Who owns the foal

I'd say the new owner owns the foal regardless of wether it was bought as not in foal, you only know it is in foal as they have stated it is, if they had said nothing you would have been none the wiser, it would be the same as me selling a horse and it winning HOYS a few weeks later - I don't go and ask for the horse back just because it is now worth more. I would accept you made a mistake and sold it too soon to find out 100% if it is in foal - mistakes can and do happen, vets are only human and embryos can be well hidden, so I would at best be happy with a first refusal on the foal. If the new owners want the covering certificate then as long as they pay for everything then I see no problem putting them in contact with the stud - denying them that is pointless and petty.
Also if the mare was that brilliant then why be in such a hurry to sell her on just because she was believed to have failed to get in foal? For young mares I'd give them a couple of seasons to get in foal before selling on a good mare as barren, chalk it down to experience.
 
Current owner owns the mare and foal - simple as that! You sold a horse "presumed" to be not in foal. Your loss their gain or maybe not if they do not actually want a foal!

And what if there are complications, and the mare dies giving birth or there are serious complications with either the mare or foal? Would you be giving a refund or money towards vets bills then?
 
You sold the mare as she was. For better or worse. As others have said, unless you had a very carefully worded contract you don't have a leg to stand on.

I have read about similar problems in the US. Different legal system but I never heard of anyone getting the foal or mare back or successfully suing the vet as this is a difficult area and easy to miss. Perhaps their insurance would settle though - you never know. I have heard that depending on registry, the foal may be able to be registered by the buyer as DNA will prove parentage. The stallion owner may issue a covering cert to the buyer for a small fee. Depends on the terms though. Maybe the cases I am thinking of were mainly frozen, so straws paid for outright and not a NFNF/NFFR situation

Taking all these things into consideration I would be NICE to the buyer. If you want the foal ask for first refusal and maybe get it for under market rate. Make them feel a bit sorry for you, not make them pissed off
 
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hock5 said:
If the deal was for a proven barren mare and sold clearly on that understanding - the deal should or would be declared null and void, to protect either side from a financial advantage or for taking advantage of the the other party.
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If I had bought your mare and was now having this conversation with you I would consider returning the mare and foal providing you reimbursed me in advance and in cash for all my livery, vet, farrier, tack, rugs, feed etc that I spent out whilst the mare (and foal) were in my care. After all, they bought a "barren" mare, indicates to me that they weren't planning to have the responsibility and expense of a pregnant mare and eventually a foal. What if the foal dies? Would you still want the mare back then? What if the mare dies giving birth? Sorry I think you need to cut your losses.
 
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hock5 said:
I am sorry but vet is supposed to be highly educated, experienced in what he making a judgement on, unfortunately this is not his first time making this call regards one of our mares. Also if his judgement is wrong, he then (his manner is quiet arrogant) re-starts or starts a program of regumate/prostaglandin to bring them into season, so if he did get it wrong, it would abort the fetus in any case. Now concerned as to vets general competencies!
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Oh well, more fool you, sorry to be blunt, but you used a vet who has made a similar error before & dont think to get a 2nd opinion. Perhaps you ought to change vet. I would be surprised if you have any claim on said foal, so as another poster has said chalk it up to experience & move on.
 
It completely depends on how you worded your Bill of Sale. You have not told us how you worded this so it implies that you did not have a sales clause drawn up and thus you have no legs to stand on. If you do have a sales clause then what is it and what does it SPECIFICALLY say? Stop being vague about it or we can't help you ;)

The vet does not sound like he knows what he is doing, but your story also does not ring so true. You tried to breed her on 4 heat cycles and none were successful? (Well obviously the final breeding was successful otherwise your purchaser wouldn't be asking for the covering certificate.) Your vet is flipping between Regumate and PG :confused: You need a new vet who can, at the very least, read ultrasounds! Crikey even I can read and ultrasound and see the foetus, it's really not rocket science and if it hides on the first U/S you'll not be able to miss it on subsequent ones. Get yourself a proper repro vet who has good quality and up to the minute equipment and knowledge.

If the resolution is the mare and foal remain with the purchaser then you could offer to get the purchaser the breeding certificate however if it were me (and readers, it wouldn't be I hasten to add! I do not use rubbish vets for breeding) I would be asking the purchasers for recompense to get it for them. I don't know how much you spent on breeding this mare but I frequently go over the 2-3 grand mark just to get the mare bred! And that's why this would not happen to me because if I've just spent 3 grand getting a mare in foal then I'm going to make very sure that she is or isn't pregnant before putting her on the market for sale.
 
It would be interesting to know how stallion keepers think about this one?

Would you be willing to provide the new owner with a C.C., provided all fees had been paid?

If there had been a consession would you provide a C.C. o payment of owed fees?

If a C.C.had already been provided to the vendor at time of covering, and in the event of them not being willing to pass the C.C. on, would you be prepared to accept DNA evidence for the purposes of registration? presumbly the stud owner has at sometime had a passport for the mare proving her identity....... sorry lots of questions.
 
My experience was not quite the same as this one as I was buyig brood mares. I bought 2 from the same breeder - one was sold 'in foal' and the other had been scanned empty (and was a lot cheaper.) Over the winter, the nif mare didn't look right - she had a big belly and was a bit poor - but I didn't suspect she WAS in foal (knowing the stud had a good stud vet!) I wormed her again, upped her feed, and she improved a bit. The in foal mare slipped a colt at 290 days - and a few days later the nif mare gave me a filly!

The breeder (who also owned the stallion) was a bit miffed she'd let the mare go cheap when she WAS in foal - but gave me a covering certificate. If the other mare hadn't lost her foal I think she MIGHT have asked a service fee for the covering certificate - and I would have paid it - but under the circumstances ....
 
Sorry, but if you sold the mare as a 'proven barren broodmare' and she has now been found to be infoal, then you still have no claim on the foal UNLESS your agreement stated specifically that 'if she was indeed found to be infoal that the sale agreement would then be null and void' or words similarly saying that the foal would be your property.
If I was the new owners of the mare, I would be pretty miffed right now at your implications that they are not honouring an agreement that in the words you have used so far doesn't actually exist!
If I was in your shoes I would be helping them get a covering certificate and hoping that by being helpful they would, as a good will gesture, either pay the stud fee (which they do not have to do as you were responsible for responsibilities of ownership at the time of the mare being put in foal) or if they sell the foal, again as a good will gesture, they would give you a cut from the sale, but if you are treating them badly over the matter then I feel they are just as likely to tell you to shove off. You have sold the mare end of!
 
Does the new owner know which stallion the foal is by? If so, if I were them, I'd be contacting the stud which stands the stallion and be asking them for the necessary covering cert. If stud asked for fee to be paid again to do this, I'd do it. Not sure I'd rub the old owner's nose in it by asking for a free covering cert for a foal I hadn't actually planned upon. I know in theory they can, but common sense should indicate this is request is only likely to aggravate the previous owner who's suddenly discovered they'd lost out on the foal they'd spend money on AI to concieve. If I had been the new owners, I'd have kept my mouth shut! :D

OP: Unless the reciept of sale for the mare specifically stated in BLACK and WHITE that the sale of the mare would be cancelled and reversed if the mare is found to be in foal to 'x' (the AI stallion used before they purchased the mare) then I don't think you've a leg to stand on. Plus, if your original reciept of sale did clearly state this, then surely who's responsible for paying what, in this eventuality ocurring, was covered in detail in the text of the document? And you would not need to be on here asking what to do.
 
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