White Line Disease

[Surbie]

The horse I newly look after was suddenly very lame yesterday - coaxed into stable slowly with a few carrot sticks & lots of praise. Vet came out and found an abcess in near fore...and then said he has white line disease. Farrier didn't spot it on last week's trim. The cavities in the near fore are between 1-2cm deep, nearly all the way round & deepest at the heel. The hinds are not nearly as bad. Couldn't get the off fore up so will try again today after the poultice change.

Vet's advice is to soak all feet daily in a weak iodine solution & he can stay out in the field.

This is a horse that I might be taking on either on my own or as a share with another woman at the yard. He would be my first horse. The yard is very supportive and they know I've never had a loan before.

How serious/recurrent an issue is it?

 

[be positive]

It is not the end of the world but I would expect the owner to take responsibility for sorting it out properly before letting him go on loan to a novice, you will then need to keep on top of it, get his diet, exercise, foot care and general management right and prevent it getting to anything like this state again.
I would be a bit concerned that it was missed by both the farrier and owner, with cavities that deep they are rather obvious when you pick out the foot, so there are questions over the general care he has been getting which may mean it could be tricky to make any meaningful changes within the constraints of the yard/ loan/ share arrangement.

 

[ester]

I don't suspect the farrier missed it per se, a lot just seem to think it normal for particular horses.

How serious/recurrent it is really depends, for some there is likely a dietary element as ideally the white line should be tight enough not to allow any infection causing debris in but in most shod horses that isn't the case and having shoes on makes it harder to treat and and get to.

 

[Surbie]

Thanks both, much appreciated, particularly about getting it right before a loan starts.

He isn't shod - shoes were taken off about 6 months ago, so at least we can get to his feet easily. He has been footy ever since, with recurrent issues with near fore & off hind, though getting better now he's out on the track with quieter mares rather than in the field with the other big boys, so he hoons about less.

I am concerned the farrier didn't mention it if he did see it, knowing he has been transitioning and given it's probably on all 4 feet.

Totally take your points about consistency. The plan is that if I do him 7 days, or share with 1 other only, I will know he has consistent picking out & soaking. Unfortunately I go away on holiday on the weekend. Horse wasn't in the picture when we booked it!

I am going to talk to the YO about diet & field conditions - he is on permanent loan to the yard - they know I am a novice, but also keen to learn.

Any tips on sensibly exercising a horse with WLD v welcome!

 

[ester]

Ok if not shod it would make me suspect diet even more, iodine will work but there are other products that might work better like cleantrax. Is he booted if footy? I'd be dubious about taking him on as he is.

 

[Tnavas]

If you can still get Cornucrescene then buy some and use it on the coronary band everyday.

I have a theory that it begins as a fungal disease in the growth area of the hoof - just lik humans get in their toe nails. The nail under the outer part is crumbly and weak, just like seedy toe. Someone told me to use Vicks Vapour rub on my toe nail and the damage has now grown out and I had tried all the doctors remedies.

I believe it mildly blisters the nail bed and kills the fungus causing the breakdown. This is what cornucrescene does as well. Great for fingernail growth too.

 

[ester]

If that is the case, how come those that get resected and they go as high as they need don't end up going that high?

 

[Andalucian]

Ester is right, if true white line disease, Cleantrax is the best product.

To get white line disease however, there has to be a stretch in the white line or stones getting wedged in it to allow the infection to get in.

So either the diet is too rich in sugar causing the stretch (and by this I mean rich grass probably) or tiny gravelly stones aren't being removed daily, causing the to get deeper and deeper.

Fix these two and you resolve the ongoing problem.

I'd avoid cornucresence, and iodine for that matter, both far too strong.

 

[Tnavas]

If that is the case, how come those that get resected and they go as high as they need don't end up going that high?

I think it starts at the coronet and as the hoof spreads outwards the white line gets wider and wider. The infection is there at the top starting in an area that is vulnarable.

Andalucian what makes you think Iodine and cornucrescene is too strong?

 

[Casey76]

I think it starts at the coronet and as the hoof spreads outwards the white line gets wider and wider. The infection is there at the top starting in an area that is vulnarable.

Andalucian what makes you think Iodine and cornucrescene is too strong?

Iodine kills both bad and good cells, so at the same time as you are killing the bacterial and fungal infections, you are also killing off the new growth of healthy tissue.

Cornucrescine does act as a mild blister; it encourages fast growth of the hoof wall. Unfortunately this hoof wall is poor quality and often has poor attachment to the internal structures as it has been "forced" (just like how out of season strawberries are often a bit weak and anaemic tasting).

 

[ester]

Why is the coronet vulnerable? I don't see how a hoof can reliably be compared with a nail bed in the way you are trying to. Does anyone else share this theory.

My thoughts re treatment were that at this stage iodine isn't the worst thing in the world though there maybe better. I would not use cornucrescine.

 

[Circe]

My boy has had wld, the only thing that worked for him was keratex hoof disinfectant.
I tried copper sulphate, milton, betadine, farriers choice disinfectant. I haven't heard of cleantrax, it isn't something I can get here.
If we have very wet weather, it will start again, and I have to be vigilant about treating it early.
My boy now has a fantastic farrier and is on a 5 weeks shoeing cycle.
Hes on a "barefoot diet" as I think that should every horses diet if possible.
Its not unmanageable, but I would want it sorted out before comiting to the horse, I'd also want to think about changing the trimmer/farrier to be honest, as it shouldn't have been unnoticed/ just left.
Kx

 

[Andalucian]

Iodine kills both bad and good cells, so at the same time as you are killing the bacterial and fungal infections, you are also killing off the new growth of healthy tissue.

Cornucrescine does act as a mild blister; it encourages fast growth of the hoof wall. Unfortunately this hoof wall is poor quality and often has poor attachment to the internal structures as it has been "forced" (just like how out of season strawberries are often a bit weak and anaemic tasting).

Thanks Casey, absolutely right. Cornucrescine causes a spurt in the outer wall only through irritation, but doesn't stimulate the inner wall, so you get uneven growth between the two and a bump in the wall (growth ring) as a result.

The inner wall is the problem on white line disease, the intra tubular horn is compromised and need strengthening through correct nutrition and infection control. Outer wall is unaffected and will recover once inner wall is healthy again.

 

[Andalucian]

I haven't heard of cleantrax, it isn't something I can get here.Kx

Google it, it's a small bottle, it could be posted easily worldwide.

 

[Surbie]

Thanks all - as an update we are switching from the iodine for the same reasons you've highlighted - discussing tomorrow.

He was put on some rich grass about 2 1/2 months ago to strip graze it with another biggun and that's been the only change to his diet. Both have now had abcesses on near fores so that won't be happening again. They are normally on a barefoot diet and are really good doers.

He trotted yesterday in Sick Bay. Trotted! It wasn't pretty, but he did it of his own volition. And he only kicked over the soaking bucket 3 times...

 

[Nasicus]

Managed to nuke my girls WLD with applications of Artimud every other day. Great stuff imo!

 

[FlickaFlo0605]

My pony has had white line disease. I scrubbed it twice a week with hibbi scrub and clean water which I put in a shallow bucket. I suggest only having poultice on for the first couple of weeks then after that giving it air and it will feel more natural for the horse. Do. Not. Travel. I seriously advise not putting your horse in a trailer because the vibrations can seriously annoy the abscess. I wouldn't ride unless the surface is carpet or sponge because it's more of a coushin for the hoof. I took my pony for wee 10 minute walks once a week. I kept this going for 2/3 months and FloJo was back to normal. No cavities. No lameness. No pain. Hope this helps!

 

[Surbie]

He was annoying today. Kicked over the soaking bucket many times, refused to put foot in it, pulled off first poultice within minutes (my fault, it was obvs a sloppy attempt), decided black soaking bucket might kill him and both honked really loudly & snapped the string holding his leadrope. Promptly stepped on leadrope & panicked. Gaaaaarrrgghhhh. Scrubbed out abcess and foot rather than soaking and scrubbed other feet too. Will. Not. Give. Up!

Poulticing/soaking back in his box tomorrow. Cleantrax is on order. Milton liquid as a backup till then, no more iodine.

He's absolutely not travelling anywhere or being ridden till he's properly sound - he's only a little pottery at walk and has either jumped or sidled under the electric fence once already to get to the long grass. (now in a fenced paddock) The vet will be back next week to check on the abcess's progress, farrier's coming in when I'm back from holiday to discuss feet.

 

[FlickaFlo0605]

I wouldn't worry about him not putting his foot in the bucket. FloJo, my pony who had white line disease didn't want to do that either but she got used to it, just splashed some on her hoof, simple stuff. Small paddock will do him good. I'm glad I was of use to you! Good luck!

 

[Surbie]

If I've managed to upload the photos ok, this is where we are at with the Lad's feet. Pictures are of the worst hoof, the abcessed near fore, taken just after a dilute Milton scrub so they are wet. You can see the abcess hole and he has thin hoof walls.

The abcess hold is closing slowly, he is sound in walk and not yet in trot. Daily Milton soaks and meticulous picking out. I have started back on walking him on the carpark and the drive to get different surfaces for his feet other than the field & stable.

Wouldn't mind some advice on how long it might take to come good. He is loving his holiday and all the fuss, and now doesn't assume the soaking bucket will kill him. I just want his feet to be right.

 

[Tnavas]

Iodine kills both bad and good cells, so at the same time as you are killing the bacterial and fungal infections, you are also killing off the new growth of healthy tissue.

Cornucrescine does act as a mild blister; it encourages fast growth of the hoof wall. Unfortunately this hoof wall is poor quality and often has poor attachment to the internal structures as it has been "forced" (just like how out of season strawberries are often a bit weak and anaemic tasting).

Cornucrescene is a mild blister, it also kills fungus, so helps to prevent the white line disease from continuing, then you just need time for the foot to grow down,

There is no need to stop working the horse, just ensure that the farrier takes the pressure off the worst area.

 

[Tnavas]

If I've managed to upload the photos ok, this is where we are at with the Lad's feet. Pictures are of the worst hoof, the abcessed near fore, taken just after a dilute Milton scrub so they are wet. You can see the abcess hole and he has thin hoof walls.

The abcess hold is closing slowly, he is sound in walk and not yet in trot. Daily Milton soaks and meticulous picking out. I have started back on walking him on the carpark and the drive to get different surfaces for his feet other than the field & stable.

Wouldn't mind some advice on how long it might take to come good. He is loving his holiday and all the fuss, and now doesn't assume the soaking bucket will kill him. I just want his feet to be right.

Keep up with a wet poultice such as Animalintex until the horse is sound. Pack the hole with cottonwool soaked in Stockholm Tar, Have farrier shoe with a leather pad between shoe and sole. Before the shoe is put on, paint the sole with Stockholm tar and a layer of cottonwool paint the piece of leather on the sole side with Stockholm Tar. Once the shoe and leather sole is on paint the bottom of the heel with Stockholm Tar. The sole should now be sealed, preventing water and dirt getting in.

 

[Surbie]

Thanks for taking the time to reply - I do appreciate it but both vet and farrier have said that's not needed. He's on a regime of daily foot soaks to kill the harmful bacteria and that isn't going to be possible if the hoof is sealed.

 

[be positive]

Thanks for taking the time to reply - I do appreciate it but both vet and farrier have said that's not needed. He's on a regime of daily foot soaks to kill the harmful bacteria and that isn't going to be possible if the hoof is sealed.

There is no reason to shoe and certainly no reason to put a pad on which will stop the progressive healing and treatment, I would be a little concerned he is still lame but that may be nothing to do with the abscess hole and should improve as his feet tighten up, keep walking on the hard surfaces if he is comfortable enough as that will stimulate growth, get the frogs working better, the central sulcus is fairly deep and should improve with movement, walking will also help with some self trimming, the hole itself should be gone within a few weeks.

 

[Tnavas]

There is no reason to shoe and certainly no reason to put a pad on which will stop the progressive healing and treatment, I would be a little concerned he is still lame but that may be nothing to do with the abscess hole and should improve as his feet tighten up, keep walking on the hard surfaces if he is comfortable enough as that will stimulate growth, get the frogs working better, the central sulcus is fairly deep and should improve with movement, walking will also help with some self trimming, the hole itself should be gone within a few weeks.

Having treated countless hoof abscess over a 50 year period my comments are from experience. The horse is lame because there is inflammation from bacteria infection. It needs to be poulticed until all the bacteria has gone, I also use a topical antibiotic such as the sort used for mastitis. Once the abscess is fully clean and drained the horse will go sound. You now need to keep this wound clean until the damaged hoof is replaced. This is where the Stockholm tar, cotton wool, leather pad and shoe come in. You protect the foot with them while it has a chance to heal. Remember that while the horse is lame he is in pain. This method reduces the length of time and intensity of pain the horse suffers.

 

[ester]

Surbie have you x rayed?

 

[Leo Walker]

Why is the coronet vulnerable? I don't see how a hoof can reliably be compared with a nail bed in the way you are trying to. Does anyone else share this theory.

I absolutely do not share this theory!

Cornucrescene is a mild blister, it also kills fungus, so helps to prevent the white line disease from continuing, then you just need time for the foot to grow down

How is this supposed to work? The infection is at the bottom on the inside. How does applying a blister at the top on the outside help?!

OP be careful whose advice you take on here. There is some absolutely shockingly terrible advice on this thread

 

[Tnavas]

I absolutely do not share this theory!



How is this supposed to work? The infection is at the bottom on the inside. How does applying a blister at the top on the outside help?!

OP be careful whose advice you take on here. There is some absolutely shockingly terrible advice on this thread

The infection is not in the bottom of the foot, if it were it could be cut out cleanly with ease. The infection starts in the live tissue that builds the hoof, the coronary band, It then travels down with the growth of the foot, and because of the shape of the horses foot, the weakened damaged area begins to open up.

I've seen farriers open a long way up the wall, exposing the cheesy textured damaged horn, yet at the previous shoeing the foot was fine.

A comparison, in humans is a fungal toe nail, It looks fine at the cuticle end but looks ghastly at the other end, mis happen and thickened. Treating the end doesn't work, but treat the nailbed, the cuticle or coronary band in the horse and you kill the fungus that is damaging the foot.

Think carefully, how can a fungus damage hoof, it has to damage something live!

Been looking after horses professionally for 50yrs!

 

[twiggy2]

I would be concerned that the horse has-been lame for o er three weeks.
Personally I would not loan or take on anything with white line disease as it can be very difficult to get on top of. My cousins mare has had it for over three years despite being on a bare foot diet and healthy in all other respects on only having the white line disease in one hoof.
What breed is the horse?
Are you paying to loan this horse?

 

[ester]

Yer you haven't been able to share any veterinary or hoof care professionals who have written in support of your theory tnavas?

And I still can't fathom why fungal nail infections are even a comparison!