Who is responsible for fencing ?

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bobbieg

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Hi everyone,
If I rent a field from a yard owner (without a contract) and fencing is faulty allowing animals to stray onto yard owners other property apparently causing damage, who is responsible for the cost of damage? Yard owner is requesting I pay for damages to her property, however I believe that she is responsible for maintaining the fencing in the first place. Where do I stand?
Also as BHS legal line is not accessible until Monday, any suggestions as to where I can get some advice today?
 
I wouldn't have thought you'll get proper legal advice on a Sunday from anywhere

From the sounds of it you would be liable I'm afraid. It's your choice to put your animals in an unsecured area. Do you have third party insurance?

I rent a field and I'm responsible for the fencing but have a contract detailing this
 
I'm assuming the land owner and the yard owner are the same person? Although there is some common law duty owed by the land owner to the renter to ensure that the land is safe this does not always extend to a responsibility to maintain fencing. That will depend on the circumstances, how you notified the land owner of a deficiency and even what type of stock you were keeping there.

Liability for damage also varies with the type of livestock you kept there. Assuming (as this is a horse based forum!) that this was a horse then liability is strict and the likelihood is that you are liable pretty much regardless. You need to get onto whoever you have your third party liability insurance with and let them handle it.

If the landowner is not the yard owner then you are going to be at least jointly liable with the landowner; but even then more likely solely liable if this is a horse.

And perhaps fix the fencing yourself in the meantime? If your animals can get out and cause damage they also risk damage to themselves!
 
Thanks for replies. I have third party liability.
Thing is they've never given any proof that this actually happened despite me asking to be shown damage and for photographic proof, they've said that it's been repaired now, and I was not notified until later that day when they had apparently repaired all the damage.
The ponies are no longer using this field so no risk any further.
I am currently serving notice at the yard and have been told I cannot remove the ponies until the damages are paid for (£180), but like I say I'm not sure it ever occurred. They have told me I must pay in cash as they will not wait for insurance to pay out.
The person who was renting the field to me actually rents it from the landowner herself.
 
Sorry I think I've worded it wrongly. I do not solely rent the field but pay to graze my ponies there. There are also other ponies in the field owned by her family members but apparently only nylon posted it's escaped and only I'm being asked to pay.
 
So who wants the money the landowner or the person that is renting the yard, who rented the field to you, if it is the landowner then I think they need to wait for insurance to pay out if they can prove the damage, if it is the person who sub let to you I would want to see evidence and have a detailed invoice for the work done, I would certainly not pay cash without a proper invoice/ receipt.
I am unsure what damage can cost £180 to fix that could be done by ponies and could be fixed so quickly, getting onto a growing crop could cause a fair amount of damage but will still be easily seen, a bit of fencing being damaged again should be easy to see even after repair.

Your insurance company will offer legal advice but are very unlikely to pay if the fencing was faulty.
 
Thank you Be Positive
It's the person subletting who is demanding the cash.
I have asked for evidence, photos / receipts and a list, all she gave me was a letter stating my ponies had entered her garden and caused damage to the tune of £180. But there is no details as to how that figure has been come to.
 
If any of my liveries got into my garden I would be cross but not with the liveries with myself for allowing the fencing to get into such a state that they could get in, I would also be concerned that they could have got off the property onto the road, the last thing that would occur to me is to expect the cost of repairing the damage to be paid by the livery, it would simply not come into my mind.

I am unsure of the legal aspect of her stopping you removing your horses, without a contract in place to cover this I think she is acting outside the law, not to mention pushing her luck anyway, I know what I would do but it may be difficult if the place is locked up or you feel they may take action in a physical way against you or your ponies, no wonder YO's get bad reputations and are considered by many people to be mad.
 
Do you have anywhere else to put your ponies yet? If so then I'd simply quitely remove any additional bits and bobs you have there one day in the morning and take pony/ponies far 'hack' in the afternoon and not come back. They'll be expecting you to remove your stuff anyway if you're on notice.

I know people talk about keeping a good reputation as a customer but there is also keeping a good reputation as a manager (or whatever proper word is for the lady uou rent from!). I wouldn't expect one person to pay for damage to fencing in a shared field unless it was really clear it was that person's responsibility e.g. they had alerted manager their pony cribbed and agreed up front to pay for damage.

This obviously is only one side of the story but it sounds a bit opportunistic/like sour grapes to me.
 
I would ensure your livery bill itself is up to date and move horses asap when no one is around or the other option go for long hack and never come back. I'd send/leave a letter to say you have seeked legal advice and before you can pay for any damage you require exact details of damage,evidence of damage and copies of the invoices for the repair, if you were to claim off insurance this is what they would require. If you can't get horses off property id go with staying put as long as horses are safe and follow the second part above.
 
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Thank you for your replies.
I do have somewhere to go and will be leaving the yard shortly. They have taken a £200 deposit from me too which is my concern. I don't think I will get this back, as they have spent this week nit picking every detail which may have caused me to break contract with them, including stating that I'd left the pony without adequate water when in fact he'd knocked his water over. Accusing me of neglect is absured, I'm always the first one there to my ponies and they are very well looked after.
I will get legal advice email on Monday but wondering if I should approach the police and get the details logged should there be any problems when I actually move the ponies.
 
I don't think you will see the £200 and guess that is where the £180 figure has come from, they should just have said they will be keeping it to cover the "damage" and left it at that rather than trying to get cash from you, get the advice and be prepared to leave quickly.
 
Thank you so much Be Positive for your replies.
The whole situation had really got me down this morning. I've never had anything like this before in 30 years of keeping horses, I'd only been at this yard for 2 months, I thought I'd done the right thing moving the ponies there. Still a few more days to get through and I will be gone.
I'm going to 'edit' some posts now just in case they spot the thread , how do I do that? 😕
 
I thought you didn't have a contract? Does it just not say anything about field maintence. Can you not use the deposit to say your outstanding livery before you leave otherwise I don't think you'll be seeing that deposit again.
 
No I didn't have a contract when I was using the field, I stopped using it as soon as they asked me for this money and started looking for elsewhere, a few days later they requested I sign a contract for the stables, which I did and I believe they done that to be able to 'get rid' of me as the day I was going to hand my notice in they gave me a letter stating my ponies were neglected and I had breached their contract.
 
bobbieg said:
Thank you so much Be Positive for your replies.
The whole situation had really got me down this morning. I've never had anything like this before in 30 years of keeping horses, I'd only been at this yard for 2 months, I thought I'd done the right thing moving the ponies there. Still a few more days to get through and I will be gone.
I'm going to 'edit' some posts now just in case they spot the thread , how do I do that? ��
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You cannot edit unless you pm admin and they agree to remove the posts/ thread, it may be worth a try but I don't think there is anything on here anyone can use against you.
 
Person sub renting is chancing it, especially as there is no proof of damage and they want the money in cash! Move your ponies and if they try anything then tell them if they want to sue for breach of contract then they are welcome to.
 
If you take it on rent without a contract more fool you, you should always have a contract drawn up when renting anything. If you start the rent with no discussion on the fencing then your accepting the fencing as it is and you need to keep it secure.
 
Good advice from Be Positive.

As an aside; does the land owner know the renter is sub-letting to you? If they are being nasty I would be inclined to go over their heads, straight to the land owner and tell them what is happening/has happened, that you are being billed for fencing repairs that can't be proven to be your fault. If they shrug their shoulders, fair enough but they might look into it for you especially if YO doesn't have a right to sub let.
 
bobbieg said:
Sorry I think I've worded it wrongly. I do not solely rent the field but pay to graze my ponies there. There are also other ponies in the field owned by her family members but apparently only nylon posted it's escaped and only I'm being asked to pay.
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Tell her to do one and remove your horses.
 
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