Which Stallion??!

[Dillydot]

I have a lovely 7/8 TB, 1/8 Trakehner, 16.2hh, 2007, dark bay mare. Out of my Intermediate event mare Dillydotcom who had to retire due to being a mild headshaker. By Ganton Beltaine.
Her ridden career has been cut short much to my dismay as she showed a lot of promise and was more talented than her Dam.
I am in a quandry as to what to put her to, she has a sensible, brave head on her and is the epitomy of an event mare, her only fault is that she is a little long in the back and straight in the hocks. I probably would like to breed a bit more warmblood into her and was thinking of going down the cremello route and plugging for a dun!! I like something with a bit of height and after breeding a 17.3hh out of a 16.1hh mare and 16.1hh stallion I know that it is a lottery!!!
I would like something that tends to throw calm trainable temperaments with good movement and ability over a fence to go on and event.
Any ideas and links welcome as I am punch drunk looking at so many!

 

[burge]

Why was her ridden career cut short? Your post reads like it was her dam that was the headshaker?

So her ridden career was cut short, she is long in the back and straight in the hock. I would look for a nice youngster to buy then at least you know what you have got rather than the lottery of breeding. You know what they say 'Fools breed horses for wise men to buy'!

 

[Dillydot]

Why was her ridden career cut short? Your post reads like it was her dam that was the headshaker?

So her ridden career was cut short, she is long in the back and straight in the hock. I would look for a nice youngster to buy then at least you know what you have got rather than the lottery of breeding. You know what they say 'Fools breed horses for wise men to buy'!

Yes I know that quote well!! However this mare I feel is worth breeding off, I don't know whether you can see my avatar but that is her, I am being ultra critical when I say she is long in the back and straight in the hock, just meaning a stallion that is short with well let down hocks would suit her!!! But it is a lottery!
Her ridden career was cut short due to kissing spine in her withers.
Funnily enough I will also be buying a youngster later this year! But I want a foal off her because she is rather a special girl and I am sure would have gone further than her dam eventing. I might even get her graded as I am sure she would grade well!!

 

[burge]

.....so would you use a stallion that ticked all the boxes (not necessarily for your mare) that retired from a ridden career due to kissing spine?

 

[Dillydot]

.....so would you use a stallion that ticked all the boxes (not necessarily for your mare) that retired from a ridden career due to kissing spine?

Yes I would as it is not a hereditary condition... 3 in 10 competition horses would show variable severity of kissing spine when x rayed, only one of those may show any signs of the condition and need treatment, by steroid injections or surgery. I know of a few advanced event horses and dressage horses that are still competing at the same level after their treatment, including stallions, of course treatment is not always successful and some horses have to retire to breeding or a quieter life. I have taken the advice of 3specialist equine vets, all of which know my mare, all have no problem with me breeding from her in fact they have encouraged me to as she is such a good looking mare with amazing movement and jump and a career cut short too young!
I did not come on this forum to ask anyones opinion on whether I should breed off her all I wanted was some friendly advice on what stallions are producing good stock, preferably with some warmblood in them and perhaps cremello as there are a few up and coming stallions around since I bred my last 3 foals. In fact I have trolled through over 600 online and I am punch drunk!
So if anyone can steer me in the right direction I would be most grateful, make a short list and I go and meet a few.

 

[HBM1]

Some head tossing can be a sign of kissing spine, as your mare's dam was retired due to mild head shaking, I would actually be quite concerned that there was some element of heritability - if not the kissing spine itself, then perhaps in their spinal conformation. Not an issue if not breeding, but if you are, it is a hell of a lot to inflict upon a foal.

I would also be concerned as to how it may affect the mare when heavily pregnant. The strain on the spine is incredible. I know some mares with it do breed, but I would not risk it myself. I wouldn't allow my stallion to be used on a mare with it, as if it did appear in the foal, I know full well there would be too many quick to blame the stallion, rather than the dam.

 

[Bedlam]

I think that the jury is out on whether or not KS is hereditary. It certainly makes sense to me that it is as it's a basic conformational thing afterall - the DSPs are too close together? I'm not sure why vets are so quick to suggest putting just anything in foal. I was amazed that it was suggested to me as an option for a 15.2 mare that I had who had KS, tied up repeatedly and then started showing signs of navicular........

Getting your mare graded would be a good idea before considering stallions if you're really keen on it though. At least then she will have been assessed by a panel of experts and you will have an unbiased view of her good and bad points. In my experience (SHB(GB)) the graders all had an opinion of what would suit my mare and spent ages afterwards discussing various stallions with me - it was very interesting and useful.

Sorry, OP, that you're not getting the response that you were after but there are a huge number of young horses going for peanuts at the moment as the market is so dire. It would be much, much cheaper to buy something that you want rather than to try to create something from a mare with issues. Add on to that the fact that you want to use a cremello to get a certain colour and it's not surprising that the folks in here start to think it's a bad idea.......?

 

[Maesfen]

While I agree with everyone else here who have answered and wouldn't risk it myself for the health of the mare, if you are dead set on it then look at Electrum. http://www.electrum-cremello-tb-uk.com/

 

[seabsicuit2]

God people are so quick to judge/condemn :-(

To the original poster- what about Legrande? He is a stunning dun/cream, lovely easygoing temperament, is a great performer & has good foals

 

[HBM1]

I do not think anyone has been at all judgemental or condemning, merely offering an opinion - this is a public forum after all is it not?

There is no obligation on the OP to listen.

 

[seabsicuit2]

Yes but how can anyone offer an opinion when you can't possibly know the full story ?

Head shaking can be caused by something very simple like a damaged nerve in the nose. As for the kissing spine -nearly every horse X-rays with close vertebrate, in fact 80% do, then it only takes one trauma , illness or accident,or wrong way of training and it becomes a problem.

 

[HBM1]

But we will never know the absolute full history of any horse on here. When I mentioned the head shaking, it was merely to say that there "could" be a potential for a foal to have a problem if the dam's mother and the dam have had KS or potential symptoms of it. People will always make up their own minds, no one on here has the last say on anything anyone does after all. I just mean that I would not risk it - if it were me - and I wouldn't let my stallion be used on a mare who had these symptoms. My main point in my post was that if a foal shows signs of kissing spine it is likely to be the stallion people look to as most aren't interested in the dam's issues when trying to lay blame.(I say this hypothetically as mine isn't at stud anyway).

 

[Dillydot]

Thanks Seabiscuit!!!
The dam had an inflamed nerve which flared up every now and again usually in the 1.20m SJ rounds she was jumping, so rather than put her through surgery I retired her, 3rd at Floors castle intermediate cant be bad!!! No kissing spine in her, x rays to prove it!!
I'd love all of the opinionated ones to have all your mares, foals and stallions x-rayed top to toe... If you have the perfect horse then brill but I somehow doubt any of them would be perfect, in fact there may be some hereditary defects there that you dont know about!! I'm an experienced and considerate breeder, will be keeping the foal whatever so unless your are going to stop putting the world to rights and suggest a stallion then please don't reply to this post as it becomes wearing with horse people when everyone seems to try and outdo everyone else.. Seabiscuit is right, you don't know the whole story... As for breeding for colour, haha, how many of you put your mare to a coloured homozygous to get a coloured? All I want is a healthy foal, can be pink with yellow spots for all I care... But it will be special!!!

 

[HBM1]

Perhaps you could have said you knew the reason for the dam's headshaking in your first post, then it would not have led people to wonder if there was anything hereditary going on.

I do wish people would put a comment on their original posts which state they only want people to post who will not ask any questions, and just blindly give opinions in line with the OP's, it would help a great deal and save a lot of time. Incidentally, I would hope anyone using stallions for breeding get them x-rayed. Foals, don't see the point.

Good luck whatever you breed, I personally don't care if people breed for colour or not, there are some wonderful coloured stallions around.

 

[Dillydot]

Thanks! I'm sure it will be nice!
Due to the fact I was only asking after nice warm blood stallions that were producing nice stock I didn't feel the need to explain anything about the dam or this mare, her KS was caused by a trauma... If everyone must know... She went over backwards when she was badly spooked and lost her footing on Tarmac, first vet misdiagnosed her and I was told it was nerve damage, a month off and she would be fine... She was never lame and I only got a second opinion as she stopped at a fence which was not like her... And here I am she's too good not to breed off..

 

[Bedlam]

Well OK then.

In my book you need a good percentage of blood in an eventer, and one of my top stallions has to be Mill Law. Wonderful temperament, proved himself up to advanced and has many offspring following in his footsteps and proving his worth. He's 7/8ths like your mare and would be worth a look.

If a warmblood is definitely what you are after, then how about Catherston Dazzler? Frozen still available I believe.

 

[Dillydot]

Thanks Bedlam!
She's very much a blood type herself and I feel she would benefit from a bit of warm blood in her... I do like Mill Law and know a lot by him... Used Bazaars Exclusive in the past too, just wanted to breed more of a dual purpose type as I'm not getting any younger and I might not get back up all the levels eventing!!! Like I say it is not being bred to be sold!!! This mare is the best horse I've owned just unfortunate events means she's not going to fulfil her potential!

 

[Oscar]

Magician looks promising
http://www.shovernstud.co.uk/magician.shtml

And McJonnas has stock out there working under saddle and he throws big
http://www.solaris-sport-horses.co.uk/cremello_warmblood_stallion.shtml

 

[Dillydot]

This is the mare, will post a video over a fence too, about 2 weeks before her accident!

 

[Dillydot]

Didn't work!!! It's on YouTube under the name dillydot82. Called Dillight!

 

[Wisnette]

I'm guessing if you were at Floors you're either in Scotland or Northern. What about Up With The Lark?

http://www.stanleygrangestud.com/upwiththelark.htm

 

[amy_b]

Treliver Decanter. His oldest are just coming out, saw a fab palomino (decanterxTb) with Sam Griffiths. (Decanters Frankie) was stunning as we tom to win his section.
Have met him a few times and can't find a fault with him.
I have a decanter blob cooking to my TB mare at the moment to make an eventer!! Due May, very excited!! I have ordered a palomino filly with lots of white.

 

[Lgd]

Would second Decanter, super temperament.

I got a cracking event foal last year by a young coloured stallion call Spyder who stands at Holdenfold in Lancashire (not homozygous). Mum is Orlov x TB/Connemara with a huge pop, although I dressaged her to PSG level. She is a bit straight behind and a touch longer than average. Quite chunky so I wanted to refine to put more speed in. She is only 15.2hh, stallion 16.2hh and the foal is huge (standing around 14.2hh at 10 months) very leggy and elegant, very correct in his conformation, very uphill, bold, loves to jump (over our arena boards!) and play in puddles. Very sweet natured. Bay roan but greying out (damn). Got a very good First premium at the Futurity last year despite being a bit flumpy in the heat and not showing at his best. I took a punt as stallion was first season and am delighted with the result. Mare has been retired from breeding or I would certainly consider a repeat of the cross.

 

[emlybob]

If you are looking for a double dilute, how about Crowns Wonder Pearl or Dunhill Desert Storm? Both sand at Brackenspa stud in Lincolnshire

 

[KatB]

Would also look at Legrande. When my mare has a baby, he is right at the top of the list, and she is similar in confo to your mare.

 

[Dillydot]

Legrande is very much on my radar!! Also looking at don aqui, dark de Niro and grafenstolz!! Anyone any views on them?!