who is right me - inexpereinced or an experienced person??

T

Therightone

Active Member
Joined
18 November 2014
Messages
38
Location
South Wales, United Kingdom
Visit site
Ok I am pretty new to owning horses and the person I am renting stables from has over 50+ years working and caring for horses he has been giving me advice but I don't agree but who am I to know better?

ok I have a 18 year old TB, turned away at the moment. That lost a lot of weight when coming to me. I have her on Alfalfa mollass free with bailys topline number 4 and veg oil. Two feeds a day. Gaining weight lovely.

The guy has said I shouldn't feed any of that it is a waste. I should feed a cheap bag of molichaff and oats. although he commented she is looking lovely with a glossy coat.

The other thing is the wheather at the moment is pretty hot (I'm walking around in a vest top today!) but he is telling me to keep her in a 200g medium weight combo as it gets cold in the night but I am feeling this is way to warm. I want her in a lightweight no fill or even naked and maybe a 100g/no fill for the night but with no neck. ??

I feel wrong thinking I am right compared to him?

So looking for others input so to rest my mind.
 
With the rugging I'd agree with u during the day but him at night. Its getting lovely and warm during the day but it's blooming cold at night and u don't want her using extra energy keeping warm. Having said that if she gets too hot she'll lose weight anyway, so just keep an eye on her temperature.

Does she have access to ad lib hay or haylage?
 
I agree with you on the feed, if she's gaining weight on that then no reason to change it.

As for rugging, at this time of year I'd be swopping rugs am and pm purely because it often does drop cold overnight and with a horse that you want to put weight on better to be safe than sorry. I'd probably go with a medium weight overnight and either a 100g or rain sheet during the day, depending on the weather forecast.
 
I'd swap the veg oil for linseed or soya, and the rugging is a matter of opinion. imo if the horse has plenty to eat and shelter/stable at night and isn't dropping weight then it's fine without rug
 
As you get more experience with horses you will realise there is no definitive right or wrong answer.

Oats are a good feed and certainly cheaper, but if you feed is working then I would see no reason to change.

The rugging - well if your horse has been acclimatised to a rug over winter, and if they are currently a poor TB, then I think overnight I would be wanting them rugged still. There is no reason it couldn't come off in the day. That said provided there is sufficient grass/hay not having a rug on won't be massive detrimental.
 
Currently our horses are rugless during the day and have middle weights with no neck on at night. They are all out 24/7 as of last week, which is exceptionally early, but it's been so nice and dry so the fields have no mud. If the weather changes to very wet they will return to winter turnout routine.
 
Last edited:
I've always fed whole soaked oats, sugar beet & linseed oil. Horses look amazing. I think a lot of the conditioning feeds sold these days are so expensive and do any more for the horses condition than much cheaper straights. Imo it's all fancy advertising & colourful bags :) it's also down to old fashioned forms of feeding daunting some people. As for the rugging a 200g currently is not OTT in the current climate. If the sun is out & it feels warm take the rug off her for the day.
 
Therightone said:
Ok I am pretty new to owning horses and the person I am renting stables from has over 50+ years working and caring for horses he has been giving me advice but I don't agree but who am I to know better?

ok I have a 18 year old TB, turned away at the moment. That lost a lot of weight when coming to me. I have her on Alfalfa mollass free with bailys topline number 4 and veg oil. Two feeds a day. Gaining weight lovely.

The guy has said I shouldn't feed any of that it is a waste. I should feed a cheap bag of molichaff and oats. although he commented she is looking lovely with a glossy coat.

The other thing is the wheather at the moment is pretty hot (I'm walking around in a vest top today!) but he is telling me to keep her in a 200g medium weight combo as it gets cold in the night but I am feeling this is way to warm. I want her in a lightweight no fill or even naked and maybe a 100g/no fill for the night but with no neck. ??

I feel wrong thinking I am right compared to him?

So looking for others input so to rest my mind.
Click to expand...


Must admit mine are in a 150-200 grm combo, but then they go out at 7am when chilly but we did remove the rugs at 1pm and I turn the necks back or tuck them under. We don't have 24/7 turnout (we choose not to offer it). But horses out with rugs in the am and if the owners come up they can take the rugs off in the field as I do with mine. We don't change to nights out till the nights reach double figures which is around the end of May.

It is too early to turnout overnight IOC as our fields have only just been harrowed and one pair fertilized so we have to wait till the other side done and weedkilled and once the grass grows which it is not at the moment then yes with good weather we change but while no grass out there for them it seems senseless to change them to spend more time on a field where there is no grass or little grass.

As for food the word *cheap* which was mentioned is not the way forward - if your in doubt or want *professional* nutritional advice on what to feed- contact D&H nutritional helpline then he cannot argue or try and coax you or say your wrong. They will give you a tailored diet, I trust their advice and have used it on many many many occasions.

I personally would not ask members what to feed MY horse when they don't know them or their type breed-personalty or performance where as D&H get told everything and based on their nutrition they suggest what is best.

Depending on what type of livery your on and what is included in your monthly rent, then diet is what either you buy or feed or what you choose the horse is on within the included types of feed.
 
Last edited:
pinkypug1 said:
I've always fed whole soaked oats, sugar beet & linseed oil. Horses look amazing. I think a lot of the conditioning feeds sold these days are so expensive and do any more for the horses condition than much cheaper straights. Imo it's all fancy advertising & colourful bags :) it's also down to old fashioned forms of feeding daunting some people. As for the rugging a 200g currently is not OTT in the current climate. If the sun is out & it feels warm take the rug off her for the day.
Click to expand...

Agree with this. My TB has sugar beet, soaked oats, micronized linseed and basic high fibre cubes.

It soon gets cold when he sun goes down, he's (unclipped) still wearing a 100g rug overnight.
 
Mine are fully clipped and out during the day and in at night. It was lovely and sunny from late morning here so I took their rugs off but they have now got their middle weight rugs on as it is still chilly at night.

One of my horses has always been a problem to keep weight on (he is nearly 18.0 hh and working advanced dressage). This year I swapped him onto soaked whole oats, micronized linseed, Alfa and sugar beet and he looks the best he has ever done.
 
If your current feed is doing the job, why change it? I would be taking particular care of an 18 year old. You are a month away from good grass, so 'if it ain't broke why fix it?'

My lot are now in summer sheets, for protection from wind and rain but stabled at night. We live in Maine et Loire known for its gentle climate but nights and mornings are still cold. We won't turn out or take off rugs for another two/three weeks.
 
Sorry, Should of gave some more info. She is out 24/7 and does have ad-lib. I know her feed is expensive but I am happy with it. I just needed some other peoples advice as I said I feel silly disagreeing with somebody that is way advanced than me when it comes to horse care.

I did put her combo back on 6:30pm this evening. Thats my plan from now if wheather is lovely strip her 10am ish and put it back on in the evening.

Thank you all.
 
Therightone said:
as I said I feel silly disagreeing with somebody that is way advanced than me when it comes to horse care.
Click to expand...

Sadly as a new horse owner this is something you are going to have to get used to! Everyone will have an opinion and most of them will probably tell you it whether you asked or not. Okay some of them may have a point and you can't just discount them all offhand, but generally you try and listen to too many people and you just end up confused. For most things there isn't really a "right answer", so if you have done your homework on your current course of action (e.g. diet) and it works for you then you don't want to chop and change about unless you have a good reason to (and other people's advice on its own isn't a good reason). I wouldn't bother disagree'ing with people's advice, just nod and smile and carry on.

Rugging is very individual as different horses vary so much, some just really feel the cold and others keep warm naturally and over-heat easily. You have to learn what works for your horse and then grow a thick skin if that is different from those around you.
 
I'd be concerned about pain. She didn't look too bad on 22.11.14 but then one of your other identities had posted a video of her where she was lame on most, if not all, of her legs, having just come off 18 months of box rest and was looking really uncomfortable.

If you've been feeding her to regain weight then we're four months on from then; it should have happened. That may be why the experienced owner is worrying about it for you. However, the spring grass will soon be here and that makes a world of difference to some horses. If she's not picking up then I'd get the vet out and see what he makes of her.
 
There is no wrong or right answer. With regards to your feed, it sounds like she is doing really well on it, so why upset her?

I have a very thin coated TB who has very little body fat. She is in a 300g with full neck overnight, but as she is starting to feel warm in the morning that will be changing to the 180g without a neck. During the day she is currently in the 100g without a neck and is comfortable.
The (part clipped) wooly mammoth is in a 100g at night and rugless during the day.

Feel the base of the ears and in the armpits this will give you a good indication of how hot or cold your horse is. If it is borderline, I give the TB a heavier rug and the wooly mammoth a lighter rug.

What works for one horse may not work for another. You know your horse better than anyone. Sometimes it is better to trust your instinct than what anyone else says.
 
With regards to feed I would stick with modern advice.
Oats and a basic mollichaff won't be as effective at adding condition like a your current feed.

With regards to rugs I would be ready to add rugs, at this time of year the temperature can drop quickly, under done cloud and at night, and having a cold horse won't help the conditioning, your horse will be using lots of feed value to keep warm instead of improving.
 
See, I'd agree with him on the feeds. Oats have a terrible reputation for some reason! Yes, some horses will react to the starchy-ness, but many, many, many don't! All my feeds are tailored around a ration of good ol' oats. They are highly digestible, and actually have the lowest energy content of ALL grains! So a feed of oats, a fat source such as a quality oil/rice bran/copra and then a protein source such as something Lucerne based coupled with a vita/min sup is wonderful. You can increase or decrease the levels of each individually as your horse needs it.

The rigging is a difficult one. If you under-rug when it's cool you'll actually keep the horse colder than no rug, because they are unable to use their own abilities to adjust their coat for warmth. So rug off during the day but back on at night! The joys of in between weather!
 
If he is looking and doing well on the feeding regime there is no real need to change it . personally I would rug an 18 year old TB overnight at this time of year otherwise he could lose condition trying to keep warm and this would just undo the improvements you have made in body condition. TBs can come out of winter in very light condition and some seem to lose condition almost overnight.
 
jemima*askin said:
I'd be concerned about pain. She didn't look too bad on 22.11.14 but then one of your other identities had posted a video of her where she was lame on most, if not all, of her legs, having just come off 18 months of box rest and was looking really uncomfortable.

If you've been feeding her to regain weight then we're four months on from then; it should have happened. That may be why the experienced owner is worrying about it for you. However, the spring grass will soon be here and that makes a world of difference to some horses. If she's not picking up then I'd get the vet out and see what he makes of her.
Click to expand...

Ooh, what are the other identities?? :confused:
 
I have to kind of agree with him with the rugs. If the feed is working for now that's ok but sometimes straights can be better. Don't take offence if he knows better.
 
smellsofhorse said:
With regards to feed I would stick with modern advice.
Oats and a basic mollichaff won't be as effective at adding condition like a your current feed.
.
Click to expand...
Now here we have a problem! It depends on which modern advice you read. You can go for the glitzy American pseudo research where their one aim is to sell you somthing. Or ,on the other hand for example ,French ,government funded research (horses are still considered agricultural there).There is certainly a disparity between the two.
 
I completed the Equine Nutrition Course with Edinburgh and what you are feeding is very sensible. Oats are very high in starch which an at rest horse can not digest or use properly, which results in an increase in PH in the hind gut, which starts to kill the microbes that help break down the food. This is the simple version. In the days where horses actually worked for a living, and even today were they are actually getting worked hard then they have their place, but not for an at rest horse. I tried a whole host of things on my WB mare when I bought her. Bluechip, barley rings etc, and it wasnt until I took the course that I finally realised where I was going wrong and how the horse digests food. As for the rug, both my WBx are out one with a heavy and one with a medium, so it entirely depends on the horse and how they cope. The horse with the medium has had a neck and bib clip all winter and is a good doer, and has never been cold or sorry. I am now thinking of changing their rugs in the next week or so, and I live in the North East.
 
orionstar said:
I completed the Equine Nutrition Course with Edinburgh and what you are feeding is very sensible. Oats are very high in starch which an at rest horse can not digest or use properly, which results in an increase in PH in the hind gut, which starts to kill the microbes that help break down the food. This is the simple version. In the days where horses actually worked for a living, and even today were they are actually getting worked hard then they have their place, but not for an at rest horse. I tried a whole host of things on my WB mare when I bought her. Bluechip, barley rings etc, and it wasnt until I took the course that I finally realised where I was going wrong and how the horse digests food. As for the rug, both my WBx are out one with a heavy and one with a medium, so it entirely depends on the horse and how they cope. The horse with the medium has had a neck and bib clip all winter and is a good doer, and has never been cold or sorry. I am now thinking of changing their rugs in the next week or so, and I live in the North East.
Click to expand...
Oats are not ,as grains go,very high in starch, they are relatively high in oils and protein compared to other grains. Fed little and often they are a fantastic feed and I would refer you to the research of |Tisserand, (verified by Wolfe)
 
*disclaimer not a horsey person*

I would give two bits of advice:

1) Ask why. Whenever anyone offers advice be keen to listen and ask why. Why should you do this or that or do it that way etc... Ask them for the ins-and-outs. Make full use of those willing to take time to offer you advice.
First up it helps broaden your understanding and many times knowing the "why" of something gives you more than just knowing the "what".
Second it will often quickly show you who really knows their stuff from those who; whilst not having abusive methods; might have a very limited understanding and thus a more restricted range of skills (ergo "this always works" because it works for them most of the time and they've not tried anything much different).

2) Accept that in any animal care (heck even in caring for humans) there are 10001 different theories. No single one is 100% right and a good number are often based upon what works for a range of individuals/species within the group and not necessarily for the whole species at large.
That's why asking why is so important.


Note by asking why and by understanding things you can have a discussion as well; not in the interests of firing back but simply in a way of sharing understanding
 
orionstar said:
I completed the Equine Nutrition Course with Edinburgh and what you are feeding is very sensible. Oats are very high in starch which an at rest horse can not digest or use properly, which results in an increase in PH in the hind gut, which starts to kill the microbes that help break down the food. This is the simple version. In the days where horses actually worked for a living, and even today were they are actually getting worked hard then they have their place, but not for an at rest horse. I tried a whole host of things on my WB mare when I bought her. Bluechip, barley rings etc, and it wasnt until I took the course that I finally realised where I was going wrong and how the horse digests food. As for the rug, both my WBx are out one with a heavy and one with a medium, so it entirely depends on the horse and how they cope. The horse with the medium has had a neck and bib clip all winter and is a good doer, and has never been cold or sorry. I am now thinking of changing their rugs in the next week or so, and I live in the North East.
Click to expand...


So an at rest horse cannot digest oats but an in work horse can? How the hell does that work?
 
Overread said:
*disclaimer not a horsey person*

I would give two bits of advice:

1) Ask why. Whenever anyone offers advice be keen to listen and ask why. Why should you do this or that or do it that way etc... Ask them for the ins-and-outs. Make full use of those willing to take time to offer you advice.
First up it helps broaden your understanding and many times knowing the "why" of something gives you more than just knowing the "what".
Second it will often quickly show you who really knows their stuff from those who; whilst not having abusive methods; might have a very limited understanding and thus a more restricted range of skills (ergo "this always works" because it works for them most of the time and they've not tried anything much different).

2) Accept that in any animal care (heck even in caring for humans) there are 10001 different theories. No single one is 100% right and a good number are often based upon what works for a range of individuals/species within the group and not necessarily for the whole species at large.
That's why asking why is so important.


Note by asking why and by understanding things you can have a discussion as well; not in the interests of firing back but simply in a way of sharing understanding
Click to expand...


This is wonderful advice and should be repeated not only on most threads on this (and every other) forum but daily to oneself.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top