Which magnetic stable wraps?!

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perryhillbay

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So, I get my birthday money, and off I go to get the magnetic wraps I want for my horse - the Bioflow Magnetic Stable Wraps. Turns out, they don't make them anymore!! Nooooooo!

So, now which ones do I get? I don't want ones that are "proper boots" as they are for overnight use and I don't want her in tight boots all night like the veredus ones or the Bioflow brushing boots. I have looked at the Premier Equine ones but they look like they would be really hot as the liner is a wadding-type affair. The Equilibrium ones I have heard from more than one source have magnets that will break/crumble.

What would you all recommend?
 
And since when has my horse understood the placebo effect anyway? Her legs swell at night, she wears magnetic boot borrowed from a friend, legs don't swell... It doesn't have to be about science, for me it's about my horse's welfare. If I think they work that it my prerogative. Why do people on here always to have criticise other people's choices that they make for their animals? I'm only asking for opinions on which brand to buy, not a debate on the pros and cons of them!
 
Magnets do work ans there is plenty of evidence to support this. I first used magnets on my elderly dog many years ago and with the magnet his arthritis improved nut if we forgot to put it on it would deteriorate rapidly! Now, tell me if I'm wrong, but a placebo effect does not work on an animal!! I have the equilibrium stable wraps and the versed us ones. The equilibrium wraps were cheaper but the magnets have snapped and the fabric thins and wears away, have lasted about 3 years used every day. The versed us stable boots are quite expensive but they are fantastic. Impossible to over tighten, hear wearing and have an inner liner that you can wash, highly recommended.
 
perryhillbay said:
And since when has my horse understood the placebo effect anyway? Her legs swell at night, she wears magnetic boot borrowed from a friend, legs don't swell... It doesn't have to be about science, for me it's about my horse's welfare. If I think they work that it my prerogative. Why do people on here always to have criticise other people's choices that they make for their animals? I'm only asking for opinions on which brand to buy, not a debate on the pros and cons of them!
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No need to bite her head off. You post something on a forum, you're going to get opinions/debate.

Incidentally - have you tried non magnetic wraps/bandages overnight. They seem to do a pretty effective job of stopping legs filling too...just saying
 
Google "brod pod" and these people are the people who sold Bioflow and then invented Brod which is actually a more powerful magnet than Bioflow - we met them at a horse trials so I got a magnetic bracelet from them.
They are not magnetic boots - just wraps about 4 inches wide. I put them on my horse at night as she has arthritis in her fetlock - if I don't put them on the fetlock swells up - if I put them on it doesn't - it can't be the fact that it is bandages stopping the swelling as they are not bandages, so I do think there is some truth in them working....
 
I have premiere equine stable wraps and the magnetic liners that go into them as well, theyre great.
I also have great magnetic hock boots that really helped my arthritic mare, cant mind who makes them though sorry
 
I've also got premier equine ones - they have done a good job on my boy :):) just a tip though - they dont sell the neoprene outer wraps separately so if you leave them on for several hours, make sure they don't slip down so your horse treads on them :mad:
 
I've got the premier equine non magnetic stable wraps (the ones with thick lining) My boys back legs dont fill with them on and they don't seem to get too hot Much cheaper than veredus too!
 
perryhillbay said:
Why do people on here always to have criticise other people's choices that they make for their animals? I'm only asking for opinions on which brand to buy, not a debate on the pros and cons of them!
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Where did I criticise your choice please? I could have answered 'it doesn't matter' or 'whatever is cheapest' but in my experience on here some people don't actually have much of an understanding of how products like this work, or don't work. Interesting discussion, no?

islandspirit said:
Magnets do work ans there is plenty of evidence to support this.
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No evidence carried out from proper scientific studies. Although carrying out true 'blind' studies of magnetic therapy products is difficult, there is no evidence to show that magnetic products have any positive medical effects.

There have also been a number of legal cases where producers/sellers of magnetic 'therapy' products have had to admit there is no evidence of efficacy and that they have made false advertising claims.

Taken from Professor Finegold's article in the British Medical Journal

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. If there is any healing effect of magnets, it is apparently small since published research, both theoretical and experimental, is weighted heavily against any therapeutic benefit. Patients should be advised that magnet therapy has no proved benefits. If they insist on using a magnetic device they could be advised to buy the cheapest—this will at least alleviate the pain in their wallet.
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Now, tell me if I'm wrong, but a placebo effect does not work on an animal!!
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Proper placebo effect, no. However, look at conditioning theory, expectancy theory, human contact (inducing placebo effects in the owner... They will all give answers if you take the time to read them.

McMillan, FD. The Placebo Effect in Animals. J Am Vet Med Assoc 1999; 215(7): 992-9.
Pavlov, IP. Conditioned Reflexes. London: Oxford Press, 1927. 23–78.
Voudouris, NJ, Peck, CL, Coleman, G. Conditioned placebo responses. J Pers Soc Psychol 1985; 48: 47-53.
Gantt, WH, Newton, JO, Royer, FL, et al. Effect of person. Conditional Reflex 1966; 1: 18-35.
Lynch, B. Heart rate changes in the horse to human contact. Psychophysiology 1974; 11: 472-478.
Wilson, DV, Berney, CE, Peroni, DL, et al. The effects of a single acupuncture treatment in horses with severe recurrent airway obstruction. Equine Vet J 2004; 36(6): 489-94.

A quote I was 'given' fairly recently, and always useful in threads like this; 'the plural of anecdotes is not data.'

If you want data,

Magnet therapy does not alter blood flow:
Mayrovitz HN and others. Assessment of the short-term effects of a permanent magnet on normal skin blood circulation via laser-Doppler flowmetry. Scientific Review of Alternative Medicine 6(1):9-12, 2002]
Martel GF, Andrews SC, Roseboom CG. Comparison of static and placebo magnets on resting forearm blood flow in young, healthy men. J Orthop Sports Phys Ther. 2002;32:518-524.

Magnetic therapy is not pain relieving:
Pittler MH, Brown EM, Ernst E. Static magnets for reducing pain: systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized trials. CMAJ. 2007;177:736-742.
 
Auslander said:
No need to bite her head off. You post something on a forum, you're going to get opinions/debate.

Agreed. Rhinos scientist brain needs to see research based evidence, thats her view and i cant see any big issue with sharing it personally.:)
Myself on the otherhand am happy with anecdotal evidence with them, i see the difference theyve made to my old arthritic girlie so i use them.
To each there own, but we're all entitled to our opinions :D
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The problem with a medical double blind test is that it is viewed from a scientific perspective and whilst we know a vast amount more than we did a hundred years ago about how the human body works not everything can be truly explained. Accunpuncture is now widely accepted as having a place as a complementary medicine along side more prescrition medicines but the was a time when this was considered hocus pocus! Who really knows if in 10, 20 or a hundred years time, someone making their ways through horse and hound archives will come across this thread and laugh at our ignorance. Just because a therapy is considered alternative does not mean that it does not have a place even without data baking it up. I am a well educated, not as young as I would like to be, level headed individual who has worked in the pharmaceutical industry where I met many medical professionals including well respected consultants whose minds were open to alternative therapies and natural subatsnces being used in conjunction with main stream medical practices because they knew that science cannot at this time explain everything. I had a friend many years ago who was reiki trained, not my thing but my middle son broke his arm when he was 18 months old, snapped it in two infact, just above the elbow and the friend offered to use reiki on him which I accepted as I felt it couldn't do any harm. Unknown to me, a girl of the same age did the same thing at around the same time and both children were in hospital to have their k wires out on the same day. Whilst the two children came around from the anaesthetic the consultant came to me to say he hadn't seen an arm heal as well as my sons and was very interested to hear that my son had been treated with reiki. When the two children came back to the ward the difference was very apparent. The girls arm was black and blue and my sons arm was completely normal apart from 4 tiny holes from the wires. Now you could argue that this result would have occurred without the reiki, that I will never know but it did open my eyes to the possibility that there are things that we do not understand and that do work even though at this point in time there is no scientific evidence to support it.
 
i tried the magnetic and non magnetic boots on my tb because he used to fill at night, and they worked exactly the same, i also used to use bandages and pads and they worked the same. i bought veredus stable boots for ease of fitting and also i would trust other people to put them on him whereas i would not trust anyone else to bandage as im very nervous of bandages if theyre not spot on.:)
 
Working in the industry you do, surely you realise that when there is proof of it working, it moves from 'alternative medicine' to medicine. If you don't believe in evidence based medicine, fine, but blind testing is not a new concept... And the power of the placebo is huge!

And yes, another anecdote :confused: We are not talking about no evidence to support magnets, we are talking about lots of evidence proving it has no efficacy. Huge difference!

If people want to spend their money on disproven 'treatments' then fine, but surely it is better to at least have an understanding of the research so they can make an educated decision?
 
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I use the premier equine magnetic wraps and they fit well and don't rub, keep her white legs clean and IF it works who knows, but hey it wont do any harm so worth a try! IMO
 
islandspirit said:
not everything can be truly explained.
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Too true. Lots of things can be observed but not explained. Not the same of something which cannot either be observed in a controlled environment nor explained!

islandspirit said:
Who really knows if in 10, 20 or a hundred years time, someone making their ways through horse and hound archives will come across this thread and laugh at our ignorance.
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Sure. Maybe they'll have proved the existence of unicorns too :cool:

islandspirit said:
Just because a therapy is considered alternative does not mean that it does not have a place even without data baking it up.
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I do believe that would make it conventional medicine ;)

islandspirit said:
I am a well educated, not as young as I would like to be, level headed individual who has worked in the pharmaceutical industry where I met many medical professionals including well respected consultants whose minds were open to alternative therapies and natural subatsnces being used in conjunction with main stream medical practices because they knew that science cannot at this time explain everything.
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Indeed, there's always a wealth of different opinions in any body of people - however educated they are. I don't see how people believing in alternative therapies in general or natural substances is relevant - any pharmacologist knows that most drugs mimic natural substances - and that natural substances can have an observable, statistically significant effect on biological systems. It's a massive leap from there to believing in magnetic therapy which has been repeatedly shown not to outperform a placebo.

As for your story - that's a cute little anecdote. Absolutely meaningless, in the context of debate, though.

However, as you say, it's your horse and your money. Knock yourself out :) No need to be aggressive towards the voice of scientific reason on an open forum, though :D
 
Ive used Premier equine magnetic boots on mine and I must say they have worked! My boy had a lump on the front of his leg unchanged since healing after a collision with a fence 4/5 months prior. Used the boots and after 3 or 4 sessions the swelling had noticeably reduced. Kept using them and now the lump is as small as it will get as the reduction in size of lump has revealed that he has done similar to a splint but on the front of his leg - probably a poor explanation but pretty much what the vet said and not to worry as he had never been lame on it. Whether it was the compression from the boot - although they are a wrap style and not applied particularly tightly - or the magnets I couldn't say! but nothing else in his routine/lifestyle had changed.

Similarly I am seeing great results after using my activo-med combi pro rug on 2 horses, but again whether thats the massage or the pulsed magnetic field I couldn't say as I generally use combined therapy sessions pre and post riding.

I really like my PE magnetic boots, however I haven't used them over night yet on anything so couldn't say how well they would stay put (they also say build up time to max 12 hours use per day), and I can also imagine they would be rather warm so perhaps good for winter but not so much use if you stable and use them overnight in summer? :)
 
JFTD said:
Too true. Lots of things can be observed but not explained. Not the same of something which cannot either be observed in a controlled environment nor explained!



Sure. Maybe they'll have proved the existence of unicorns too :cool:



I do believe that would make it conventional medicine ;)



Indeed, there's always a wealth of different opinions in any body of people - however educated they are. I don't see how people believing in alternative therapies in general or natural substances is relevant - any pharmacologist knows that most drugs mimic natural substances - and that natural substances can have an observable, statistically significant effect on biological systems. It's a massive leap from there to believing in magnetic therapy which has been repeatedly shown not to outperform a placebo.

As for your story - that's a cute little anecdote. Absolutely meaningless, in the context of debate, though.

However, as you say, it's your horse and your money. Knock yourself out :) No need to be aggressive towards the voice of scientific reason on an open forum, though :D
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And i would say you dont need to be as sarcastic to the people who have views that differ from yours
 
marydoll said:
Auslander said:
No need to bite her head off. You post something on a forum, you're going to get opinions/debate.

Agreed. Rhinos scientist brain needs to see research based evidence, thats her view and i cant see any big issue with sharing it personally.:)
Myself on the otherhand am happy with anecdotal evidence with them, i see the difference theyve made to my old arthritic girlie so i use them.
To each there own, but we're all entitled to our opinions :D
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A perfectly reasonable response - and I wouldn't have had the slightest problem with the OP, had she phrased her response to Rhino along similar lines.
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marydoll said:
And i would say you dont need to be as sarcastic to the people who have views that differ from yours
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I couldn't care less about her views - I care about her attempts to justify them by abusing the history of science and the illogicality of lumping magnetic therapy with natural substances. I also object to her attitude towards rhino's very reasonable initial response. The tone of my post reflects the OP's attitude, not her views.
 
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