Which one? Dually or Be Nice?

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chotty

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My lwvtb 6 year old Arab x has had little to no boundaries instilled before I got him. He's okay around 60-70% of the time to handle, but other times he's bargy, will drag me or is very very spooky.

His field is on the other side of a busy and fast road to the yard so I sometimes have a problem bringing him over when he's a little 'fresh' or is determined to not listen to me. I can't always tell what mood he's in til I've got him out of the gate where sometimes I'm literally being dragged over the carpark and bashed through gates onto the yard.

He's fine with the actual road, will stand til I've looked that it's clear to cross and will walk nicely over, but the carpark on the other side before the main yard gate is our problem. He knows he's going to his stable so will get in front of me and just pull. Queue me trying to back him up or circle him (all in normal head collar). This sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. On other occasions, especially in the wind, he's very spooky and will jog with his head in the air the whole way in. If he spooks he has no respect for me being on the ground and will basically jump onto me.

My main fear is me losing control over him and not being able to hold onto him and him getting onto the road and being hit by a car.

Friend of mine does intelligent horsemanship with all of hers and came down to show me her Dually on him. He responded well to it and I did like the feeling I had more control and could use it to do a lot more groundwork with him. However, another lady at my yard who has a big spanish horse uses a Be Nice halter. She told me that her horse used to drag her all over and do huge spooks which have been downsized dramatically since using the Be Nice.

So my question is, what are people's experiences with either halter? And what one do you recommend for my situation? I've heard mixed reviews on each.

He doesn't really respect the normal head collar and I would really like to just feel that both him and I are safe coming over that road/carpark.

Sorry for the hugely lost post yet again! Tea and shortbread for those who got to the end :)

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I think you will probably get equal amounts of recommendations for both of the head collars - and probably for a few different ones as well. If he responded well to the Dually and you liked it, then I would say go for that one. I have the Dually for my cob who used to drag me everywhere (especially in the winter when he was hungry). It worked well with him, and I only need to use it every so often now when he forgets his manners!
 
I have a home bred arab, who was a bit naughty as a youngster for occassionally trying to drag me about. I got a Be Nice and it worked great. First few times he needed a good tug on the rope to remind him of his mannners, after that you just needed to put the halter on him and he wouldn't even try to tank off. Haven't had to use it for a few years now.
 
I tried both of them and came away preferring the dually for a number of reasons:

1. I found the dually much easier to fit. It just slips on like a normal headcollar, unlike the Be Nice which I had to mess about with. Also, the way the livery I am on works means that other liveries often have to handle him, so this is much simpler for them. Equally, should an emergency every arise (for example, if I was injured/knocked unconcious at a show), my non-horsey father who drives me to places could put this on easily.

2. You cannot tie up in a Be Nice, but you can in a dually because you can remove the 'pressure' part by clipping to the normal headcollar ring. This saves a lot of messing around when bringing in to tie up and wash legs/groom/whatever you need to do.

3. Equally, when I found my boy was behaving I could remove the clip from the dually part onto the normal headcollar part, removing pressure that wasn't necessary. You can't do this with a Be Nice. Nowadays, I actually usually lead him out in the normal headcollar part, switching over if I feel it might become necessary.

4. I found that you can apply pressure in a proactive manner with the dually, meanwhile the Be Nice you seem to have to wait for them to do something before pressure will be applied. My boy has a warning sign that he is going to do something and these days I can apply pressure at that moment and stop it before it happens.

I still use the dually as a precaution, but hardly ever need it now. The Be Nice seems to work ok, but the dually, in my opinion, is just that bit simpler to use.
 
Dually for me, simply because I can change the lead rope over so he can be tied up without changing head collar. Makes life easier when loading etc
 
When I first got Mollie, she didn't want to come in from the field. I could catch her and put a head collar on, but I'd get halfway down the field and she'd panic, and tank off either dragging me with her or with the rope dangling. :(

Once Mollie realised this worked, she did it every day, until I tried a Dually. It worked, and the tanking off stopped. It still took ages to bring her in, but at least we eventually reached the yard. :o

Mollie's a different horse now. When I go out to catch her she calls to me and sometimes comes running and is perfectly happy to come in. :) I still have the Dually, but I never use it.
 
Plain Rope halter, long rope and some good ground work. I would use neither of the halters you are looking at.
 
Personally I'd say if there's any potential for a road accident then you have a responsibility to ensure you are in control. Having been through all this with our horse I'd say use either your bridle or a chifney. In our experience the only thing you get from long ropes is more rope burn and I certainly wouldn't ever endanger other people by faffing about with 18 foot of cowboy carry on on the road!! Save halters for when you can do ground work safely.
 
Out of the two, the Dually. Personally though I would choose and learn to correctly use a knotted rope halter, very quick and easy to learn, and instills correct polite behaviour extremely quickly.
Bonus, much cheaper too.
 
Thankyou for all of your replies!

For those advising leading him in the bridle - he's currently ridden in a hackamore, so again it's a pressure thing. Think that's why he responded to the dually my friend used on him. He's never had a bit really as far as I know but going to try him with one as soon as my new bridle arrives.

Also, those who are saying they wouldn't use either - could you tell me why? Is it just a preference or through experience? Or just more groundwork needed?

Like I said, majority of the time he's good to handle, but i'd quite like the reassurance of some sort of 'controller' halter when it comes to where I have to take him. Tonight he was a pain to bring in. Planted in the field and then pulled all the way after that. Once in he was fine tied up, groomed and great to lead around yard doing groundwork (backing up, disengaging hindquarters and stopping when I stop) before lunging. He was also good to turn out again.

He seems to change like the wind (as some horses do) so that's why I'd quite like to try a dually/be nice as a back up for when he's not so easy...

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chotty said:
Also, what are the benefits of a knotted rope halter? I've only seen a couple of people use them and I thought they were just a rope version of a normal headcollar?

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No they provide a lot more clear and concise aids, I use one all the time on my large thoroughbred and she totally respects it. Is there anyway you can do a bit of ground work out in the field even just five or ten minutes before even bringing him in?
 
Think I've just about tried them all! I don't like natural halters particularly, I found the Dually slips round continually (and yes it was properly fitted) and I've found the Be Nice to be the most effective and not at all unkind when used properly, although it is a pain that you can't tie up with it but I leave the headcollar ready to slip over the Be Nice.
 
attheponies said:
Think I've just about tried them all! I don't like natural halters particularly, I found the Dually slips round continually (and yes it was properly fitted) and I've found the Be Nice to be the most effective and not at all unkind when used properly, although it is a pain that you can't tie up with it but I leave the headcollar ready to slip over the Be Nice.
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Being pedantic, the Be Nice and Dually are not considered 'natural' halters. It's a Monty Roberts thing.
 
I use a Parelli halter which only has knots to create the shape, no extra knots over the nose. That and a 12' line with some basic groundwork made an enormous difference within a very short time. I started a basic PNH clinic with a bolshy horse that ruled the roost!! By morning tea the difference was amazing....my confidence and his respect....that alone was worth every penny of the cost of the course!!!
 
Thankyou again for the replies! I'm going to try the rope halter to start with as can get one in the local tack shop. If it doesn't work too well then I'll think I'll invest in a dually. He's reared couple of times in hand and have heard the the Be Nice can make rearing worse due to the poll pressure?

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chotty said:
Thankyou again for the replies! I'm going to try the rope halter to start with as can get one in the local tack shop. If it doesn't work too well then I'll think I'll invest in a dually. He's reared couple of times in hand and have heard the the Be Nice can make rearing worse due to the poll pressure?

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It'll work very well if you use it properly.

I don't rate the Dually halter, except for a bit of long-reining maybe.

I work with lots of horses with issues from incorrect handling/training, and I invariably use the Be-Nice. It's incorrect use of poll pressure which causes horses to rear, not the Be-Nice halter.
 
Used a Dually on mine cos she was quite aggressive being led if she didn't feel like coming with you (pull away from you far enough to turn round and use hind legs to get away, rearing up to make you back off from her etc.). Was planning to get the be nice as well and try both, but 1 session with the Dually was suddenly like a switch had gone on in her brain and she is now fine in a regular headcollar 99% of the time. I tend not to believe miracle cure stories very often and certainly wouldn't expect it to happen like that for every horse, but for her I think it was a case of us finally having a mechanism to explain to her that leading wasn't optional and a complete attitude adjustment followed on from that.

She doesn't actually like having the Dually on particularly and can become difficult to catch if we use it all the time, but it has made a whole world of difference. Might have been a bit of a short cut to resolve an issue that could have been resolved over time with correct and consistent handling, but has saved us all a lot of pain in the process I think. Had no problems with the fit or it slipping.

We have hung on to the Dually and use it occasionally as a bit of a reminder, but the second hand market in them is very active so realistically the main cost is the postage as the rest of your investment can be recovered through selling it on when you have finished.

The reason I ordered the Dually first was that I was a bit worried about poll pressure from the be-nice with her existing rearing issues, and also that putting it on looked a bit more of a faff. I was also worried (possibly irrationally) that the be-nice wouldn't release as quickly if she was being really stupid and the situation was escalating.
 
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I used the Be Nice because my youngster had reared and then try to 'box' at me, like he thought it was a game, I think. Once he had the Be Nice on he tried this 'game' 2 more times, I gave one good hard tug on the rope each time and he never tried it again. I used it a couple more times for leading (when in 'exciting' places!) but I haven't actually used the Be Nice for several years now. Though, still have it in the cupboard, just in case!
 
I have a dually but still use a parelli style rope halter with the knots. Mine only has a couple of knots where the cheek bits join the nose band and this is plenty. (Some have an extra two over the noseband). I've used the rope halter on a very pushy cob who had no manners at all and a bigger horse (one halter in Arab/cob sized the other full size). Both responded really well. You can't tie them up with a rope halter and you can't turn them out with a dually. If I were you and you leave a headcollar on in the field is slip a rope halter under his headcollar and lead him using the rope halter. I have spent the last two months leading my big mare out in hand as part of her rehab and have used the rope halter along the roads with no worries at all. You need a training halter however and not just a conventional rope halter - which doesn't have the knots. Also be careful what its made of some are softer than others. Some are also more durable. I looked for soft marine ply.
 
AengusOg said:
I don't rate the Dually halter, except for a bit of long-reining maybe.
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I don't understand, how does one long-rein in a Dually?

I'm not a big fan of 'control' halters - I'd rather put something on and know how tight it is from the start.

I know this is easier said than done, but I reckon this needs more groundwork. How long have you had him for? I only ask because I wonder if he's still settling in and getting used to you and his new surroundings (and pushing some boudaries while he's at it!).

I'd always advocate persevering with groudwork and relationships before I try to intervene with hardware... :o
 
This probably isn't very helpful but .... Nothing substitutes good training and instilling some respect. Sounds like your horse thinks he knows best, I would suggest really stepping up your in-hand work and being super firm but fair with him.

TBH I don't rate these controller halters .... They're so expensive and promise miracles which I have never experienced having tried them on several different horses, in several different circumstances. I do like using a plain rope halter, the horses seem to have more respect for them and cannot lean on the noseband they way some can in a regular headcollar.

When I was working on a busy show jumping yard, handling big fit competition horses who could all be extremely boisterous and lively to say the least, I would lead to and from the field with a chain over the nose. This was standard practise at several places I worked at. The horses were respectful and would not pull against this.
 
Orls said:
This probably isn't very helpful but .... Nothing substitutes good training and instilling some respect.
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I agree with this...

However, I am always totally baffled by this sort of statement...

Orls said:
TBH I don't rate these controller halters .... They're so expensive and promise miracles which I have never experienced having tried them on several different horses, in several different circumstances.
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Some people can use them to great effect; some just can't. The halter is what it is.

Orls said:
When I was working on a busy show jumping yard, handling big fit competition horses who could all be extremely boisterous and lively to say the least, I would lead to and from the field with a chain over the nose. This was standard practise at several places I worked at. The horses were respectful and would not pull against this.
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Unfortunately this seems to be the accepted way on busy professional yards. Horses are very likely to behave well if they have experienced a yank from a chain over their nose.

Surely the people who work on such yards could just as easily learn to use some other, less coercive method of handling such horses. Horses which have been properly and kindly trained into a pressure halter will not pull against their handler, and there is no need for the handler to pull or yank at them.

Perhaps it is ignorance of the correct use of pressure halters, or lack of time to do things differently, or it could simply be that the 'professionals' can't bring themselves to be seen using such a 'fluffy' device?
 
chotty said:
Thankyou for all of your replies!

For those advising leading him in the bridle - he's currently ridden in a hackamore, so again it's a pressure thing. Think that's why he responded to the dually my friend used on him. He's never had a bit really as far as I know but going to try him with one as soon as my new bridle arrives.

Also, those who are saying they wouldn't use either - could you tell me why? Is it just a preference or through experience? Or just more groundwork needed?

Like I said, majority of the time he's good to handle, but i'd quite like the reassurance of some sort of 'controller' halter when it comes to where I have to take him. Tonight he was a pain to bring in. Planted in the field and then pulled all the way after that. Once in he was fine tied up, groomed and great to lead around yard doing groundwork (backing up, disengaging hindquarters and stopping when I stop) before lunging. He was also good to turn out again.

He seems to change like the wind (as some horses do) so that's why I'd quite like to try a dually/be nice as a back up for when he's not so easy...

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Why not just put the rope over his nose? (Or buy a lead with a chain and put that over his nose.) Works in exactly the same way as the dually.
 
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