Who else has has owners who have been sent letters by Georgie Spence?

from a horses point of view...it couldn't be doing them any good changing riders quite abit..but i would have to agree...

Talavera has earned her owners/rides...and i strongly belive this is how it should be done [Kudos to you Talavera]


yet GS i feel is a bit rude/cheeky to ask riders to do so...and MDS
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really?!
 
Most of the pertinent points have been made and I agree wholeheartedly with TD who, I hazard a guess, knows more about marketing in eventing than most of us.
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The data protection issue is interesting. It's not hard to get people's addresses using the internet but if the list is indeed expansive and includes people who guard their privacy, it does beg the question.

The problem with horses is it's both an industry and a community. I really haven't, on a professional basis, found it "just like any other business". I have been involved with quite a few people who have come into horses having been very successful in other, more common industries, and I would say their views and experiences would support my point. That doesn't mean people don't do business, but I think it would be a mistake to assume emotion doesn't enter into it to a greater extent than it does in most money making ventures. Perhaps because, at root, it's not a money MAKING venture, it's a money SPENDING venture . . .
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Also, I would think one danger with this approach is while obviously the target market is people unhappy in their current situation, I would think the big draw might be "flavour of the month" people, who would show a similar approach to loyalty in the future if it suited them.

But clients do come and go, it is part of the business. And people display their ambition in different ways. GS has certainly not done anything "wrong" in the technical sense but as mentioned, I wonder if she's been given the best advice. I assume she went with this plan knowing full well the sort of feelings it might stir up and doesn't have a problem with it, so all power to her. And in ten years time, internet gossip aside, if she's a fixture of the industry, people will get over it.
 
QR: Bad advice and not achieving the aim aside, is it any reason to vilify her on an internet forum? Especially by someone who does not identify themselves....or is this a bit of a 'pot'/'kettle' scenario - it's not ok for Georgie to write and try and get rides from other owners, but it's perfectly ok for riders of those owners to make sure as many people as possible know what she has done, without showing the letter to anyone, and implying it was done in a 'crass' and 'underhand' way, even though in fact, it may not have been written in that fashion at all? Or that it may (and I agree it may not) have been written off the back of a lorry park chat with said owners etc etc - I don't think we're getting the full story here, which is not to say it isn't the version the OP has outlined, just that it might not be.

Just a thought.....
 
Absolutely and very valid. But that's how internet forums work, isn't it?
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We all discuss all sorts of things we don't have the full story on.
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I do think the OP likely posted in the heat of the moment, as we might call a friend to vent. Perhaps not the wisest to publish the info, although no one seems to really see the internet as publishing any more.

I do think it's turned into a more general discussion, though, and the recent posts don't seem to be vilifying her, more discussing the general attitude towards such practices in the sport/industry/community.

I do think anyone who wants to make a high profile living in ANY public industry these days knows their actions will be discussed on forums like this, rightly or wrongly. It goes with the territory. I work on the assumption that people don't do things they would be ashamed to have other people find out about so, at the very least, they have their reasons.

I do think the thread has made the point, though, that this is not an unusual practice.
 
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Absolutely and very valid. But that's how internet forums work, isn't it?
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We all discuss all sorts of things we don't have the full story on.
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I do think the OP likely posted in the heat of the moment, as we might call a friend to vent. Perhaps not the wisest to publish the info, although no one seems to really see the internet as publishing any more.

I do think it's turned into a more general discussion, though, and the recent posts don't seem to be vilifying her, more discussing the general attitude towards such practices in the sport/industry/community.

I do think anyone who wants to make a high profile living in ANY public industry these days knows their actions will be discussed on forums like this, rightly or wrongly. It goes with the territory. I work on the assumption that people don't do things they would be ashamed to have other people find out about so, at the very least, they have their reasons.

I do think the thread has made the point, though, that this is not an unusual practice.

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I don't disagree, but I am also pretty sure the OP didn't post to promote a general discussion on the issue....
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Interesting your take on discussing riders etc - there has been more than one occasion on here where people have suggested if you don't ride at the level, you shouldn't really comment.
 
Oh, I didn't say people SHOULD talk, I said the DO talk.
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Anyone living in the public eye, however small their field, surely knows about internet forums. What interests me more is how many people on internet forums don't think their thoughts will get back to the people they're talking about. It works both ways.
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What's the suggestion? Don't say anything on an internet forum you wouldn't REALLY be prepared to say to someone's face in public? (Which begs the question, if it needs saying, why not just say it to the person's face?)

As far as people commenting on a rider's level of performance, that doesn't come into this discussion at all. No one is talking about her ability to ride a horse. For the record - and only tangentially connected to any of this - I generally don't agree with "role model" posts about how people who can ride a horse (or throw a ball or look a certain way or carry a tune) should be held up as some sort of moral beacon. What does one have to do with the other? They're just people and people don't all (thank god) make the same choices.
 
No, I wasn't meaning performance came into this discussion, I thought we'd got more general, that's all.

I suppose in one way it doesn't get said to people's faces because generally they don't come into contact with them? I know I regularly miss 'famous' people (riding and otherwise) that others spot even when they walk right past me!!
 
QR: I am not sure all professional riders are as dedicated, hard working, honest and humble as some of the thread seems to imply. There are plenty of riders out there resting on their (sometimes inconsiderable) laurels, talking the talk when actually they sit on the horse a couple of times a week and the rest of the time some WP rides it or it goes on the walker.... Now imagine if you were an owner who had your suspicions your rider was like this, and then you got a letter from a well-known rider outlining her enthusiasm and acheivements? Would you not be inclined to at least find out a bit more?
 
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QR: I am not sure all professional riders are as dedicated, hard working, honest and humble as some of the thread seems to imply. There are plenty of riders out there resting on their (sometimes inconsiderable) laurels, talking the talk when actually they sit on the horse a couple of times a week and the rest of the time some WP rides it or it goes on the walker.... Now imagine if you were an owner who had your suspicions your rider was like this, and then you got a letter from a well-known rider outlining her enthusiasm and acheivements? Would you not be inclined to at least find out a bit more?

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Or you have a horse your regular rider doesnt click with,or a horse regular rider does not have space for ect ect ect......

How we as the horsey public feel abotu this doesnt really matter(and I know some of you ladies compete/own at a high level,but most of us are hobby riders) and I doubt the letter was along the lines of "I am GS,gods gift to eventing.Send me all you good horses ASAP" but would think more written in the hope that some owners might have a horse in need of a rider now or in the future,and putting her name out might make her thought of.

It's all well and good to say good riders always find rides,but they dont do that by sitting at home hoping the phone will ring-they have to get out and get known to people who are in a position to hire a rider.
If it is as common as it would seem from this thread,then other riders would understand that and not think badly of her for it.

Sadly,unless you are able to own your own horses you are always at risk of loosing the ride.Might not be nice or right,but it is the way it goes.
If they end up in that situation,riders need to remember that they have been lucky to have the horse for the time they have,to have been given the chances they have and to have been suported by their owner for the time they did.
 
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ly of her for it.

Sadly,unless you are able to own your own horses you are always at risk of loosing the ride.Might not be nice or right,but it is the way it goes.
If they end up in that situation,riders need to remember that they have been lucky to have the horse for the time they have,to have been given the chances they have and to have been suported by their owner for the time they did.

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i think this is the key point really... if you are relying on others to buy horses for you then you are ALWAYS at risk of losing the ride. yes it would be nice to have ethical owners who would keep you informed but business is business....a friend of mine SJs at top level and has lost horses she's put lots of work into...when she gets a real superstar she tries her best to buy them or at least part of them so that this doesn't happen...i realise that this takes money but its the only way of ensuring you don't lose the ride. i know if i was ploughing £££s into top eventers i would want to see a good return for my money....
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From my point of view as an owner, I can see that the way Georgie went about this is wrong and im sure she will regret the decision in the future as im sure she will loose fans and trust from fellows peers and competitors. However, it is a compliment to which ever owners they have approached and the owners can choose to ignore it or act on it.

If an owner is happy about the way the horses are looked after, ridden, competed and travelled then they are not likely to move just because they have had a letter sent to them!

However, if they are unhappy with one of the above then the fact that Georgie has contacted them still doesn't mean they would necessarily choose her.... they might see what other eventers have to offer and include Georgie in there search for other options.

Unfortunately too many riders.. especially young riders... see a horse as there's as soon as they start riding it and competing it. It is an owners decision what's best for there horse.... In these poor economic times it is an expensive sport and you have to find what works best and who can give you the best return for your money your ploughing into your horse.

For those who say its a sport and not a business that's rubbish... it is a business as well. Its cut throat and those who get the results, achieve sponsors and therefore find new rides are thinking in a professional business manner. These riders are self -employed and pay wages, taxes and although its a vocational job.... its still a job where they are there own boss.
 
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From my point of view as an owner, I can see that the way Georgie went about this is wrong and im sure she will regret the decision in the future as im sure she will loose fans and trust from fellows peers and competitors.

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That would depeend on the content of the letters sent surely?
If it was polite and well put I cant see how it would damage her reputation.
Cant see anything wrong with letting owners know what you can offer and asking to be considered in the future should they have a horse that might suit.
OFC,a rude or "I can do better then whoever you currently have" is goign to go down like a lead baloon and mean a lost of lost respect-but at the start of a career,you ahve to gamble a bit to get the rides in to begin with.
 
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That would depeend on the content of the letters sent surely?
If it was polite and well put I cant see how it would damage her reputation.
Cant see anything wrong with letting owners know what you can offer and asking to be considered in the future should they have a horse that might suit.
OFC,a rude or "I can do better then whoever you currently have" is goign to go down like a lead baloon and mean a lost of lost respect-but at the start of a career,you ahve to gamble a bit to get the rides in to begin with.

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I was trying to comment on this last night but couldn't manage to on my phone! I just wanted to say that I think this point is crucial - I agree wholeheartedly that the content of the letter is key.

I must admit that, in the context of the OP's anger, I concluded that the letters were very much along the lines of "I can do better than what you are getting at the moment", which is a questionable approach in a number of ways (however true or otherwise). If they were merely an advertisement of services offered, however, I feel a little differently. It does come down to what was in the letters, and to whom they were sent, and these are questions to which we are unlikely to gain definitve answers it would appear! Interesting debate, though, with good points made on both sides
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but the OP said GS is asking owners 'to buy her horses' - so does that not mean to buy her different horses, and not that shes looking to steal anyones current rides? Or does she mean to buy Georgie Spence's current horses so she can keep affording to ride them?
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