Who is liable?

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ChestnutHunter

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My mare was turned out alone in the field, and my yard owner gave permission for a gelding to be put out with her without my consent, or prior knowledge. My mare is very quiet, and as a result she has come in hopping lame. The other horse had not a scratch on it.
The vet has been out twice and is due to come up again, she has severe muscle damage near her hock on her hind left, very swollen tendons and is on box rest. The vet said their is a possibility of hairline fractures but I should leave for 7 days to check for improvement. Her hind right also has a swollen lump on it. The vet suspects that my mare has been double barreled and has stood and taken it, he also said if it would have had shoes on then my mare will have no doubt be left with a broken leg. They then took the gelding out and left my mare lame in the field.
As I had no idea this was going to happen would the yard owner be responsible? My mare was due to go out on full loan this coming Saturday. I am going to be left with some very hefty vets bills, more livery charges to pay etc.

Where do I stand?
 
No idea where you stand legally but I would be more than annoyed in your situation! Has your YO offered an explanation on why the gelding was put in with your mare? So lucky the gelding had no shoes on but that's beside the point, it shouldn't have happened behind your back! Hope your mare recovers ok with no serious damage
 
Are you trying to wriggle out of your vets bill, or do you just want to apportion blame for peace of mind?
Had you categorically stated that your horse had to have lone turnout, then I guess you can blame the YO. Trying to get money out of her though will probably be tough.
Otherwise, it's just bad luck I guess, horses will be horses.
 
Unless you have any witnesses to what may have gone on in the field, I don't imagine you have a case. And even so, the courts may well say 'that's horses'....

Do you have a livery contract that states you must be told if another horse is introduced to your horses grazing? That is the only thing I can think of that would help.

I hope I am wrong and so sorry for you and your mare.
 
My horse is fine turned out with anything, I thought it was common courtesy and an unwritten rule that an owner should be asked before a new horse it turned out with another?!
The money is not the problem, the principle is really the point. It has also left other people on the yard wondering when the same will happen to them. My horse was a summer project, so I do not have alot of money to spare however. I don't believe this should have ever happened?
 
Sorry to hear what's happened, not a very nice situation

My thought is you wouldn't have a case against the yard owner, horses will be horses. I would try and stay polite and tactfully discuss a discount off on going livery costs that will be incurred while you wait for in injury to heal. They may well say no but I'd say it more likely than getting them to pay the vets bills.
 
sadly is probably nothing you can do.

We had a similar thing happen where i worked. Lady who ran the place had specifically been told that one mare was a kicker so keep her away from any vunerable horses.

Went up to find said mare had been put out with the old rickety mare had kicked her and broken her leg, witnessed by other liveries!!

Unfortunately there was nothing owner could do as to blaming other livery as yard manager put the horse in not the owner so old girls owner ended up with a hefty vets bill and no horse to show for it!
 
I would be livid, in the main because you werent informed of the change of field set up in advance and by the sounds of it, theyve just chucked the gelding in without thinking. it never ceases to amaze me how little respect others have for horses when they dont belong to them, and im sorry but the horses will be horses thing is just a cop out, it sounds like theres been no thought what so ever as to how to properly introduce these horses and how this would affect any of the horses and owners, the owner not even being told of the change therefore not given the choice to decline, debate or move if it wasnt suitable That plus the fact they left your horse injured in the field without any attention, id have their arse in a slng. If youre a member of the BHS seek legal advice and also if the yard is BHS approved report the incident
 
Morally the YO should have let you know of her plans - but it might not have changed anything - unless you would have refused to let the YO go ahead with the turn out?

Legally I suspect unless your contract specifically states that your mare has to have individual turn out then there is nothing you can do - even if it did it would be a hell of a job going to court to claim the costs back from the YO.

Horses will be horses and that is something we have to accept. I had 2 geldings who'd been turned out together for more than 6 years - both at a big livery yard in a herd and at home here in a small group - never a problem - until one day, one kicked the other one in the hock, resulting in emergancy joint flush and bone chips removed - goodbye £3500.
 
catroo said:
Sorry to hear what's happened, not a very nice situation

My thought is you wouldn't have a case against the yard owner, horses will be horses. I would try and stay polite and tactfully discuss a discount off on going livery costs that will be incurred while you wait for in injury to heal. They may well say no but I'd say it more likely than getting them to pay the vets bills.
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Agree with Catroo. Horrible situation, but horses are horses sadly and things like this happen. Unless you have a written contact specifically relating to turn out procedures you are stuffed.
 
I doubt that you will get anything.

4 Years ago a new mare was put out in my field- no knowledge this was due to happen, on a sunday, my mare had her back end totally utterly ruined, had put down a deposit to use a stallion two days before and vets opening comment was " you weren't wanting to breed were you?"
Turns out the day before (I had been at a show and didn't turnout) it had chased a retired mare in out field till it collapsed, but they thought nothing of chucking it out the next day again (not the retired mare).
I didn't even get a sorry, had to pay all the vets bills myself and changed Stallions and lost my deposit.
YO said not there fault, owner said no one saw her horse do it.
 
If it was me i would be livid with yo and i would want them to pay for at least something, if not towards some of the vet bill i would want the livery to be paid for while she was on box rest. Now back to the real world. I think your going to have to lump it as i cant see anyone putting their hand in their pocket when they know they can get away with a "oh well thats horses for you" Sorry. I understand where your coming from, i would want an apology for not asking permission to have the gelding share my mares turnout.

As for Quirky... Bit harsh isn't it?? Why do you assume op is trying to wriggle out of paying for anything? At no point in original post is there any hint of her trying to do that.

Its worth speaking to someone but i agree with polos mum.
Hope your mare mends quickly.
 
Whilst i totally agree 100% that horses will be horses i do question sometimes how horses are introduced in fields. i have to ask if- and i say if- the two in OP post hadnt grazed together previouly were they adequatly supervised to ensure they had settled. We should all know and follow rules of introducing horses together(sadly lacking in my old yard). If thats done correctly the chances of accidents is reduced.
 
It very much depends on whether the gelding was known to do stuff like that. If not, then it was something that was unforeseeable, and YOs can and do mix horses up if they feel there is no risk (which would have been the case if he had no history of kicking). The only answer is to have your own individual patches, which you fence and maintain, but have others' horses adjoining. Never very satisfactory IMO. I will mix horses if I think they are safe, but I do watch them until they have settled, as babymare says - did anyone do that?
 
If you have BHS/BD membership then call their legal helplines, otherwise your horse insurer may have a helpline to call.

You may be able to claim against either YO or the other horse's owner for "uninsured losses" but you'd really need some legal advice to help you along the way of this.

A friend of mine's horse was kicked by another, resulting in a fracture which required surgery. She took legal action and the other owner's insurance co paid out half of the money for the vet treatment, which my friend was able to keep 100% of - which was just as well as the treatment went well above her insurance limit so even this amount she won didn't quite cover what she'd paid for above her insurance limit.
 
Marydoll said:
I would be livid, in the main because you werent informed of the change of field set up in advance and by the sounds of it, theyve just chucked the gelding in without thinking. it never ceases to amaze me how little respect others have for horses when they dont belong to them, and im sorry but the horses will be horses thing is just a cop out, it sounds like theres been no thought what so ever as to how to properly introduce these horses and how this would affect any of the horses and owners, the owner not even being told of the change therefore not given the choice to decline, debate or move if it wasnt suitable That plus the fact they left your horse injured in the field without any attention, id have their arse in a slng. If youre a member of the BHS seek legal advice and also if the yard is BHS approved report the incident
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I'm with Marydoll. Any YO who knows anything about horses wouldn't just stick 2 together in a field without introducing them properly. Thank goodness the gelding was unshod. I do hope your mare improves quickly.
 
There are a few aspects you need to consider

What exactly is in your contract? (do you pay for lone turn out or shared? What are the arrangements if field mates need to be changed/swapped? Is the YO required to give you notice of changes?)

What is the approach to introducing new horses? (Do they put in adjoining paddocks first? Do they chuck them in and just let get on with it? What level of supervision is there?)

What does the YO know about the usual temperament of both you horse and the new one? (Have they risk assessed likelihood of one winding up the other,? Was one likely to be pushy with the other?)

Was the new horse's owner honest with YO? (Did they say he was mild mannered and a softy when really he is known to kick? Has he done this before but YO was not told?)

You don't necessarily need a witness to what happened if the vet can be reasonably certain that the injury was caused by another horse and she could not have done it herself (eg slipping over, kicking at fence etc) if YO accepts the two were turned out together.

Liability is really going to depend on these things, it is not clear cut.

Would you be angry if they were turned out together but no injury was caused to your horse?

You should expect YO to take reasonable care in their performance of the contract they have with you. If their standard practice is to chuck horses in together with no supervision or introduction and you knew this then you really have got what you paid for. If you feel they have not acted in the way you expect under terms of contract then you may have a case.

If you want to pursue it it would probably be sensible to have a calm discussion with YO, explaining this is not what you expected and invite explanation as to why they did what you consider reckless. You may be able to reach an amicable solution.
 
Your yard owner has a 'Duty of Care' towards your horse.
If an agreement was made with the yard that your horse had individual turn-out and they put another horse in your field then you have a case.
However legal proceedings come at both a financial and emotional cost.
Your other course of action would be to make a claim for your vets fees etc. against the yard owner and owner of the other horse. This could be done through the small claims court. You can do this on-line.
Again this may cause bad feeling at your yard.
 
I had an issue with my horse when he was on full care, being given a tiny bed etc, I lost my rag and told yo that any injuries my horse got including capped hocks she would be paying for and I wouldn't pay for the days full care...it worked
 
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