Which is it anyway (show jumping)

blitznbobs

blitznbobs

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So I've been having lessons in jumping and I'm now v confused (but am getting the bug) in the past (distant) I was told going into the fence to sit down and 'get off' the horses shoulder so the horse can get it up (so to speak)

this week I had a lesson with one teacher on a school master who had me going into a fence in a forward seat... then I had a lesson with a pro who again told (i.e. Yelled, screamed and swore at me) to sit back into the fence... I'm now confused and getting contradictory advice... are there any books on technique that I could read that could explain the different positions and different situations and which teacher should I listen to? Thanks

Tea and toast to those who listened
 
TBH I don't mind the swearing, in fact, I find it odd these days when they don't ... it was the norm about 15 years ago - I respond to being rollocked ... if someone is nice to me I don't tend to listen!
 
I sit up personally, I think leaning forward puts you in a more unstable position and coming over the horses shoulder prevents them from proper movement (granted more of a problem the higher you go). But thats my opinion, and people do ride differently.

What did you feel works best for you?
 
If you watch anyone at the top levels of the sport, eventing or showjumping, they nearly always sit up 3 strides out, and keep in a forward seat the rest of the time. If it's good enough for Michael Jung, it's good enough for me.
 
Depends on the horse. I had two competing BE at the same time. On one my mantra was 'sit down sit down sit down' and on the other 'stay over your feet, don't sit down,stay over your feet, don't sit down'. Neither would jump if I got it wrong. I just had to remember which software to load before I jumped which horse!

Some horses jump better if you stay off their backs. I got the key to one of mine who jumped better this way from a demonstration by Mark Phillips. A forward seat also makes it more difficult to transmit negative signals to the horse.

Go with whichever gets your horse jumping better.
 
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I was trained and teach to sit up on the approach as if you go forward too soon, your weight puts the horse on the forehand and harder to take off. Also he could refuse and you go flying off, the only time we stay forward is in practice where we canter round the school in jumping position. I say sit up but with the intention to lean forward as he takes off.
 
ycbm said:
Depends on the horse. I had two competing BE at the same time. On one my mantra was 'sit down sit down sit down' and on the other 'stay over your feet, don't sit down,stay over your feet, don't sit down'. Neither would jump if I got it wrong. I just had to remember which software to load before I jumped which horse!

Some horses jump better if you stay off their backs. I got the key to one of mine who jumped better this way from a demonstration by Mark Phillips. A forward seat also makes it more difficult to transmit negative signals to the horse.

Go with whichever gets your horse jumping better.
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Ahh that might explain it - I was riding two different horses, the first belonged to the teacher the second was my young horse... I personally prefer sitting down in the saddle (but I am a dressage rider primarily) therefore this may just be what I'm used to...
 
To clarify, a three point seat does not always mean forward seat and I used the wrong term. It is only dangerous of you are riding too long, do not have your thigh in front of you, and can't 'look at the fence with the sole of your boot', which stabilizes the lower leg.

It easy very interesting at the Mark Phillips demo I attended. There was one horse being restricted by the seat of its rider and he kept on and on at her to right light when she did, the horse rounded beautifully. When she didn't, it flattened and ran. But she kept ignoring him, and members of the audience, ignoring what was going on in front of their own eyes, argued with him about 'weighting the horses shoulders'.

It was the making of one of my horses jumping career to ride light.
 
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I was taught to stay on a light seat all the time and don't actually 'fold' at all as it can thrown the horse off balance. One horse I learnt on would stop dead if you changed anything on the approach to a fence so I learn very quickly not too!

As a result my lower leg jumping is much more secure than at any other time! I can see the benefits of sitting up on some horses though so I guess it's whatever suits you and your horse :)
 
Tyssandi said:
I was trained and teach to sit up on the approach as if you go forward too soon, your weight puts the horse on the forehand and harder to take off. Also he could refuse and you go flying off, the only time we stay forward is in practice where we canter round the school in jumping position. I say sit up but with the intention to lean forward as he takes off.
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Same here ^
 
If you are in balance over your feet, then your weight is no further forward in light seat than sat down.
 
Your shoulder must never be further forward than your knee but the amount it's behind the knee depends on lots of things .
 
It's whatever feels best for you, there's no best way. I personally find going round in two point awkward and I don't think it sets the horse up right. A lot of the time I rise to the canter in between fences and then sit down a few strides out.
 
MouseInLux said:
If I don't sit down until takeoff my pony will stop. My previous liked a light seat the whole ride...
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Try having two at the same time like that :D

If I loaded the wrong control software, it was a disaster. If I sat on the stand one, he refused when normally he would jump whatever he was pointed at. If I stood on the sit one, he bolted and once almost bounced a treble at 1m 10 and I only just stopped him jumping the ropes into the spectators!
 
Really dependent on the horse and also which method you are happiest with.

If you look at riders from the USA, they tend to ride lighter and softer than European trained riders.
It works well for them and obviously the horses are trained like that from the get go so comfortable with it. It wouldn't be my preferred method as I prefer sitting up and feeling the horse more in front of me but I am happy to be lighter between fences, just not to that extreme and not on approach to the fence.

I would caution against using 2 trainers with very different expectations though as you will likely just end up confusing yourself and your horse!
 
millitiger said:
Really dependent on the horse and also which method you are happiest with.

If you look at riders from the USA, they tend to ride lighter and softer than European trained riders.
It works well for them and obviously the horses are trained like that from the get go so comfortable with it. It wouldn't be my preferred method as I prefer sitting up and feeling the horse more in front of me but I am happy to be lighter between fences, just not to that extreme and not on approach to the fence.

I would caution against using 2 trainers with very different expectations though as you will likely just end up confusing yourself and your horse!
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Yes the only reason I went to 2 different trainers was I wanted to ride the first ones horse... I hadn't jumped in 15 years and wanted to jump an 'old hand' rather than my inexperienced girl... she's taking to it like a pro but I still need to aquire some nerve which I seem to have misplaced at the moment!
 
Really depends on your horse! I'm basically having to re-learn how to jump at the moment because Henry is so different from Rosie! I look like a right idiot, I'm just lucky he's so honest, I'd just go with whatever suits your horse best, if your horse is happy and jumping well then go with whatever you're doing then and don't listen to what other people say.
 
Like everyone has said it really depends on the horse. I was always taught to sit for the last few strides to help drive forward and keep secure. But my new trainer has made me get into a light seat the whole way into the jump and drive with my legs instead. Its because though my horse's weak point is his hocks, so by staying in a light seat I'm enabling him to be able to get his hocks more successfully under him and use them to jump better. Its definitely worked and we are jumping better than ever! Took a while to get used to not sitting deep in the saddle before the jump though! Found it very strange the first few times and ached the next day as my muscles weren't used to staying light the whole time!
 
I understood you should sit up until the horse takes off, then fold.
Did the instuctor explain why they wanted you in a forward seat? Were they perhaps working on something else (like your balance in a forward seat) and knew their schoolmaster wasn't going to dump you at the fence? But didn't expect you to do this all the time on all horses?
 
It's not safer if it makes the horse stop.

A forward seat is not 'leaning forward', if it was you would tip out of balance. You should balanced over your feet just as much as if you are sitting in the saddle.
 
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