Who is at fault if horse cannot keep a shoe on?

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*Spyda*

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My horse is losing the same shoe over and over and over. I do not know what to do. Find a new farrier or blame the horse? Farrier says fault is with the horse, saying it has typical TB feet (horse is Polish WB!) and thin walls. To make matters worse the horse is very pigeon toed on this front, so no doubt doesn't help matters. The horse is in very light ridden work and looses the shoe in the paddock every 2 weeks without fail. Hoof is now raggy and over nailed from repeated frequent shoeing. This problem has been going on for months now. Farrier isn't changing anything and I'm getting desperate. WWYD?
 
Can you take some photos of your horse's hooves, Side, front, rear and sole shots? Have the camera really low to the ground except for when you take the sole photos. Then could you post the photos on this thread. I'm wondering if his hoof balance is wrong (eg, long toes).

As a side note - 'typical TB hooves' is a phrase that drives me potty. Tb's can have wonderful hooves that are beautifully balanced and have great quality horn if they are given the correct care.
 
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Try not to see it as the fault of someone or the horse but as a situation that needs sorting by growing healthier hooves. There's no other solution until they devise a way to replace hooves with false ones. Hooves are living structures and they get sick.
What could the farrier do if the hoof cant hold a shoe anymore?
 
I really dont know frankly. But the farrier is the expert and I would expect some suggestion to have been made by now; repeatedly shoeing with the same type of shoe in the same manner obviously isn't working. My horse has had an excellent, carefully managed diet from birth and is now 7. Even the farrier agrees nothing more can be done nutritionally. I do not think it is acceptable for a shoe to be lost over and over and over. Something must be wrong and my question was, what could it be.
 
If he's always pulling off the same shoe that implies that he's not entirely level.....I have a horse who broke down and has come back into work this year, he appears and feels sound but he loses the shoe on his injured leg regularly. I assume he compensates for his weaker leg in some way.
 
Although there may well be a wall quality problem, as a farrier who was referred many horses with this problem, I would say the likelihood is there is a conflict between the shoe and the horses action, leading to further problems with the foot.
I now treat all my referrals with barefoot methods, but still help lots of farriers with this kind of problem.
I do not diagnose, give a prognosis or treat without a referral, but would be quite willing to help all I can if you wish to PM me.
The fact that it is one shoe that is being lost all the time is a good sign when it comes to making a prognosis.
You may find this helpfull http://www.rockfoot.com/shoeing.html
 
My recently purchased TB kept loosing a certain shoe, I gt a new farrier an he came along assed the feet insisted in seeing the lost shoe. With this he gt a picture of how he thought the horse was pulling of the shoe. The inside wall had been torn but only were the nail were and the outside bit of the shoe on the outside edge was really worn, with this he thought it could have been doing it while getting up in its box shifting the shoe an bursting the nails out the side of the shoe with something as simple as a 3rd clip on the back half of the shoe to stop this movement the problem was solved. Also if it has weak crumbly walls try vettecc eqiuthane packing in its feet to take weight off the wall and allow it to recover.
 
Correct farriery work can get the worst pigeon toes nearly straight without causing imbalance, probably too mich flare on the inside of the hoof, shoe too big and sitting out at back of hoof heel so hind foot pulling it off, the problem with TB feet has resulted from farriers letting toes get too long, and causing underrun heels, they need to backp up the toe, leave the heels alone so they can grow, a shorter hoof makes for a tighter fit of the internal structure and more hoof wall to put a nail in, if toe is long then nail will be put low in the hoof where the wall has no thickness, check out your horses feet and kick your farriers butler
 
putasocinit said:
Correct farriery work can get the worst pigeon toes nearly straight without causing imbalance,
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I don't believe this. They can hide it, but they can't hide it and not cause imbalance either in the foot, in the joints higher up the leg, or both.

probably too mich flare on the inside of the hoof, shoe too big and sitting out at back of hoof heel so hind foot pulling it off, the problem with TB feet has resulted from farriers letting toes get too long, and causing underrun heels, they need to backp up the toe, leave the heels alone so they can grow, a shorter hoof makes for a tighter fit of the internal structure and more hoof wall to put a nail in, if toe is long then nail will be put low in the hoof where the wall has no thickness, check out your horses feet and kick your farriers butler
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Wow!!!! You can tell all that without even seeing a photograph of the horse. :eek: ???
 
A farrier canot keep a shoe on a foot with crumbled broken walls .
Horses need breaks from shoeing and some horses need more shoeless time than others .
Diet changes can help to improve both the quality and speed of horn growth .
I have a pidgeon toed horse he does best with quarter clips on the front shoes this makes it easier to keep his breakover back without adjusting his natural pidgeon toed stance in the past farriers had tried to straighten the feet to the eye a fruitless exercise as its his limb that's deviated this caused him to get nasty splints which a year working without shoes sorted out .
It's worth videoing your horse and looking at how he places his feet on the ground in slow motion this may give you insight into what he's doing.
No quick fixes but lots of stuff an owner can do to make the farriers job easier.
 
Is it worth sticking some over reach boots on the stretchy rubber ones seem good for this purpose. Might prevent horse pulling them off whilst you deal with cause
 
Has he just started loosing them recently? Could just be that is much wetter ground now and they slide about more, mine has lost the same shoe twice since the ground has got wetter, my neighbour also had the same problem with his horse different farrier too.

I put some over reach boots on in winter in the field it can help stop them treading on the other shoe and pulling it off.
 
My mare was always losing shoes, usually the right front. Some of this was down to a poor diet, so I changed that, but I couldn't help but think maybe a different farriery approach would complement the other changes, so I moved her from the farrier she came with to my regular farrier. Now, I don't know if her changed diet (Formula4Feet-fab stuff) or the dry summer or the change in farrier but she hasn't lost any shoes since changing her over, and she carries herself a lot better, except one time when she over reached and pulled one off.
 
It is very easy for us farriers to see all deviations as something that needs correcting.
When presented with a pigeon toed, or dishing foot I first need to find out where it is coming from.
And whether it is from deviation, rotation or both.
A horse with large pectoral muscles and short coupling will (I hope) have a degree of pigeon toed presentation, this will often show as rotation from as high up as the scapular, if this was not the case the horse will often not be good on the forehand.
To try and correct this IMO would be a mistake, and when I was shoeing I would only offer more support ( in width) to the lateral ¼
Most horses break-over to the lateral side, after all they have a leg in each corner, not in the middle!!
So I would take issue with ‘putasocinit’ in the fact that you are trying to straighten without ‘causing an imbalance’ if the horse is moving as it is intended then any deviation will cause an imbalance to the horse.
We have to get away from what WE believe to be right and start to learn and teach what the horse wants in order to be balanced and stay sound.
 
This is a very similar situation to mine last year. TB kept losing shoes and he blamed it on her breed and her crap feet. Yet farrier didn't suggest anything else or try anything else even after being seen by numerous vets and having lameness problems for the best part of the year while her feet were deteriorating. In turn, I didn't know enough about diet or anything to do with the whole barefoot thing and didn't have a clue how to fix it. So was it my fault for not giving her the best chance to grow some healthy hooves or the farriers, as the expert, for not coming up with any alternatives? All I know is it wasn't her fault. Now I've clued up she's coming along well barefoot with a trimmer and the old farrier hates us haha! I'd say have a break from shoes and read up as much as you can on hoof health on here.
 
When I first took my horses shoes off 4 months ago because he was diagnosed with collateral ligament desmitis, my vet and farrier told me he couldnt go without shoes. Vet said, if his feet keep breaking up like this you will have to put shoes back on him! Guess what, now 4 months later no breaking at all. Much stronger feet, ok not rock crunching yet, but trots comfortably on all surfaces apart from stones. His old hoof wall has about another centimetre until it has grown completely out when I expect even stronger more attached horn to have replaced it. Dont believe everything you are told by hoofcare professionals. The hoof has amazing qualities and can indeed heal itself given the right support and environment. (Nutrition is massive) Good luck whatever you decide to do.
 
Use Keratex hoof hardener as it is very effective at closing up nail holes.

Whenever feet get wet the holes holding shoes on become enlarged and the shoe works loose.
Keratex prevents this from happening and will help to keep shoes on whilst allowing the foot to breathe at the same time.
 
amandap said:
Try not to see it as the fault of someone or the horse but as a situation that needs sorting by growing healthier hooves. There's no other solution until they devise a way to replace hooves with false ones. Hooves are living structures and they get sick.
What could the farrier do if the hoof cant hold a shoe anymore?
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This. Brilliantly put.
 
P
applecart14 said:
Use Keratex hoof hardener as it is very effective at closing up nail holes.

Whenever feet get wet the holes holding shoes on become enlarged and the shoe works loose.
Keratex prevents this from happening and will help to keep shoes on whilst allowing the foot to breathe at the same time.
Click to expand...

Anyone else use Keratex like this ?
 
Goldenstar said:
P

Anyone else use Keratex like this ?
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This is from their website
Keratex Hoof Hardener

Keratex Hoof Hardener formula is patented and includes a unique flexibility agent as well as a hardening agent, making this the perfect product to protect your horse from: brittle, cracked, soft or weak hooves; soft, sensitive or thin soles; repeated shoe loss; transition to barefoot; hoof damage.

OR YOU CAN BUY NAIL HOLE DAMAGE REPAIR

Keratex Nail Hole Damage Repair

Keratex Nail Hole Damage Repair is a great item for your grooming kit. Using the specially designed precision nozzle, simply squirt the liquid into new, old or stressed-looking nail holes to flush them with this instant cleansing and repairing solution. Once you have flooded the nail holes, the liquid gets to work, flushing out and repairing the nail holes, also cleansing and hardening both the interior and the point where the nail entered the hoof, ensuring that existing damage, gaps or rips will not develop further and will not ‘ladder’ up or across the hoof. This product is very effective on hooves that suffer from problems in the double-stress area around new and old nail holes.

Keratex Nail Hole Damage Repair is available in a 200ml squeezy bottle.
 
Every shod horse should have a break from shoes yearly. Especially if your horse is only in light work now with softer ground would imo be a good time to get the shoes off for a few months and let the feet have a break.

I don't agree about correcting conformation faults like pigeon toes. These can possibly be helped by good balance from birth, but to change the natural conformation would impact elsewhere on the horse's joints. The farrier should always look at the horse in front of him and never try to create some picture of perfection.
 
Faracat said:
As a side note - 'typical TB hooves' is a phrase that drives me potty. Tb's can have wonderful hooves that are beautifully balanced and have great quality horn if they are given the correct care.
Click to expand...

Yep, ours are barefoot ex racers... One competing at PSG and the other ready to debut at Medium.

Some horses need a little more help than others, but it can be done.

amandap said:
Try not to see it as the fault of someone or the horse but as a situation that needs sorting by growing healthier hooves. There's no other solution until they devise a way to replace hooves with false ones. Hooves are living structures and they get sick.
What could the farrier do if the hoof cant hold a shoe anymore?
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
You can not lay all blame on the farrier- they are only doing what they have been trained to do.

My horse has recently gone barefoot and the biggest change has been altering his diet. The growth has been incredible and I have now realised that I was the only person who could actually improve his feet.

I am another who has been told time and time again that my horse just has 'typical tb feet'- well they now look fantastic and he will never have shoes on again.
 
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