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severnmiles

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Of DDA, I had a quick look at the DWAA, I always thought wolf hybrids are illegal unless you have a DWAA in this country, after contacting Defra it turns out only pure wolves and 1st crosses are illegal without DWAA licences which makes Saarloos and Czech wolfdogs perfectly legal, personally I think this should be, especially as every GSD in this country has a percentage of wolf blood in it which was introduced less than a hundred years ago. And Saarloos haven't caused trouble in Germany, Netherlands, Belgium e.t.c having been around since the 1930's.
 
I'm afraid that GSD have no more wolf blood in them than any other breed ! - they originate from the same genetic stock as the Belgian and Dutch Shepherd dogs and are part of the European family of herding breeds. Each country then refined their particular type of shepherd dog and the differences between the varieties beame sufficiantly pronounced to separate them into their separate breeds. Although all three breeds are wolf like in looks and movement - and a grey Tervueren ( Belgian Shepherd Dog) looks amazingly like a wolf ! - they are essentially no more related to wolves than a pug or a poodle !.
 
Milor, I think you'll find to increase the gene pool wolves were added less than a hundred years ago. Its interesting when people only have half the facts.
 
Where are you getting your information from ? ...the modern day GSD is derived from the vision and dedication of one man, and his dogs were interbred to fix the ideal 'type' that he wanted .... no wolves were ever used !
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"......At this time Capt. Max von Stephanitz appears in the breed’s history and indeed it is this man who is acclaimed as the father of the breed. Von Stephanitz had long admired the qualities of intelligence, strength, and ability found in many native sheepdog breeds but had yet to see one which embodied all of his ideals. Chance was to play its part, and while visiting a show with a friend in 1899, he saw a dog that impressed him greatly to all accounts so much that then and there he purchased the dog and promptly formed a society, the Verein fur deutsche Schaferhunde or SV as it is called. This was a milestone in the breed’s history and marked the beginning of a new era for it. From this date the German Shepherd as a specific breed had arrived. "

"The degree of inbreeding was necessarily high at this time, for although it carried risks of incorporating faults, it likewise enabled the breeders to fix permanently those qualities which today are such features of the breed. Von Stephanitz believed above all else that the German Shepherd should be bred for utility and intelligence and this was to become his motto. It was this adaptability that was later to make the dog the world’s greatest all-rounder. "
 
Interisting, had always thought any pecentage of wolf made the dog illegal.
Have to say, I was brought up to think of hybrids as dangerous time bombs, that has been completly exploded in the past 12 months for me!
 
You will not believe how many searches I have done to find this...

"It was in 1899 that von Stephanitz established the Verein fur Deutsche Schaferhund, SV, German Shepherd Dog Club. It was then that von Stephanitz wanted to improve the breed, not yet known as the German Shepherd Dog, he wanted to create an intelligent, loyal, working breed and used a cross with wolves to improve the breed. The wolf blood was later drained out leaving the German Shepherd Dog.

At the end of the War it was thought that the breed would not flourish were the word German to appear in its name and it was therefore decided to call the breed the Alsatian Wolf Dog.

By 1930, Netherlands Leendert Saarloos began a breeding program copying that of von Stephanitz that crossed the German Shepherd dog to wolves, producing the Saarloos wolfhond."
 
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Interisting, had always thought any pecentage of wolf made the dog illegal.
Have to say, I was brought up to think of hybrids as dangerous time bombs, that has been completly exploded in the past 12 months for me!

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I always thought any percentage was illegal too unless you held a DWAA licence but Defra said its only pure wolves (can't think why anyone would want one of those) and 1st crosses.

What has been completely exploded in the past 12 months?
 
The myth that anything with some wolf in it will at some point kill.
A guildy friend had one(died of heart failure a couple of months ago age nine) that was THE most soppy thing on the planet.Couldnt have asked for a better nature from any dog, always happy to be with people/dogs and never showed the slightest sign of agression.
Of course, he was with a responsable owner so was not left alone with owners children and had been very well socalised and trained from day one.He was (if I remember right) about 60 % wolf and the rest GSD/BSD types.
That was in America not here, and he had no problem buying the dog or with keeping it.
 

"used a cross with wolves to improve the breed. The wolf blood was later drained out leaving the German Shepherd Dog."


sorry to be pedantic but this is simply not true ! - at no point did Stephanitz cross the GSD with a wolf and then 'drain the blood out ' - not sure where you got this information from but believe me it's not correct
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The Saarloos Wolfhound DOES originate from a wolf /dog hybrid but is a very different type of animal in terms of temperament and character ....being extremely timid and unsafe around smaller dogs and other animals, quite the opposite from "an intelligent, loyal worker"
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You've obviously never seen one, I'll agree with the timid thing but other than that what you say about the Saarloos (GSD x Wolf) is simply incorrect. I know of people that have a Saarloos with a yorkie and yes the yorkie bullies it. They are extremely loyal dogs though slightly harder to train than a GSD. Very friendly if a little guarded at first, great with other dogs e.t.c

From your comments I really doubt if you've ever met a Saarloos.
 
yep ....I've never seen one in this country ( I think thre are only a couple registered here) ...however in America Wolf crosses are more common .... the last set of statistics for dog attacks show 71 attacks on humans resulting in 18 deaths by wolf crosses making it one of the most dangerous 'breeds' of dog .... now this of course encompasses all wolf crosses not just the Sarloos Wolf Dog ...but nevertheless indicates a highly reactive temperament !
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...however in America Wolf crosses are more common .... the last set of statistics for dog attacks show 71 attacks on humans resulting in 18 deaths by wolf crosses making it one of the most dangerous 'breeds' of dog .... now this of course encompasses all wolf crosses not just the Sarloos Wolf Dog ...but nevertheless indicates a highly reactive temperament !
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Over how long?
What percentage of ALL dog attacks does that acount for?
A wolf cross in the right hands is no more of a liabilty then any other type of dog.
 
Milor, you forgot a few minor details, those attacks were from what year to the present day? (1982-2006 I'll think you'll find). America is a hugely populated area.

You forgot to mention that rotties accounted for 409 attacks and 58 deaths.
Pitbulls - 1110 attacks and 104 deaths.
GSD's - 63 attacks and 7 deaths.
A Chow (yes a chow!) - 49 attacks and 6 deaths. Plus 48 attacks by Akita's, 31 by Boxers, 39 by Huskies and 27 from Labradors!

I doubt if there are any number of Saarloos in America, most of the attacks will be by high percentage wolf hybrids which is what they like, anything below 50% and they're not interested. Alot are 70/80% wolf, a ridiculous amount in my opinion. Saarloos have been bred since the 1930's(and will rarely contain more than 27/30% wolf blood) and so the 'real' wild wolf is along way back in the lines. They were bred for looks, temp and loyalty along with a willingness to train and work. Americans are somewhat careless regarding the stock that they breed from and unless we went into each case we don't know who is at fault. My elder brother and his mates were bad enough in their late teens for winding one of our GSD's up. People are to blame when attacks occur.

If you honestly believe there are only a few in this country then you're naive. As mentioned above after speaking to Defra you don't need a licence for a Saarloos.
 
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