Whipping of horses

[squirtlysmum]

I absolutly agree that furious whipping is utterly wrong maybe if people learned to ride properly they wouldn't take their mistakes out on the horse as is often the case, I have seen riders drag their horses in the mouth flap arms and legs and then beat the living s**t out of the horse when it stops.
As for being a bunny hugger theres nought wrong with that, bunnies world wide need hugs!!!

 

[Shilasdair]

I believe you are wrong, PaintedLucky for a number of reasons;
1. I've seen people who are 'too kind' to smack before...but they think nothing of kicking the horse's ribs til black and blue, thumping up and down on it's back, etc.
2. You can't reason with a horse...as you can with older children.
3. An undisciplined horse is a dangerous horse. I once had a horse sold to me as a dangerous napper, which spun and reared. The owners told me how much they loved her, but they thought she had a brain tumour...they didn't believe in whips, and were considering PTS. First day I had her, three sharp smacks and the napping problems were cured, dream to own.
4. Then they had a pony...sweet pony...at first...guess what? Yes, it became a 'dangerous animal' which needed PTS, they'd loved it, and cuddled it, but there was something wrong with it, and it would do less and less. Yes, I bought it cheap, yes, three smacks in the arena - look of disbelief on pony face - cured!
Do you not use positive and negative reinforcement yourself?
S

 

[kcgibson]

i agree with you therre in some respects shilasdair but three smacks is very different to a beating. I guess you tried using your legs, horse/pony didnt listen so it got a sharp smack. This i see no problem with, my problem lies with people who take their lack of riding ability out on their horse or those people who whip first time without trying a verbal telling off, or those people who whip whip whip when its just not necessary. My horse has had a smack with the whip in the past for being naughty. Being naughty and being frightened or unable to understand what is being asked are two very different things. I just hate to see horses being hit for no good reason.
Positive reinforcement will get more results than negative. Not to say a smack to reinforce 'no' wont go amiss, but only when absoloutely necessary.

 

[virtual]

[ QUOTE ]
I absolutly agree that furious whipping is utterly wrong maybe if people learned to ride properly they wouldn't take their mistakes out on the horse as is often the case,

[/ QUOTE ]

Here here! So often you see horses being hit for mistakes caused by rider error.

I'm really really suprised at how many people here think that hitting a horse to get it over a jump is the best way to go about it. I'm not anti-whip, and I use one when it's needed, but only once, at the time of the incident, and not in anger, but most of the time the horse isn't being stubbon or awkward - he's scared, overfaced, ridden badly etc, and no amount of whipping will make him want to jump the next fence. I want my horses to enjoy jumping, not jump out of fear.

I can't remember the last time I had an ill mannered horse, either ridden, or on the ground.

 

[Spot_the_Risk]

Only the original poster was there and saw the exact detail of what happened.

I sometimes carry a whip, and having had my horse for 10 years, and us knowing each other very well, he occasionally gets a tap on the bum to make him concentrate - he has a 3 second goldfish kind of brain and can be spooky. Because we have been together so long, I know the difference between spooky as in really afraid, and spooky taking the mick - spooky taking the mick gets a slap!!

I don't do ridden showing with him anymore as he gets just plain silly in the ring, but there are many times inthe ring when he has been playing me up, and I have wished I could give him three really good wallops across the ass - he has never needed more, and because it is so infrequently he gets hit, in tends to have a very good effect!

 

[livetoride]

I believe that every rider needs to establish a clear understanding with their horse of where the limits of acceptable behaviour lie, and must always insist that they stay within these bounds. If the horse steps over the limits, then he has misbehaved and needs to be made to recognise that. For minor misbehaviour this could be by a simple "NO" with a stern voice. For more serious disobedience, the whip can be an effective way of teaching the horse a lesson. The punishment depends on how serious the misbehaviour is, but it should leave him in no doubt that by doing what the rider asks, as long as it is clear and within the horses abilities, life is a far more pleasant and comfortable.

For me, a willful refusal is a serious disobedience, which the horse must not be allowed to get away with. If possible, I try to stand him in front of the fence, and turn the whip around in my hand and apply it up to three times behind the girth as a reminder to obey my leg aid in future. We then turn away and try the fence again. I would do the same whether I was schooling at home or in competition.

I'm not sure how many whacks the rider described in the original post gave, but as long as it was not more than three for each disobedience, then it is not excessive, though without more detail on this particular incident it is difficult to comment further.

Sarah

 

[Skhosu]

Personally I feel three is too many, why three rather than one? And I would not turn the whip in my hand as that strikes me as really trying to hurt the horse..

 

[only_me]

when i go cross country, my pony sometimes backs off a fence out of naughtiness, so instead of hitting him, i show my stick and ride with one hand! this generally works and i tend to hail a taxi alot of fences!
i give him a slap on the shoulder occasionally to make him pay attention (part connemara so mind wanders a bit)
but generally i only carry a whip in case i need it, and only use it when i need it as well!

 

[Skhosu]

if he's backing off is that not the equivalent of spooking i.e scared of the fence?

 

[pixiebee]

livetoride-id hate to be your horse!! so you know a 'willful' refusal is do you? 3 smacks-why? one is sufficent, three in a row is just plain stupid-sorry to sound rude but i just get so angry with people who think the answer is with a whip- it is an 'aid' which is to SUPPORT not abuse!!

 

[pixiebee]

[ QUOTE ]
if he's backing off is that not the equivalent of spooking i.e scared of the fence?

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mine will back off a fence if the filler is particually scary or he has not seen one like that before-but generally with a little kick and a 'go on' in a stern voice he jumps it well and then i always shout good boy in a stupidly loud voice

 

[zigzag]

I went to our local pony club show today (just to watch) watched some of the jumping, there was a girl of around 16 riding in a jumping class, she beat her pony into each fence and was wearing spurs which were constantly jabbing into the pony's sides , her position was awful and in my opinion she shouldn't have been wearing spurs. the pony constantly refused the jumps. all the girl was told of for by the DC was please watch your language (she was swearing at pony) .. this I thought was an awful advert for the Pony Club.. I don't say I have never hit a horse when riding, I have but only a tap when neccessary, never constantly whipping into a fence

 

[spooks]

i was fence judging today at pc event for 13 yr olds and under, was marvelling at these cute ponies being pointed at fences by kids whose reins you could hang washing on and them just popping over the jump, very sweet to watch.later on saw this kid (9/10 ish ) at fence prior to mine.pony spots jumps says no thanks and stops 10 feet away..fair doos he was being naughty..the kid lost her temper and beat this pony and i mean BEAT it , pony just stood there and took it (had of been daughters pony she would have said sod you, off you get! ) anyway i said to number 1 daughter just make a note of excessive use of the whip in the comments bit which she did..thought no more of it until i looked at the results at the end of the day, there for all to see were the words eliminated for excessive use of the whip... she wasnt the only one either in that class ,another was eliminated for the same reason and for bad language, good going for under 13's! letters are winging there way to there DC's apparently.

im not adverse to giving a horse a smack if its being naughty or dangerous but to raise you arm full stretch and whack the animal 7 or 8 times is totally unnecessary especially when its being punished for the riders inability to actually ride it!!

 

[only_me]

no, hes just being lazy and naughty! hes got quite a stubborn streak really, and likes to see what he can get away with!
do you know the type? lol

 

[only_me]

instead of using my stick, i often shout at him, you know, GRRRRRR or GEEEETTTTT UPPP! or sometimes GETTTT ONNNNN WITHHHH ITTTT! lol it seems to have quite an effect...

 

[WishfulThinker]

I think it depends on the horse adn the situation. My boy will easily jump 3ft+, but a few weeks ago refused a piddly 2ft6 jump 3 times, and he was int scared or in pain he was simply acting up, and for that yes he got reprimanded each time he ran out.

I have always been taught that you ask one, if they don't respond you tell them again but firmer, and if still no response you back it up with a whip. But you should at no time whip an animal until it is frightened. I once was watching a BSJA comp about 9 years ago, the juniors, and one kid whipped its pony soo much it was peeing in CANTER, which I have been told they shouldn't be able to do!

I hear so many people go on about the gentle gentle approach, which sounds wonderful, but not everyone has a nice friendly horse, and at the end of the day mine is 600kg, and I HAVE to be in charge of that.

 

[magic104]

It is difficult to make a judgement without being there or knowing the history of the horse/pony. What I do think is wrong is assuming that the horse/pony is always being naughty or awkward. Most horses/ponies end up stopping due to rider error. There is also a possibility the tack did not fit correctly, there are any number of reasons. Smacking the horse in this case sounds like loss of temper. Funny how as parents we are not permitted to smack our children for being naughty, but we can beat our horses with a stick in front of a crowd & be applauded for it!

 

[Sparklet]

I have seen some dreadful riding at certain unaffiliated show jumping competitions including a girl who beat her horse round the head for calling for its friend. It seems to be over the fence at any cost for some riders so I am not particularly surprised that PL was shocked.

When you watch the BSJA stuff, more difficult and complex fences the riding is so much better - its a shame some of the poor riders dont try to emulate their style rather than just dragging the horse round.

 

[izzyxxx]

my mare is rather lazy and half way round a field she will just come to a stand still and her eyes will close and there is nothing i can do to make her go anywhere its getting better i use my voice and i normal leg aid then again with a tougher leg aid then a smack on the sholder if all of that does not work then its her bum that gets a smack lol by the end of the ride if she decides to stop again i only have to say walk on and off she goes. I will treat her differently if she stops with her head in the air cause it normally means she has seen something and is not genrally being lazy lol. My mum always says that she hates seeing me smack her but i have to say that she knows afterwards what is going to come next is she doesnt respond the aid i give (big learning curve lol) oh yeh just remmembered did you know it takes about 3 seconds for a horse to think about what you have just asked it to do and respond so they may not always be a pain in the bum they might just have to think about it haha

 

[Honeypots]

[ QUOTE ]
Well said Brightyes.

The stick should be used to re-enforce an aid and as an extension of the leg IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

yep...and NEVER as a punishment!!

Those of you that use it as a punishment...just how DO you explain to the horse that you are smacking it harder than usual because its been a naughty boy/girl!!?

 

[Jellicle]

Exactly honeypots. I would use a whip if the horse was refusing to go forwards, but there is NO point in whipping a horse as punishment. It just teaches them to be scared of the whip.