Who does your horses teeth? Vet or EDT.

eggs said:
That is why I would only use an EDT who is BEVA registered (British Association of Equine Dental Technicians). They are not people who have just bought a bunch of tools and set themselves up but have undertaken a rigorous process of assessments and examinations.

I think the bad EDT experiences that people are quoting are for those that are not BEVA/BVDA qualified.
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Absolutely! EDTs who have passed the BEVA/BVDA exam and are members of the BAEDT have definitely not just bought a bunch of tools and set themselves up. Aswell as the exams they have to be suitably insured and undertake regular CPD training. The BEVA exam is sat by qualified vets too not just EDTs - surely this underlines the point that the training done within many veterinary degrees is not that comprehensive. Unfortunately the law is lacking at present and so those that want to can still just buy the tools and set up in business doing Category 1 work, hence the reason horse owners should check that the EDT they use is suitably trained and qualified.
 
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lannerch said:
Then would alsiola like to qualify how much basic training a vet has in dentistry ie how many lectures?
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My training relevant to dentistry:

Anatomy, physiology and embryology of teeth (covered in years 1-2): ~6 hours
Nutrition of horses: (years 1-2): ~8 hours
Pathology of the oral cavity(year 3): ~8 hours
Pharmacology of NSAIDs, antibiotics,sedatives, local anaesthetics etc. (year 3): ~16 hours
Equine dentistry techniques (year 4): ~14 hours
Practical sessions on dentistry (year 5): ~8 hours

In addition, I spent over 500 working hours in the university hospital seeing obviously a wide variety of cases, but a good number of advanced dental cases. Difficult to put a number on how many hours exactly were dental related. Conservatively I will call it 20 hours.
And of course the 6 months of EMS, of which I did 4 months in equine first opinion practice. Again difficult to put a number but a large amount of dental work. An average equine practitioner does at least 10% dental work, so that is 48 hours.

This is not to mention the lectures/practicals on clinical examination, radiography, local anaesthetic techniques, therapeutics etc. which while not directly aimed at dentistry, all help with one's decision making and treatment.

So before qualifying I had trained somewhere around 108 hours directly related to equine dentistry, with a great deal more training indirectly related to it.

After qualifying I attended the BEVA New Graduates dentistry course, and a 3 day equine dentistry course. I also performed many procedures with the guidance/supervision of my seniors.

This is why it irks me somewhat when people go on about the "2 hours training that vets get on horse's teeth".

And why does my equine vet very well known, have an Edt attached to his practice if vets are so much better? ( and the Edt I use )
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You would have to ask him. Maybe because he doesn't want to do them himself and has found a professional EDT.

Are vets doing so bad in her part of the world that buissness is so cut throat that you have to pull down the fellow proffesionals you should be working with?
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To reiterate my post earlier, I have no problem working with EDTs who act like professionals. I have serious problems with EDTs who bad mouth the work of others with no idea of the horse's history.
 
If that is in response to my post regarding my EDT skating the job the vet had done - then actually the vet had never seen the pony before & the EDT had known & done him for 3yrs so actually he knew the pony much better than the vet!!

I had the vet do him that time as jabs were due aswell. Never again though.
 
I use and EDT who trained in the US and is qualified to doctorate level, there and here. He is also qualified to administer sedation and perform extractions. I wouldn't use a vet unless they were also EDT qualified.
 
Deseado said:
I use and EDT who trained in the US and is qualified to doctorate level, there and here. He is also qualified to administer sedation and perform extractions.
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Unless he is also a vet, he most definitely is not qualified, or legally permitted, to do either of the above.
 
I use an EDT and I must say he is fab. He does my horses loose in their herd and it's always totally stress free for all of us. :)
I would use a Vet but am so happy to have found this chap over here. :cool:
 
Deseado said:
I use and EDT who trained in the US and is qualified to doctorate level, there and here. He is also qualified to administer sedation and perform extractions. I wouldn't use a vet unless they were also EDT qualified.
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In the UK only vets can legally sedate. I am aware that there is at least one EDT who does sedate and isn't a vet and I can only assume his clients are unaware of the law. I would imagine should anything go wrong this individual would not have the necessary skills to treat the horse and the horse owners insurance would be invalid too. It also begs the question where does he obtain the drugs he administers?

EDTs and vets who are BEVA/BVDA qualified have to demonstrate proficiency with both power and manual tools in order to pass the practical exam. The details of exam application criteria and the exams themselves can be seen here: http://www.baedt.com/beva_5356.html and show that anyone passing this has indeed proved themselves knowledgable and capable.

A good working relationship between vets and paraprofessionals is very important and while I fully agree with alsiola that EDTs should behave professionally - the same also applies to vets who should not undermine the years of hard work and training undertaken by some EDT's (this is not aimed at alsiola but something I have heard from other vets).
 
Thanks for your reply aiolsia so basic veterinary training for equine dentistry is not nearly as much as a beva qualified Edt.
Unless off course as you have done you wish to go down the beva route as a further qualification in which case yes I agree you are probably even better the the beva Edt .
I realise you also get charlitans out there who do a couple of days courses buy the equipment and pose as Edt ( legally permissible ) which is the worst scinario possible and many times a worse option than your basic qualified vet!
 
Had my 20 yar old done by usual vet who sedated him because he was in a rush and had a lot of horses to do! Fuming wasn't the word.

I had Paul Waudby out the next time (actually hacked him round my mates yard to have him seen as he is in a bitless). Spent some time just patting/stroking him, settled him and then gently introduced him to the electric rasp and did him, following him when he moved and reassuring all the time. Very reasonable too. Never getting a vet again unless it needs surgery!
 
For the record, there is no such thing as an equine dentist only dental technicians. There's a reason why they can't use the word dentist too!
 
lannerch said:
Thanks for your reply aiolsia so basic veterinary training for equine dentistry is not nearly as much as a beva qualified Edt.
Unless off course as you have done you wish to go down the beva route as a further qualification in which case yes I agree you are probably even better the the beva Edt .
I realise you also get charlitans out there who do a couple of days courses buy the equipment and pose as Edt ( legally permissible ) which is the worst scinario possible and many times a worse option than your basic qualified vet!
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it would be a huge mistake to try and compare the number of hours of tuition etc and say that means EDTs know more- what we can cover in an hours lecture on a hoof takes my friends at farriery college several- the pace at vet school is much faster. though admittedly teeth arent the highlight of most vets days and an EDT may be better if they are well qualified, just dont try and compare it on hours worth of training
 
Dentist You don't got to your doctor to have you teeth done so why should a horse (unless there qualified to do teeth and i dont mean basic qualified )
 
By training I mean months and months of supervised practical I think I am right with beva you are not even allowed to take the test until you have covered an awful lot of supervised practical ( more than a year I think may be wrong ) to an adequate standard.
However the pace at vet school I can't believe it is thorough as the vet has to have a knowledge of everything so not pulling down the vetinary proffesion just preferring to have a specialist ( be that a beva Edt or vet who had done beva training. )
 
lannerch said:
Thanks for your reply aiolsia so basic veterinary training for equine dentistry is not nearly as much as a beva qualified Edt.
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Well I respectfully disagree on that point. This is from the BAEDT website:

A CV and two veterinary references.
A case log (dental charts) of 300 dental cases. These dental charts will have to include 40 cases of more advanced dental procedures taking place under sedation and signed by a vet. (BEVA reserve the right to contact clients or veterinary surgeons involved in each individual case study to verify the work carried out by the candidate). Photographic evidence would be welcome in the portfolio although not essential. (N.B At least 50% of the dental charts will need to be of procedures performed in the UK, including 50% of advanced cases.)
Have attended the BEVA/BVDA Advanced theoretical EDT course.
The candidate must also spend a minimum of five full days working under supervision with an EDT who has passed the BEVA/BVDA EDT exam or with a vet who performs a high amount of equine dental work. (A time period will be specified in which the days will need to have been spent. Usually the time period is 6 to 9 months before sitting the exam). The EDT or vet will then be independently asked to sign a form confirming that the candidate is ready to sit this examination. If the EDT or vet does not think the candidate is ready to sit the examination the candidate will be asked to defer sitting the exam at that time.
The examiners feel that it is very important that candidates do not sit this examination until they have appropriate training and experience to give them the very best chance of passing at the first attempt.
Candidates must attend the 2-day BEVA/BVDA advanced theoretical EDT course. The course teaches advanced dental anatomy, equine nutrition, dental disorders and treatments, microbiology, disinfection, health and safety and current legislation in Britain today. It does not give any of the training in the practical skills which must be attained to a very high level if this examination is to be passed.
Candidates are strongly advised to attend the pre examination training course which is run over a weekend. This is a superb opportunity for prospective candidates to get practical experience of working under exam conditions, whilst gaining tuition from BEVA / BAEDT qualified members & BEVA examiners in preparation for the exam.
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The minimum training is therefore 5 days with an EDT, plus a 2 day training course (of which the first day is spent covering topics that vets will know in much greater detail). 260/300 cases are under no required supervision. I don't feel this is comparable to the training I mentioned above.

I'm not trying to undermine EDTs and have personally worked with several very good ones, as well as one who was particularly poor. Equally I know some excellent vets and some less good vets at dentistry. It is the now commonplace view of the vet as the basic, and the EDT as a "specialist" that I find extremely irksome.
 
alsiola said:
Well I respectfully disagree on that point. This is from the BAEDT website:



The minimum training is therefore 5 days with an EDT, plus a 2 day training course (of which the first day is spent covering topics that vets will know in much greater detail). 260/300 cases are under no required supervision. I don't feel this is comparable to the training I mentioned above.

I'm not trying to undermine EDTs and have personally worked with several very good ones, as well as one who was particularly poor. Equally I know some excellent vets and some less good vets at dentistry. It is the now commonplace view of the vet as the basic, and the EDT as a "specialist" that I find extremely irksome.
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If this is the case why do some vets do the pre exam practical training course and also sit the BEVA exam?

I highly doubt anyone could pass the BEVA exam with seven days training. The five days with a vet or EDT are to verify that the candidate is ready to sit the exam not to train them for the exam. Two veterinary references are also required so a total of 3 professionals have vouched for the candidate before they can sit the exams. I would also imagine it would be difficult to produce 300 charts of the required standard without a sound understanding of equine dentistry. Having met this criteria the candidate has to attend the theoretical course before sitting the theory exam (B.Sc. Equine Dental Science Graduates are exempt from the theory exam). The theory exam consists of:
2 multiple choice papers
A Practical Spot Examination on specimens, equipment and models
Identifying and charting dental malocclusions on skulls & cadavers

Successful candidates can then go on and sit the practical exam where they are rigorously examined by two examiners (EDTS and vets) – their equipment is also checked and they have to demonstrate proficient use of both manual and power tools.

In reality in order to reach the required standard many hours of studying and practical training are required and the pass rate is not as high as you might imagine – I have even heard that vets have been known to fail!
 
Mine gets done by the vet as it comes free with our insurance pack. :3 We get a free general health check and a teeth rasping done once a year by the vet, I think it's quite a good deal!
 
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