whoohooo. Got tickets for Cesar Milan

I really don't like his methods
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He is a dog bully.

Have you seen this joint press statement from welfare orgs?: http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/press-statement.php

Sorry - prob shouldn't have said... but i really don't like him.
 
I will be going
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will be booking tickets tomorrow.
I have read the article in question, I realy dont see him as a bully, I do however see alot of humanising on his programme which is possibly the biggest factor in poor/aggressive dog behaviour
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I have also seen very little in the way of trainers tackling the issues he does.
I wonder why we do not see more dog training programs if these problems are so easy to solve with these other methods, other than V Stillwell who tackles the very easy basics of dog behaviour or the other fella, who is more like a family psychologist.
Lets not forget most of these owners want an answer yesterday otherwise it's a body bag.
 
I do watch the dog whisperer and people on there are terrible.. the humanising dogs thing is what most of the owners seem to do.

Victoria Stillwell is ok - but agree you don't see very agressive dogs on there...

I still don't like Cesar tho
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I know a behviourist who has sucess using positive methods with very agressive dogs/ difficult behaviour problems. She is amazing..
 
I find it so funny to watch where 90% of the owners when asked does it get any exercise? Erm well no but ... I agree with Cayla about the issues that he will tackle. Also if the dog doesn't improve when left alone with the owner for whatever reason (I remember 1 guy in NY who had this hyper dog in a flat) he takes the dog into his pack until he can find it a suitable home. Pick and choose the methods you like as with anything I guess!
 
Widget, be interested to see what you think to my post up there ^^^

Regarding that link, which has been posted before on here - it is way too wordy and has no direct quotes from a human being. They need a better PR person
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some of those organisations carry a lot of clout and I would have expected better from them!
 
I'm with the welfare orgs on this one
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but each to their own I guess..

I did watch an awful episode with a JRT who barked at Motorbikes - did anyone see that one?
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His method worked, but I would say at cost to the dog...

I don't disagree that the dogs do mainly end up in better living situations because of his interventions, but I think there are better ways... Plus he is a media tart
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I do watch the dog whisperer and people on there are terrible.. the humanising dogs thing is what most of the owners seem to do.

Victoria Stillwell is ok - but agree you don't see very agressive dogs on there...

I still don't like Cesar tho
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I know a behviourist who has sucess using positive methods with very agressive dogs/ difficult behaviour problems. She is amazing..

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I bet she is also give a descent amount of time to work with them......and I would doubt the majority are pit bulls.....when it comes to aggression they are hard and a bit like akitas they take some time and determination to work with.....I worked with 1 recently and it took me months, of all the dog aggression I have dealt with he was by far the worst.....I was not mamby pamby either, and in the time it took me to work with him , hundreds would have been pts.....and I worked on him alone, with no divey owner involved, I did however make sure he was placed in capable hands.
I think over all he has promted better dog ownership and as suggested he has hammered the need for exercise home.
I have used cesar style methods for aggression and positive methods both work......and both where totally different types/levels of aggression.
I do respect everyones opinions.
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You see I think when it is a matter of the dogs life - there are arguements for using methods you wouldn't normally consider, but only by experienced trainers. (eg. choke chains).

I just think too many people adopt Cesar's methods for their dogs without thinking about better ways first.

I know people don't agree - but it's my opinion
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TBH I wouldn't pay the amount being asked to go and see him
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And on another note, Widget good to see you back
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How's Loki?

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Loki is lovely
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cayla Am actually totally with you - there are situations for both methods - i just would prefer to see Cesar only resort to extremes occasionally... Alot of people watch and copy..
 
Maybe off topic, but I see plenty of people on here using slip leads, which have exactly the same action as a choke chain....in fact, they run through the ring faster than a choke chain.

Gina, I wouldn't pay that either. OH, on the other hand....:p
 
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Maybe off topic, but I see plenty of people on here using slip leads, which have exactly the same action as a choke chain....in fact, they run through the ring faster than a choke chain.

Gina, I wouldn't pay that either. OH, on the other hand....:p

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I have to use a slip lead for gundog training
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The only problem I see is if your dog pulls?
 
Nope.....alot will agree with u.....there is certainly a good divide on either side
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Maybe I see what he has to deal with, a trainer can choose what they deal with, and take aslong as they want....we as a rescue don't have this luxury......we either take the dog and work on it ourselves along side another how ever many we have with issues or we help the owner in the home....I msut admit due to lack of time I had to stop going and working with the owners as I concentrated more on the rescue....but when it got to the stage like a recent owner with a boxer where they have been trough 5 behaviourists and the rescue they got the dog from has bowed out, this really worries me.

The dog has serious aggression issues and has attacked a dog badly, even after working with all these so called experienced behaviourists the dog has an extendy lead and a harness
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I told her to dispose of these before I collect him.
I really have very little time to spare for this but I feel they have well and truly exhausted all avenues and I feel for them.
 
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Maybe off topic, but I see plenty of people on here using slip leads, which have exactly the same action as a choke chain....in fact, they run through the ring faster than a choke chain.

Gina, I wouldn't pay that either. OH, on the other hand....:p

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I have to use a slip lead for gundog training
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The only problem I see is if your dog pulls?

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The same as with a choke chain. They both close around the dog's neck, only one is made of rope and the other is made of metal.
 
I watched an episode of "It's me or the dog" yesterday with two Cockers in it. Anyone seen that one? Bramble and Benjy?

They'd been allowed to jump up on the table and steal food, steal food from the children's hands etc and had ended up biting one of the kids whilst snatching.

They did work on the dogs, but Benjy snapped and bit again leaving the child needing to go to A&E. She recommended they put him down, which they did. There was no messing about. Dog is aggressive - pts.

It did sound like he could possibly have rage syndrome as he apparently turned on the child without warning, although I thought that was pretty rare these days? That said, he was a solid black.

I have noticed that Cesar doesn't believe in using any form of affection/food based reward. I'm not sure I understand what the dog "gets out of it"/"incentive" to comply....if you know what I mean? However, I think he does achieve remarkable results. I'd be interested to see how the dogs he helps are 12 months down the line and if the owners can be bothered to keep up with the exercise and training regime.

I like how he berates the owners for humanising dogs, yet he often relates dogs to "if you look at a herd of wild horses". Isn't that equine-ising them?
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I'd like to go and see him...I record the programme every evening but I guess my own methods of "training" are probably more like Victoria Stillwell's as positive association and food reward.
 
Well - that is Cesar's favourite technique - is called an Alpha Roll: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_roll

I do agree with you tho - there are extreme cases where extreme measure need to be taken - otherwise the dog would be PTS.

However - Cesar is a tv showman... and there are other methods i prefer... Anyway - I do realise others don't agree with me - and everyone is allowed their opinion
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Oh I'm not on about the alpha roll. I'm on about the info with the clip that suggests the dog didn't become submissive due to accepting Cesar's dominance over it...the blurb suggests the dog was near strangulation and was distressed which caused it's collapse.

Not sure what I think.
 
I have never omce seen a cesar programme that has made me think any cruelty is involved or bullying.....neither of those vids shocked me......I did however mention to OH his specialicty is not in dealing with cats and dog together
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when I watched that programme.....there are easier ways than that to deal with it, and not in a "better for the poor dog way" jsut more efficient, as holding the cat would actually heighten the dogs pray drive
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The dog jumping up and biting....fair play he dealt with it by way of holding it down once he got his chance...no harm done and it's a bloody dangerous dog, it began choking when it was lunging for him as he had to hold the lead up to prevent it biting him, it jsut remained tight round the neck when he pushed it down, it has probably never encountered a consiquence to it's aggression before.
I still stick to my "where are all of these people who can deal with this level of aggression" cos he has been around a while now and they dont seem to be coming out of the wood work

I think all 3 trainer to be honest are media whores......VS likes to look good and wear high heel shoes whilst being dragged down the street with someone dog on an extendy lead(I have yet to see her tackle a dog that pulls) she jsut lets it continue and she cover the very basics of training....dogs with very easy isues to tackle, maily owner stupidity.
and the other fella(american) not sure what he is called is a complete media whore and drama queen, more often than not I like the comedy factor of his show
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Oh I'm not on about the alpha roll. I'm on about the info with the clip that suggests the dog didn't become submissive due to accepting Cesar's dominance over it...the blurb suggests the dog was near strangulation and was distressed which caused it's collapse.

Not sure what I think.

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You can def see the dog turns to the side and he gets his chance to push it down, it was no doubt beginning to choke but if u are jumping up and trying to bit and the lead had to be held in a way to prevent a bite, then thats what is going to happen.....if a dog does this in the vets, i.e breaks from being restrained for a jab and turns aggressive and turns to bite like this (very common in shepherds) and u hold the lead above or away then of course the collar/chain depending on what the dog has on will tighten....it's then a battle betwen human strength to stop the dog getting to u and the dog carrying on until it tires or breathing is restricted and it gives in.
With some breeds more than others inc a pit bull they have immense power and strength.....u will hold till they go blue.....even when fighting....I think humanising animals with such power and strength has alot to do with peoples reactions and to be honest it's what has us in these dangerous situations i the first place.
 
Now this I totally agree with. That was my view on it initially when I saw it....then I read the blurb and I thought...."hmmm........now I'm not so sure.....".

I don't think anyone else would've given this owner a better way of dealing with this dog....without straight away perhaps saying PTS. Of course, we only saw a snap shot of the programme too and it's not an episode I have seen.

I cannot imagine saying "sit" or "leave" with a piece of chicken would be remotely sufficient to bring a "red zone" dog down to calm/submissive states.

I would like to see how he trains a dog that has no issues though. Does he never believe in positive association rewards? Most trainers advocate treat based rewards don't they? When we see Cesar dealing with extreme behaviour, we then only get to see the extreme responses to dealing with it.

I watched with interest his programme on the three different puppies he selected and raised. I noticed he picked the more calmer ones of each breed to raise. I understand fully why he did this...but I'd liked to have seen him select the more lively, dominant pups as well in order to help the owners out there that will end up with them. After all, someone would buy them eh?

I like him. I find alot of his ideas make sense. Mind you "claiming" something as yours is not easy with an iccle puppy. If I "claim" a shoe and try to make Harvey walk backwards away from it he will just chew my trouser leg instead.
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Sorry, the husky/shep/bloody big dog that he was dealing with there...if he came at me like that, damn right I would cut off his air supply.

I see a lot of dogs become out of control/arsey/grabby because their owners have not been firm with them - what happens if they lunge or grab a weaker person or a child??

That sort of behaviour comes from frustration, boredom, bolshiness and a dislike of being asked to do something they do not want to do - it isn't on and the reason that Cesar had to do that was because the owners never nipped it in the bud in the first place.

Not a big fan of alpha rolls, only done it once out of total desperation and I had a split second where I thought my face and I might have been parted.
I don't like the way Joe Soap and Sally Bubbles now think they can alpha roll any old dog - but isn't that what the disclaimers are for.

Never had to use one on a dog myself, but has anyone actually tested an e-collar on themselves?
 
Lol....at your "I dont think it would take a piece of chicken"
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your damn right there
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I have seen him use treats and make dummies for dogs, but I think we maybe dont see the treat scenario as much as we do with VS cos she basicaly teaches dogs to stop jumping up or to sit
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where as cesar deals with more extreme full on aggression.....and I can confirm not many dogs with aggression to the extreme has any interest in treats/toys.....in some cases it literally a "it's me or you" or someones pet cocker much like harvey" u do what is effective to train a dog in these scenarios, I recently did with a pit/staff x ddb he was like a dog posessed......he is now in a loving sensible homes with another dog, and what makes the scenario all the more "annoying" to me is that there where plenty of cesar dislikers that could have took him on and used there so called positive techniques, and not one damned person would touch him with a barge poll
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and even more condescending they are all against breed banning....go figure
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because it's the deed not the breed least we forget "well take him home them and train him with your beloved pets"
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not a chance, he was on his way to the big kennel in the sky
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"The irony" I ask myself....in my posh old woman stylee voice
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