Why are horses so cheap?

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Theocat

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Just a musing, based on another thread, where the OP has posted three videos of young horses for sale, at £4k, £5.5k and £6.5k. The consensus on the thread is that they aren't world beaters and some are overpriced.

Given that it costs, what, £4-5k to breed a foal and keep it to age four (H&H estimates £8k+), and probably another grand if you want to send it away to be started professionally, surely about £5-6k is the very least we should be expecting to pay for a five or six year old capable of being an RC all rounder type - more for anything with potential to do well?

Once a horse is older, you can expect value to start to decrease, if things go wrong or it's being resold from one hobbyist /amateur rider to another who isn't recouping anything, but for reasonable quality young horses, which have had time and money invested in getting them to that stage, why aren't we expecting to pay more?

I understand the market is what the market is - I'm just not sure WHY the market has prices the way they are. If you're selling something at 4/5/6, presumably it was generally bred to sell - so why are so many people taking a loss to produce horses for the rest of us?
 
I said they were not overpriced for what they were, if they were potential world beaters they would have another 0 on the price and be snapped up, I cannot understand how people can produce nice youngsters and be expected to let them go for less than the cost of producing them no wonder so many small breeders have given up.
I paid £3k for a 6 year old 30 years ago, he was sold to me at half his value by friends, if he were around now he should be worth significantly more in line with inflation but the reality is that most people would still expect to buy him for under the £6k he was valued at, I think it is due to the bottom end being so low, it pulls the mid range prices down to an unrealistic level.
 
No answer but I feel the same. I used to think hho horses tended to be the more expensive ones, but I regularly see adverts on here priced for lower than I'd expect, going by the description.

There are obviously the exceptions for top priced comp horses but otherwise I'd say horses are cheaper now then they used to be, by a considerable margin, it seems like a long term trend.

Presumably a lot to do with (all?) market demand, too many horses, not enough buyers. I don't think it's due to the underlying costs being cheaper as overheads if anything are probably higher now.
 
Very few breeders make money on the horses they breed. Most do it for the love of horses, love of their breed, and, also, like the thrill of lotto, and there is the million to one chance you might breed a word-beater,which,even if it didnt bring you a fortune,would bring immense satisfaction seeing it compete on the world stage.
 
Horses are cheap because of supply in the bottom and middle market there's lots of supply .
At the top end supply is limited and therefore prices are higher.
 
Goldenstar said:
Horses are cheap because of supply in the bottom and middle market there's lots of supply .
At the top end supply is limited and therefore prices are higher.
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To breed the top end horses its a fact of life you have to breed many bottom and middle class horses im afraid, we do our best not too! Hey its a lottery but certainly you have a better chance starting with the right parents.
 
One word: amateurs. People who do it for the love of it. Horses are a hobby for the vast majority, and people do not generally make money out of a hobby.
 
Because there are too many poor examples about BUT most people these days can't tell the difference between good and bad conformation and movement. Unfortunately many people see them as dispensable - sometimes they are sold cheaply because they are on an expensive livery yard and its easier to cut the lose and sell than keep paying livery. Also now its easy to become an instant expert due in some part to the internet and FB. For example someone will post a photo of a horse and there are then many comments saying how nice it is - rarely do you see an objective comment. I frequently have to sit on my hands when photos of hugely overtopped youngsters appear often looking more like stallions than mares - but who would be brave enough to post the truth!!
 
I think it's possibly due to the fact as well that people know they don't have to pay that much for a horse anymore. You can go to an auction and get them for a couple of hundred if you are lucky. Racehorses going for cheap prices probably hasn't helped either especially since many do well in a new career.

Presentation of a horse helps though. We paid 3 grand for my horse and he is worth more easily, not even me that says that the majority of the coaches that have met him have said we got him way too cheaply. But would you pay more for a horse that was too lean, had fairly bad hooves, and disunited in canter every time? We maybe paid too much at the time but a bit of feeding up, some biotin for his hooves and some schoolwork and he looks how he how he should.
 
You see I would never pay thousands for any horse, but then I'm not after a world beater so the normal average horse will do what I want, hunt , fun ride, hack, team chase! I work on them and get what I want from them and haven't had one not capable. Best horse I brought was for £800 as a 6 yr old, tb x wc and 13 yrs later iv still got her, not 1 days lameness and the best horse iv ever owned and would jump anything asked. Why pay what I consider silly money when you can pay around £800/1000 for a decent horse if u know what your looking at.
 
Plus iv brought a lovely put together palamino filly, no breeding at all but boy she's put together well and I know with right training she will do what I want, £100. She will take me hunting when older, I don't see the need to pay for breeding.
 
I don't think any of them were overpriced. Even the 4.5k which is unlikely to make an eventer will be a lovely little allrounder for someone!

I have been lucky with the youngsters I've bought for reasonably cheap but they are middle class, none will ever go further than be novice I don't think. The next 1 I buy will be for me & I will be buying a 3 of 4 year old unbroken event type and am willing to spend the money that is necessary.

I think its sad that people pay for a pair of riding boots or a saddle than some do for their horses!! Ireland always gets slated for a breeding crisis for low quality horses but I honestly feel we are going the same way! People don't care about breeding but actually 1 way or the other that foal still stands someone at a lot of money. Even if the stud fee was only £200 its the vets fees etc that add up.

I would love to breed my own but I know there is no money in it at all for me should I ever decide to sell I would inevitability loose money.
 
thatsmygirl said:
You see I would never pay thousands for any horse, but then I'm not after a world beater so the normal average horse will do what I want, hunt , fun ride, hack, team chase! I work on them and get what I want from them and haven't had one not capable. Best horse I brought was for £800 as a 6 yr old, tb x wc and 13 yrs later iv still got her, not 1 days lameness and the best horse iv ever owned and would jump anything asked. Why pay what I consider silly money when you can pay around £800/1000 for a decent horse if u know what your looking at.
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Yes, of course you can pick up good horses for less - but my point is that £5k isn't "silly money" - any less, and the breeder / producer is making a huge loss. I'm interested in the mindset that £5k has become silly money, when in reality it's anything but.
 
Theocat said:
Yes, of course you can pick up good horses
for less - but my point is that £5k isn't "silly money" - any less, and the breeder / producer is making a huge loss. I'm interested in the mindset that £5k has become silly money, when in reality it's anything but.
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It is for the horses posted. I wouldn't trust any of them around a cross country course. One of them will smack his head off the jumps, one is lazy and the third may or may not stop. All rounders for the average person they may be but who is gonna pay 5k for a horse they will probably hack more than compete? It's not a great investment.
 
At a breeders event yesterday there was a talk about the current market for horses. The average price in the UK paid for a horse is about 1300 pounds if I recall correctly. It was under 2k anyway. That says so much about the state of the market and the number of horses that must change hands for under 1k. It makes them affordable for people who really can't afford them. Sadly this leads to all sorts of other problems, like a thread on a Facebook page I saw today regarding another yard closure in Essex and people moaning about finding DIY livery for less than £30 a week. Too many people want to buy cheap, keep cheap and then when something goes wrong have no way of paying the bills for it and we have welfare issues. Horses are a luxury item even if all one wants to do is hack around the roads or even pet it in the field and feed it carrots. One would be hard pushed to have a riding lesson for less than £25 an hour yet too many people think that should be their weekly budget for keeping their horse. And it encourages the horrid little back street dealers who are making a killing selling cheap horses, many of whom have issues or health problems and are suitable for little other than to be PTS. It's a real bugbear of mine. These issues are driving the welfare crisis.
 
Theocat said:
Yes, of course you can pick up good horses for less - but my point is that £5k isn't "silly money" - any less, and the breeder / producer is making a huge loss. I'm interested in the mindset that £5k has become silly money, when in reality it's anything but.
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£5k to me personally is silly money and I wouldn't pay it for any horse I'm afraid.
Maybe there's to many lower level riders like me who don't care about the horses breeding as most well put together horses will do the job I want and don't need to pay £5k and just wouldn't.
 
elliefiz said:
At a breeders event yesterday there was a talk about the current market for horses. The average price in the UK paid for a horse is about 1300 pounds if I recall correctly. It was under 2k anyway. That says so much about the state of the market and the number of horses that must change hands for under 1k. It makes them affordable for people who really can't afford them. Sadly this leads to all sorts of other problems, like a thread on a Facebook page I saw today regarding another yard closure in Essex and people moaning about finding DIY livery for less than £30 a week. Too many people want to buy cheap, keep cheap and then when something goes wrong have no way of paying the bills for it and we have welfare issues. Horses are a luxury item even if all one wants to do is hack around the roads or even pet it in the field and feed it carrots. One would be hard pushed to have a riding lesson for less than £25 an hour yet too many people think that should be their weekly budget for keeping their horse. And it encourages the horrid little back street dealers who are making a killing selling cheap horses, many of whom have issues or health problems and are suitable for little other than to be PTS. It's a real bugbear of mine. These issues are driving the welfare crisis.
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^
Exactly
 
elliefiz said:
At a breeders event yesterday there was a talk about the current market for horses. The average price in the UK paid for a horse is about 1300 pounds if I recall correctly. It was under 2k anyway. That says so much about the state of the market and the number of horses that must change hands for under 1k. It makes them affordable for people who really can't afford them. Sadly this leads to all sorts of other problems, like a thread on a Facebook page I saw today regarding another yard closure in Essex and people moaning about finding DIY livery for less than £30 a week. Too many people want to buy cheap, keep cheap and then when something goes wrong have no way of paying the bills for it and we have welfare issues. Horses are a luxury item even if all one wants to do is hack around the roads or even pet it in the field and feed it carrots. One would be hard pushed to have a riding lesson for less than £25 an hour yet too many people think that should be their weekly budget for keeping their horse. And it encourages the horrid little back street dealers who are making a killing selling cheap horses, many of whom have issues or health problems and are suitable for little other than to be PTS. It's a real bugbear of mine. These issues are driving the welfare crisis.
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Post of the day
 
ihatework said:
Post of the day
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Totally agree! I'm actually gobsmacked that the average price is less than 2k that to me is disgusting when you think about the amount of horses on the market& what the range will be, for the average to be less than 2k is seriously worrying
 
If the breeder cannot get good money for the majority of horses they are breeding it means there is not a ready market for what they reed and maybe they should stop breeding.
I believe the the likes of JanetGeorge have no problem selling their horses for a good price
 
To much rubbish out there! I was just reading on facebook about a girl with 50 odd "Rescue" horses, selling unhandled, unpassportted, and more worryingly ungelded cobs, that they can't afford to feed or passport. :( No pictures, or heights, wanting a pittance for potentially something that someone should have had some mercy on a while ago. By the sounds of it the stallions, foals, and mares are all running round in a field together, and what ever they can get close to gets sold. 3 mares in foal :( no idea of the sire, due date, no vet check, or even an accurate age on the mare. (Surely a mare that is being sold as three in January was realistically two (hopefully an old two year old for the poor critters sake) when the foal was conceived). So that is just one field of ponies, that dependent on the number of mares/fillies, could easily into double the number of potentially inbred, badly put together, dodgy behavioured animals they can't afford to care for properly.

I'd love to take one out of the situation, geld, handle and try and find a caring home, but I morally couldn't a) because I feel if I gave them money I'm encouraging them to keep going, b) with two horses already, one with ongoing KS, and recent potential Lami, I don't feel I'm financially secure enough to have a third, even with insurance it wouldn't be fair to not be certain I'd have enough to keep them all in the best of condition should god forbid something were to happen to all three at once!

Too many people settle for rubbish because its the cheaper option. I know someone who had three ponies, but couldn't afford the rent for one! Two had issues over the span I knew her that were intimidate vet jobs, but at one stage weren't called out because she was going on holiday and it would use some of her spending money she'd saved! Mum and Dad (she was 23+) didn't care, and the local vets have all been stung so much she has to pay on the day because she still owes one clinic from years ago!

I think whilst it's great we all have the opportunity to love and care for these beautiful animals, I wish maybe people would take it a bit more bloody seriously! Well I'll end the rant there ;)
 
Theocat said:
Yes, of course you can pick up good horses for less - but my point is that £5k isn't "silly money" - any less, and the breeder / producer is making a huge loss. I'm interested in the mindset that £5k has become silly money, when in reality it's anything but.
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£5000 is not expensive for a horse to me that's a entry level price I would tend not to look at things cheaper than that unless I knew the horse or it was near or it was very young or I got it out of training .
But I have three cheaper horses than that on the yard .
One was a five yo quirky TB he was between 4 and 5 beautiful talented horse but quirky .
Another was a hard deal I drove with a ID dealer for a horse with no tail and very green the week before Christmas .
And one was a LOU horse given to me .
I do think while you can great cheap horses people miss out by seeking to buy to cheap .
 
kassieg said:
Totally agree! I'm actually gobsmacked that the average price is less than 2k that to me is disgusting when you think about the amount of horses on the market& what the range will be, for the average to be less than 2k is seriously worrying
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The price of the horse does reflect the cost of keeping one that's a big issue .
 
rachk89 said:
I think it's possibly due to the fact as well that people know they don't have to pay that much for a horse anymore. You can go to an auction and get them for a couple of hundred if you are lucky. Racehorses going for cheap prices probably hasn't helped either especially since many do well in a new career.

Presentation of a horse helps though. We paid 3 grand for my horse and he is worth more easily, not even me that says that the majority of the coaches that have met him have said we got him way too cheaply. But would you pay more for a horse that was too lean, had fairly bad hooves, and disunited in canter every time? We maybe paid too much at the time but a bit of feeding up, some biotin for his hooves and some schoolwork and he looks how he how he should.
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It's more likely you paid the correct price for the horse and have rightly and fairly reaped the rewards of the effort you put in.
 
When there is a catastrophic oversupply of any commodity, basic market economics dictates the price for the lowest end, which in turn will drag down the middle, while the top tier tends to be unaffected. The horse market has changed drastically from the days when it was only toffs who could afford to buy and own horses, perhaps ultimately not to the horse's benefit and certainly not to the breeder's. If market forces truly applied to the horse sector (which they really don't), then there would be a clear out of the lowest quality animals, reduction in supply and a consequent rise in value for the average horse. This has happened to some extent in Ireland and Spain, the two markets I am most familiar with, with a very large rise in the number of lower end animals going to slaughter. Does anyone see the same thing happening in Britain?
 
Agree with the above. I would expect to pay for a decent horse. My thoroughbred was just shy of 2k, 7 year old, still halfway racing fit, a bit thin, but happy to jump a decent course (1-1.10m) with no real coloured pole experience, and before he had a break and we discovered KS (which didn't affect him whilst he was muscled) was worth every bloody penny and more! Well I would say that I bought him! Other horse, very decently bred ISH, huge jump, 5yo, got him cheap at 2.5k off a friend who bought him as a 4yo for over double that because she was out horsed in every sense, he terrorized her and all the people brought in to help. But he was worth the money because I've got all the time in then world to make him, and from his good breeding, strong (not perfect) conformation, and sound body, I know when the time comes he will perform! SO I do think you get what you pay for! Take a risk on something a bit cheaper, but well bred (or indeed produced) horses will prove more often then not in the long run! More people should buy horses looking for what they need then on the priced tag! A 10k dressage 4 year old will make few happy hackers happy, but then neither will a £100 knack that costs more in vet bills then a house, and has been ruined in the past either! Sure sometimes it works out but there is a lot of heart break
 
Goldenstar said:
It's
more likely you paid the correct price for the horse and have rightly and fairly reaped the rewards of the effort you put in.
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Yeah to be fair on his old owner it sounds like he wouldn't do anything for her when she tried riding him so she gave up. Plus he grew too big i think. Doesn't really excuse the thinness and bad hooves but there we are.
 
twiggy2 said:
If the breeder cannot get good money for the majority of horses they are breeding it means there is not a ready market for what they reed and maybe they should stop breeding.
I believe the the likes of JanetGeorge have no problem selling their horses for a good price
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It's not usually professional breeders who are producing cheap, badly put together horses. Most are breeding to produce top quality animals be it native ponies or performance horses. It's the hobby breeders and the people who breed from mares they own for sentimental reasons that fuel the cheap market.
Germany has a much bigger land mass than the UK, it could support far more horses than the UK however they produce fewer foals there per year than the UK does. Because it is heavily regulated and controlled. I have driven all over Germany in the past year and can't recall seeing fields of neglected horses like you see here in the UK or indeed in Ireland where the problem is just as bad but for different reasons. Even browsing the various German horse magazines and websites, most horses offered for sale regardless of price, has some sort of recorded breeding and is purpose bred. It would be great if similar controls could be implemented here. Maybe someone else can say that I'm wrong, and there are big issues in Germany but I was told that the reason it is so regulated now is that there were issues in the past so necessary action was taken and it's working. It would be great if the UK could go the same direction, there are the resources in place now such as the British Breeders Network, the various stud books, etc to help and encourage breeders to breed the best they can and not go into the whole thing blindly and hoping to get lucky.
 
We have too many horses at the bottom of the pyramid.

We don't routinely slaughter horses for meat. In fact, I believe there are very few slaughterhouses who deal in horses.

Death is not the worst fate some of these animals face.
 
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