skewbaldpony
Well-Known Member
So if your horse tests positive, even though it was just anti chew spray on your rugs - who's made an idiot of themselves?
Who's screwed up? Riders or FEI?
- Thread starter skewbaldpony
- Start date
stencilface
High upon a hillside
Sorry, I don't believe the pretend innocence in these cases. If I was competing at that level, I would make damn sure my horse would not come into contact with any banned substance, however 'innocent' it might be
kerilli
Well-Known Member
Agreed. when i was getting ready to do my first 2*, so not exactly at an exalted level, my trainer's head groom took me aside a few months before and told me categorically that the only thing safe to put on any cuts etc on my horse was saline, not to trust anything else at all, whatever it said on the tube. this was many years ago, she was grooming for a horse at 4* level and on the British team etc, and that's what they were told then...
Puppy
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The FEI, sort your testing - performance enhancing rug spray? Perlease
[/ QUOTE ]
But the FEI are not saying that a rug spray in itself is performance enhancing.
However, there is an ingredient in it that can be, and therefore is banned.
The FEI, sort your testing - performance enhancing rug spray? Perlease
[/ QUOTE ]
AutumnRose
Well-Known Member
I think it is totally and utterly the riders responsibility. If i was competing at the level i would make bloomin sure i knew exactly what was going anywhere near my horse.
My sister is a groom for a pro eventer and they are unbelievale strict and paranoid and rightly so. They regularly have it drummed into them that anything used in anyway on the yard is checked and triple checked and there are absolutely no excuses or exceptions.
My sister is a groom for a pro eventer and they are unbelievale strict and paranoid and rightly so. They regularly have it drummed into them that anything used in anyway on the yard is checked and triple checked and there are absolutely no excuses or exceptions.
KatB
Well-Known Member
Agree with Kerilli and Autumnrose. It is VERY MUCH the riders responsibility to make sure their horse doesnt come into contact with any banned substances. Most yards are very strict on this.
skewbaldpony
Well-Known Member
what's interesting is that those who blame the riders wholly have a lot more to say about it - all five comments representing only half the respondents!
Ever so slightly more than half so far believe it to be at least in part something the FEI have not handled correctly, but have not commented to that effect.
Ever so slightly more than half so far believe it to be at least in part something the FEI have not handled correctly, but have not commented to that effect.
The Voice
Well-Known Member
Ultimatly it is the riders responsibility, but if you have 40 horses on the yard, away competiting 5 days a week with your best grooms, you cannot be in total control 24/7, especially in the case of TAH rug spray if this is the case.
If these products are banned by the FEI for containing a substance, why are they available for everyday use? Does this mean that anyone competiting at any level is 'cheating' and you can complain about them. Are they clearly labelled in big bold letters'contains a substance banned by the FEI ? With no disrespect, we are talking about grooms and riders not micro biologists that will study every label.
If you are talking about going out of your way to do certain things to enhance performance this is a totally different matter. If 'true' cheats had been dealt with severly in the first place, like Dwain Chambers, and had received substantial bans from competitions then we may not be having this conversation and common sense may have prevailed in cases. Perhaps federations should take matters into the own hands like British Athletics did.
If Norway lose the medal over what is found to be a rug spray then this would be a sad day for the sport.
If these products are banned by the FEI for containing a substance, why are they available for everyday use? Does this mean that anyone competiting at any level is 'cheating' and you can complain about them. Are they clearly labelled in big bold letters'contains a substance banned by the FEI ? With no disrespect, we are talking about grooms and riders not micro biologists that will study every label.
If you are talking about going out of your way to do certain things to enhance performance this is a totally different matter. If 'true' cheats had been dealt with severly in the first place, like Dwain Chambers, and had received substantial bans from competitions then we may not be having this conversation and common sense may have prevailed in cases. Perhaps federations should take matters into the own hands like British Athletics did.
If Norway lose the medal over what is found to be a rug spray then this would be a sad day for the sport.
Rambo
Well-Known Member
I find the whole situation very dismaying and i'm sure most if not all these occurrences of capsaicin are 'innocent' mistakes rather than blatant attempts to cheat.
What I find more interesting in the current climate is that nobody has picked up on the fact that the winner of the individual gold has escaped a life ban for drugs 'cheating' not once but TWICE
What are people's views on this ?
What I find more interesting in the current climate is that nobody has picked up on the fact that the winner of the individual gold has escaped a life ban for drugs 'cheating' not once but TWICE
skewbaldpony
Well-Known Member
That's true, we do focus on the horse, don't we?
I remember my boss (dressage) saying it was as well they didn't test for valium!
don't even know if that's true any more! LOL
I remember my boss (dressage) saying it was as well they didn't test for valium!
don't even know if that's true any more! LOL
lar
Well-Known Member
C'mon this is the Olympics we are talking about. You can't get a bigger stage! And as riders only had one horse at this particular competition to worry about wouldn't you have thought they would check check check and check again to make sure there were no illegal substances floating around?
I mean I'm sure some of the positive dope tests were due to an innocent mistake but really at that level is that ANY excuse?
I mean I'm sure some of the positive dope tests were due to an innocent mistake but really at that level is that ANY excuse?
The Voice
Well-Known Member
I know some of the riders are pretty daft but you would have to be incredible stupid to try and cheat at the largest sporting event that happens every 4 years at a top of the field centre for drugs testing especially after what happened in Athens.
It could be, and I don't know, that perhaps Potofino had to be withdrawn because she couldn't be given treatment to make her right to compete on the day because she would still have had traces in her blood if tested, perhaps the same as Pepermill. If he had given something like equiblock then it may have eased the strain but wasn't risked because they may have heard about DL. Not performance enhancing but allows the 'athlete' to compete.
If a drugs is used for performance enhancing, then yes ban them say from FEI events for 5 years, but if it cannot be proved give them a 'yellow card' as a warning. I wouldn't want the horses or sport sufferng because the rules are too stringent. Perhaps riders should sign up to a 'fair play' declaration where they would not knowingly do anything detrimental to the sport which could be lead by the GB team.
It could be, and I don't know, that perhaps Potofino had to be withdrawn because she couldn't be given treatment to make her right to compete on the day because she would still have had traces in her blood if tested, perhaps the same as Pepermill. If he had given something like equiblock then it may have eased the strain but wasn't risked because they may have heard about DL. Not performance enhancing but allows the 'athlete' to compete.
If a drugs is used for performance enhancing, then yes ban them say from FEI events for 5 years, but if it cannot be proved give them a 'yellow card' as a warning. I wouldn't want the horses or sport sufferng because the rules are too stringent. Perhaps riders should sign up to a 'fair play' declaration where they would not knowingly do anything detrimental to the sport which could be lead by the GB team.
Puppy
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
What I find more interesting in the current climate is that nobody has picked up on the fact that the winner of the individual gold has escaped a life ban for drugs 'cheating' not once but TWICE
What are people's views on this ?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well I said something similar the other day!! How on earth can that happen???
When you consider Dwain Chambers's case it does seems to be one rule for one...
What I find more interesting in the current climate is that nobody has picked up on the fact that the winner of the individual gold has escaped a life ban for drugs 'cheating' not once but TWICE
[/ QUOTE ]
Well I said something similar the other day!! How on earth can that happen???
When you consider Dwain Chambers's case it does seems to be one rule for one...
lar
Well-Known Member
Did he? I thought he was cleared of the ephedrine because the manufacturers of the product admitted that they had made a mistake with the make up of it?
And then the positive charlie test it was argued he shouldn't have been tested because he was already suspended - )this is according to H&H this week) - that's a real lawyers' argument isn't it?
And then the positive charlie test it was argued he shouldn't have been tested because he was already suspended - )this is according to H&H this week) - that's a real lawyers' argument isn't it?
TarrSteps
Well-Known Member
There is lots and lots of information about Eric's situation on the internet, easily searched for. Whether you disagree with the way it was handled or not, do keep in mind that he was not done for performance enhancing drugs and he was not caught at the Olympics, as has been implied here. He's certainly not the only rider to get in trouble for aspects of his personal life.
Anyway, as I said, lots of people disagree with the way it's played out but it's a bit simplistic to just say he *should* be banned and leave it at that.
Anyway, as I said, lots of people disagree with the way it's played out but it's a bit simplistic to just say he *should* be banned and leave it at that.
lucretia
Well-Known Member
am at an international event right now, with some of those who competed in olympic showjumping. please pull my posts and see my other comments this whole thing is a f**k up. why didnt they test the rest when over 25% of those sampled tested positive. the FEI's own vet said this test has been available for two years, if the substance is suspect, why not start testing for it before now if its effects are so hideous and widespread? really good idea to go all out to catch people at the olympics when the reat of the world, desperate to get rid of horse sports is watching.
and why didnt they do the thermal imaging as promised? that would have caught the really guilty immediately, not those who (maybe stupidly) believed they ere using a safe product or one that contained an amount of a banned substance that was below the levels either for testing or that would have a performance enhancing effect.
what does this say about the FEI stewarding on the worlds greatest stage because to do what they are saying it does to allegedly improve performance, you need to apply it very shortly before jumping, you need a very high strength version, most of which have a dstinct odour. if you buy it pure it is i believe odourless but is then also very hard to dilute and there fore apply.
if this substance is so common, sure there needs to be either an accurate test availble on the supposedly affected skin, or some sort of acceptable threshold.
the whole thing is a shambles, we are no longer working in the best intrests of the horse if you cant use a pepper spray to stop rug/bandage chewing and IMO if any horse sports are drummed out of future Games we will deserve it.
Hope that equals out the argument a bit skewbald!! x
and why didnt they do the thermal imaging as promised? that would have caught the really guilty immediately, not those who (maybe stupidly) believed they ere using a safe product or one that contained an amount of a banned substance that was below the levels either for testing or that would have a performance enhancing effect.
what does this say about the FEI stewarding on the worlds greatest stage because to do what they are saying it does to allegedly improve performance, you need to apply it very shortly before jumping, you need a very high strength version, most of which have a dstinct odour. if you buy it pure it is i believe odourless but is then also very hard to dilute and there fore apply.
if this substance is so common, sure there needs to be either an accurate test availble on the supposedly affected skin, or some sort of acceptable threshold.
the whole thing is a shambles, we are no longer working in the best intrests of the horse if you cant use a pepper spray to stop rug/bandage chewing and IMO if any horse sports are drummed out of future Games we will deserve it.
Hope that equals out the argument a bit skewbald!! x