Whips -AGAIN!

MontyandZoom

MontyandZoom

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 June 2007
Messages
2,478
Visit site
The 'use of whips' argument is raging on in the latest news bit but I thought, rather than interrupting a full-scale debate......I'd ask a specific question on here.

For those who think that a whip should not be used as a punishment what would you do in this situation?

When I first got Monty, he could throw a mean buck (back, saddle, teeth fine, just a bit of b@stard!). When this happened, I would always give him a hard smack. The first few times this resulted in a second buck and I would smack him again and he would stop, but after about a month of riding him, he stopped bucking all together. These were not exuberence (sp), he had learned from novice riders that bucking meant the end of work.

This is not backing up an aid......I did it to punish him and make him understand that his behaviour was unacceptable. How would you handle a horse that bucks in this manner?
 
I would just ignore it and soon enough he will learn bucking doesn't mean the end of work.

That is mainly with the driving ponies, as the whip has to be used as an aid and smaking them undersaddle doesn't help them learn to react how you want from it, moving away, bending around it, moving on etc. as if they are scared of the whip this aid is lost.
 
[ QUOTE ]
How would you handle a horse that bucks in this manner?

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly the way you did, but then again, I'm not for banning the use of whip as punishment.
I can also distinguish between punishment and taking revenge. IMO you should let your emotions go after the horse, but when it needs to be punished, it needs to be punished.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How would you handle a horse that bucks in this manner?

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly the way you did, but then again, I'm not for banning the use of whip as punishment.
I can also distinguish between punishment and taking revenge. IMO you should let your emotions go after the horse, but when it needs to be punished, it needs to be punished.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly this. If a horse is taking the p!ss in this way, I can't see any other way to stop it; ignoring the issue is dangerous and only causes the issue to continue longer.


(My english brain is dead today, I hope this makes sense)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How would you handle a horse that bucks in this manner?

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly the way you did, but then again, I'm not for banning the use of whip as punishment.
I can also distinguish between punishment and taking revenge. IMO you should let your emotions go after the horse, but when it needs to be punished, it needs to be punished.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree! These are big animals and they have to be disciplined when necessary.

However, there are some horses for whom it's not suitable or necessary. You need to be selective and judge on temprement. For example my tb mare responds fine to a vocal scolding as she's rather sensitive, but the fell pony will ignore that so a smack is more appropriate with her.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I would just ignore it and soon enough he will learn bucking doesn't mean the end of work.

[/ QUOTE ]

But with my friends horse for example, the bucking continues until they get you off. This means that the behaviour is rewarded by getting out of work. Monty's bucks are mean and are very hard to sit to.

Surely this would encourage the behaviour even more?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I completely agree! These are big animals and they have to be disciplined when necessary.

However, there are some horses for whom it's not suitable or necessary. You need to be selective and judge on temprement. For example my tb mare responds fine to a vocal scolding as she's rather sensitive, but the fell pony will ignore that so a smack is more appropriate with her.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. I NEVER use a whip on Zoomy. She is very sensitive and so very rarely misbehaves anyway. I think she would have a nervous breakdown if I smacked her!
 
If it was bad enough to get me off, or unbalance me it would get a whack, a big one. I'm lucky in that mine can give it all the have but beinh 14hh I stay on.
laugh.gif
 
Horses are all very different, so what works for one, does not always work for another, so you have do what you see fit.
Obviously in your case this worked for you because you know your horse, what you did worked.

But when people say you should do this, do that etc etc then really how they know because they don't know your horse.

For example if Mackenzie bucked (which he does odd times) if I cracked him he'd buck again, if I punished him again, he have me off, simple and he'd be in a foul mood for the rest of my schooling session. I was told by onlookers to crack him but I had my reasons not to because I thought there were reasons behind this, which to me is far more important to explore these than instant punishment which people are far too easy in doing.

When it is just pure mis-behaviour, If I ignore the first buck and push on and continue (although I do growl at him so he knows he was in the wrong) then there is less chance of a second or third buck (hence if he does do it, its just once and when he's spooked) some horses you can resolve your differences when they learn that nothing comes from their reaction (attitude) where other horses you can fight back with and they give in and think ''ooow I over stepped the mark, I won't do that again'' kinda thing, so really it depends on how they think, you only have to look at their faces when you have punished them to see how they will react next time.
 
I remember posting about whips a month ago, half of the people disagreed with how i used it and the other supported me.I agree that if a horse bucks you give it a smack and if it continues you give it a smack, punishment for bad behavour.

I know whips are there to back up aids as well, but it is quite obvious if you are backing up your aid with a tickle of the whip and actually telling them off with a smack. I don't believe it is a mixed message at all
 
It would depend why I thought the horse was bucking.
Some youngsters buck into canter, purely because they don't understand how to flex their hocks under them for the transition (bucking lets them bring the leg forward straight), and obviously smacking isn't helpful.
The last time I can think of, was a GP dressage horse, who bucked as an evasion to going forward. HIs bucks were nothing, tbh, but a novice lady rode him too, and he used to deck her.
I didn't smack him, but if he bucked, I would make him canter 3/4 speed for a lap so he had to go forward and a buck meant more, rather than less effort was required of him.
S
grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How would you handle a horse that bucks in this manner?

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly the way you did, but then again, I'm not for banning the use of whip as punishment.
I can also distinguish between punishment and taking revenge. IMO you should let your emotions go after the horse, but when it needs to be punished, it needs to be punished.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree! These are big animals and they have to be disciplined when necessary.

However, there are some horses for whom it's not suitable or necessary. You need to be selective and judge on temprement. For example my tb mare responds fine to a vocal scolding as she's rather sensitive, but the fell pony will ignore that so a smack is more appropriate with her.

[/ QUOTE ]

^^^ agree with the above, i never carried a whip with my ex racer as he was terrified of them, but gentle encouragement worked with him, however one of my old horses and D (even though he has confidence issues) i know/knew when they were misbehaving so would get a smack, i only ever need to give them one smack and that was enough for them to know they were in the wrong and they were to behave.
 
QR

i would definitely have smacked it everytime he bucked i used to have a mare that did small-ish bucks as her style of napping (stop dead and buck) she got smacked every time as nothing else worked and its down right naughty!

atm my current mare normally responds well to growl or a few swear words yelled at her when she naps.

i agree some horses it may not suit but others need it!

smile.gif
 
i totally agree!!!! my 4yo was broken in so badly that if he decided that it was the end of work he would try and rodeo u off or just be an ass!!!
frown.gif
and the silly cow that was breaking him in just got off and put him away!!!
mad.gif
now after a couple of attemps with me and a couple of wacks he soon relised that its not the end and u will do as u are told. he still trys it on but only once in a blue moon now!
grin.gif
he now respects me and now that we have sorted out are differences we now both no were each other stand!
grin.gif
i do beleive that if a horse is mucking about and being an ass then a couple of shouts and smacks does not , i beleave, make them scared of wips or harm them it just shows them its not the way to behave.
smile.gif


p.s i would have done the same as u as i cannot stand a bucker or one that asses around! lol
grin.gif
grin.gif
grin.gif
 
For naughty bucking (RS horses know about this stopping work...) riding forward is often the best thing you can do. Catch the intent, keep the head up and drive them forward if you can or make sure you move them on as soon as possible if they sneak one in before you can stop them.

Neither of you (I imagine!) enjoy stopping for a 'fight' and at the end of the day the horse is bigger so better to stay in charge without it needing to get physical where possible! If you carry on with minimal fuss they see that they have to do what you say anyway (or possibly more work than if they had done it properly the first time) so there is no point having a tantrum.

I do carry a stick with share horsey (sensitive Arab!) because owner does and I want to be consistent but nearly always avoid it with RS horses (often ploddy cob types!) as want them to tune back in to correct aides as much as possible. It has never occurred to me to smack a bucking horse as a punishment, seen it done loads and don't like the escalation of (negative) energy on both sides. Nothing wrong with using the stick to back up the leg aide to move a naughty one forwards though.
 
Henry used tp buck for England when I got him. I ignored it and he stopped within a few weeks. I did make the mistake of giving him a smack once and he launched me over his head. He's a good trainer, is my pony.
wink.gif
 
LOL the launching over the head sounds familiar, it is a style only ponies can master!

My friends pony was a very well schooled dressage horse (ex BSJA, she done 148cm with him then got too old for ponies and rechooled him!) this pony used to take the mick out novice riders who thought you turned by pulling the reins, he would turn his head and continue in a straight line, the harder the pulled the further he would bend!

We were out hacking once and he had a little buck in the field, nothing big just out of fun. She flicked him with the whip to say no and he had another little buck, bit bigger but again nothing serious, she flicked him a bit harder and the next thing she knew she was starring up at him from the ground.

She tried so hard not to laugh and tried to give him into trouble for it but he was 24 and schooled to medium level dressage after being a very successful SJer...you really couldn't argue with his not wanting to be flicked with a stick for a little buck!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top