who is liable?

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sheddy00

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I have a house with 5 stables and a field., I rent out the stables with turnout, mainly to friends. But one of them has a horse that is quite nasty. She has had a go at quite a few of us and quite often tries to attack anyone that goes in the field to get their horse. One friends daughter has started letting a girl who is 16 go up to see to her horse. Yesterday she got cornered by the nasty horse and was kicked.. am I liable? Or is it the horses owner? Any advice would be most welcome..
 
I have public liability attached to my household insurance as a public footpath runs along part of our drive and people do daft things like fall over in unsuitable shoes, hitch bikes to the fence and get them stolen.

I also have public liability insurance on my yearlings just in case they get out or hurt someone.

Do you ask to see proof that people using your yard/property have public liability insurance, it probably shutting door after horse has bolted, but it always good to have a check that people do what you expect.

I think that the NFU has a help line that can advise their members on these sort of issues.
 
dont panic. yes running a livery you need insurance, but for someone to claim they must prove that you are at fault. As far as i can see someone entered a field at their own risk. Horses are horses and nothing that you did made the horse kick this girl.
 
I have public liability insurance. Girl has a very nasty bruise ans a cut.. but thankfully no broken bones.. her mother in soo not happy though..
 
yes, it's you who's responsible, and I hate to say it, but if it's known that this horse is a kicker, by yourself as the YO, I think you are liable on your yard insurance if a claim is made.

I guess the moral of this story is to not allow kickers to share fields, or not have them at all, and to be well insured in case it does happen. And certainly not let anyone into the field with a kicker.
 
shugmx said:
dont panic. yes running a livery you need insurance, but for someone to claim they must prove that you are at fault. As far as i can see someone entered a field at their own risk. Horses are horses and nothing that you did made the horse kick this girl.
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I used to think this was the case untill a friend of mine was claimed against from someone who was using Right of way through her land, technically they entered at their own risk. Puplic liability covers you for injury to a member of the publilc entering your premises, be it through the running of livery yard, ROW or tresspassing. As the yard owner i would expect the buck to stop with you, especially as you knew it was kicker/nasty. Whether any claim was successful is another matter entirely, but the mother would be perfectly within her rights to persue you.
 
I'm really sensitive about kickers in fields - my first pony had his leg kicked clean off (bar skin and tendons), by a known kicker - and she was grazing happily with blood all over her. I was 13. My parents should have sued the owner for all she was worth, my pony was in a coma when I found him. The first vet only had injections, had to wait for a second vet with a gun.

Please don't take the chance !
 
shysmum said:
I'm really sensitive about kickers in fields - my first pony had his leg kicked clean off (bar skin and tendons), by a known kicker - and she was grazing happily with blood all over her. I was 13. My parents should have sued the owner for all she was worth, my pony was in a coma when I found him.
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Jesus!!!! Was the horses insurance was liable? I fully agree if its caused damage that costs money, loss of earnings or actual injuries - eg, broken bones.
If its cut and bruises you need to just get on with it. Although if the horse is a known kicker I wouldn't be happy to share a field with it. I think the best thing to do OP is to ask kicky-horses owner to leave before others leave instead!
 
Yup, insurance covered it, but at 13 I had no idea it was a known kicker, till that happened. Then the truth came out, and this horse was evicted, as other liveries complained.

maybe my experience has made me over sensitive, sorry.
 
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If there was a sign up or you could prove that the girl knew the horse was dangerous than that would really start to muddy the waters. Worth a call to your insurance quickly but I would also take advice from them as to how to cover yourself. Though keeping the dangerous mare away would seem to be a logical course of action. Years ago, I was lent a mare who could be a complete cow.She was fine with me, then worked out she could terrorise the kids who wanted to get their ponies out earlier in the afternoon. As soon as I got wind of that I took the mare out and she was turned out alone in her own field. Cue some whining that I had my own field till I said I was very happy for the mare to go back out in the group.

Providing those complaining committed to catching in said mare before the children needed to get their ponies. Conversation ... over!
 
I'd agree with the others that you might be considered liable but it is worth questioning what the owner had told the girl about her horse's nature in advance.

It was once the case that a lot of lawsuits against riding schools found against them and there were lots of reports of RS' closing as a result of the settlements and insurance implications. However more recently that same type of lawsuits have found in their favour, and ruled that horse riding is dangerous and the individual should be aware of this.

Hope it works out, your friend sounds irresponsible tbh and a liability for you.
 
shysmum said:
I'm really sensitive about kickers in fields - my first pony had his leg kicked clean off (bar skin and tendons), by a known kicker - and she was grazing happily with blood all over her. I was 13. My parents should have sued the owner for all she was worth, my pony was in a coma when I found him. The first vet only had injections, had to wait for a second vet with a gun.

Please don't take the chance !
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Sounds horrific, poor pony..x
 
Each of the horse owners should have third party public liability cover of no less than £10,000,000 (Ten million Pounds). Ensure that they do as many insurance companies do not provide this level of cover. This level of cover was demonstrated as a result of a recent court case - Animals act 1971 Section 2 (2) as now interpreted by the highest court in the land says that we are liable for any accidents caused by our horses. This is as a result of the Mirvahedy v Henley case. If you are a Gold member of the BHS you get this cover with your membership as well as access to their free legal advice line.

If you are running a yard which you are then you are running a business and you need a business insurance policy. Your household policy will not be sufficient.

You should take advice from a specialist equestrian solicitor if a claim is made against you and or the horse owner.
 
shysmum said:
I'm really sensitive about kickers in fields - my first pony had his leg kicked clean off (bar skin and tendons), by a known kicker - and she was grazing happily with blood all over her. I was 13. My parents should have sued the owner for all she was worth, my pony was in a coma when I found him. The first vet only had injections, had to wait for a second vet with a gun.

Please don't take the chance !
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Shysmum, how horrific and tragic for you. :( That must have been a devastating experience for a 13 year old. Poor pony and poor, poor you. :(:(
 
I do believe the landowner would be responsible if anyone was injured by a horse kicking someone whilst turned out. You know what you know, this horse is very dangerous. What if the girl had been kicked in the head?

I say either fence of a secure paddock for the horse to graze alone and put signs up telling people the horse is dangerous or ask the owner to find somewhere more suitable
 
Do you get your liveries to sign an agreement that includes that they have Public Liability insurance?

As for the footpath - if someone is on a footpath it is Highways liability - if they stray off the footpath it is the landowners liability. Strange but true.
 
Sorry to hear about your old pony :( how awful!!

I agree think it is with you, howevever dont think its right (in my opinion) although i dont like the law in this country :mad:. If the mother if this girl knew this horse was dangeruous she should have kept her away, or sent her in wearing a hat. Or now you know the horse could be seperated or evicted or signs put up all these are good suggestions.

Personally she entered the field and everyone knows the risks when we enter a field, handle horses, ride horses etc .... soooo think the mother needs to get off her high horse - pardon the pun :p
 
A friend of mine who was on a livery yard has a claim going on against her. Her horse kicked out at another horse and caught the other horses owner. She is taking the owner to court not the yard owner. Saying that the owner knew the horse could be nasty towards other horses, which the owner strongly denies. The case is still on going so cannot say who has been found liable. And solicitors are involved.
 
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