Which is the better dressage saddle Fairfax or Bates Isabell

[MellissaGJ]

Hi there,

I have a really big moving 17.2hh Belgian Warmblood who takes a wide fit saddle.

I have just started BD, having showjumped all my life. We are getting some good results now, and I am looking for a new saddle.

I have a 17” Bates Isabell that previously pushed me forward. It has been converted to flocking so that is now sorted and I am sitting where I should be. I am just getting used to gradually lengthening my stirrups, but I note I am having difficulty keeping my legs back in the Isabell. If I try to have my stirrups longer (which would probably fix that), I find I put all my weight toward onto my knees and feel a bit unbalanced. I cannot do work without stirrups as my lovely horse is so bouncy!

I was looking at a saddle with bigger external blocks and like the look of the fairfax Gareth. I want an adjustable saddle as well.

Do any of you have experience in riding in these saddles- is the fairfax more secure?


Thank you

 

[j1ffy]

I think it's impossible for anyone on a forum to tell you - saddles are very personal to horse and rider. @sbloom on here specialises in saddle fit from a human biomechanics perspective as well as from the horse's perspective and I'm sure she'll weigh in at some point!

Personally I don't get on with either the Bates or Fairfax dressage saddles (though I do get on with Fairfax jump saddles). I had a Bliss saddle that I loved on one horse but felt it put me in the wrong position on my other horse. There are so many variables and the key is to find a saddler who stocks a wide range so you can try a few.

 

[MellissaGJ]

Thanks for the reply. I just wondered what people’s experiences are

King regards

 

[sbloom]

If you rely on blocks to keep the leg back then you're in tension and there's torque on the lower back and hips, I know we see it everywhere, but it's really dysfunctional. Your leg goes out/forwards because of the basic structure of the saddle, your horse's ribcage, and how they interact with the shape of your pelvis and how your hips hang. The Fairfax is likely to have the same issue or possibly worse, they're not known for being particularly good at putting you over your feet. You MIGHT tip forwards less as there may be more support, but overall it's unlikely to be better. It sounds like you need more width or height under your pubic arch (as only your knees are supporting you right now) and less bulk under your upper thigh (often down to the construction of the saddle).

You can tell so far it's VERY individual, and what feels secure is too, however so many people think a deep seat and bigger blocks will make them feel secure but the ultimate is a saddle that supports your pelvis in neutral, without discomfort, and allows your leg to drop underneath you.

If you can find a fitter who really understands rider fit, and ideally analyses you off horse including imprinting your pelvis, that's a great place to start.

Oh and changeable headplates - most of them are narrow in the head, ie the top of the pommel, which isn't my way of fitting (doesn't give as much space for spinal processes or the muscling around the wither), they can feel fairly rigid to horse and rider and you don't have the choice of tree shape. Wherever possible I'd advise a wooden tree and a good shim pad like Mattes if you're facing seasonal change, buying and selling second hand if it's a young horse or rehab horse.

 

[silv]

About 15 years ago here everyone had a Bates Isobel, they were the in thing. I absolutely hatedmine they were notorious for tipping riders forward, it is something to do with the placement of the stirrup bar. Even an excellent saddle fitter said this. I totally get what you say about the weight onto your knees it was the same with me. I sold it and got an an Ideal which improved my dressage scores no end, I could actually sit properly. No idea what you should buy but if you are not happy with it get rid!

 

[MellissaGJ]

I tried a friends leather thorowgood dressage tonight, apparently they gave the same tree as the fairfax. It fitted my horse really well- although the Bates is much more supportive.

Interesting comments about the tipping forwards- it’s not just me then. To fair though I had it converted to flock and that has fixed the problem.

Going to go for the Fairfax- if anyone has actually ridden in one I would be grateful to know if you found it secure. The Isabell is really secure

 

[MellissaGJ]

If you rely on blocks to keep the leg back then you're in tension and there's torque on the lower back and hips, I know we see it everywhere, but it's really dysfunctional. Your leg goes out/forwards because of the basic structure of the saddle, your horse's ribcage, and how they interact with the shape of your pelvis and how your hips hang. The Fairfax is likely to have the same issue or possibly worse, they're not known for being particularly good at putting you over your feet. You MIGHT tip forwards less as there may be more support, but overall it's unlikely to be better. It sounds like you need more width or height under your pubic arch (as only your knees are supporting you right now) and less bulk under your upper thigh (often down to the construction of the saddle).

You can tell so far it's VERY individual, and what feels secure is too, however so many people think a deep seat and bigger blocks will make them feel secure but the ultimate is a saddle that supports your pelvis in neutral, without discomfort, and allows your leg to drop underneath you.

If you can find a fitter who really understands rider fit, and ideally analyses you off horse including imprinting your pelvis, that's a great place to start.

Oh and changeable headplates - most of them are narrow in the head, ie the top of the pommel, which isn't my way of fitting (doesn't give as much space for spinal processes or the muscling around the wither), they can feel fairly rigid to horse and rider and you don't have the choice of tree shape. Wherever possible I'd advise a wooden tree and a good shim pad like Mattes if you're facing seasonal change, buying and selling second hand if it's a young horse or rehab horse.

Thanks for the reply. The conversion to flock with more flock at the front in my Isobel fixed the tipping forward, as fairfax are Flocked hopefully there is some adjustment

 

[sbloom]

I'm talking about your saying that a long stirrup still leaves you tipping forwards, with your weight going onto your knees. If the seat fitted you this would not happen though don't strive for long stirrups, your leg must wrap around each ribcage differently, a wide ribcage generally needing a shorter stirrup. We need compression in our joints to be truly functional.

Are there no other options than these two? Be very critical about how the Fairfax sits you, TG and K&M, also built on the same trees, are notorious for tipping people forwards, more so than Bates, and they have quite a rearward balance point which means getting over your feet is harder.

 

[Bernster]

I’ve got a fairfax dressage which I do like. As I’m short, the knee blocks tend to be a bit big for me, and they are in the Fairfax, but it works ok. I’m with sbloom though, when I started in a dressage saddle I liked the security of large knee rolls and a deep seated saddle but actually I rode better and was more comfortable with smaller knee blocks and less ‘structure’ around me. That was in a Nick dolman saddle with adjustable blocks, but that doesn’t fit my horse any more.