Why are most horses so 'Over' these days...

Goldenstar said:
Yup but you can't have it both ways other liverys should not be interfering with other peoples horses if a livery sees a horse sweating in a rug they should tell the owner or YM and the YM should deal with it .
But it is the owner responsibility to care for their horse but the YO and YM also have to exercise a duty of care other liverys should not be poking about in other horses stables .
To many DIY yards are unmanaged .
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Yes agree. But in the instance that the YO is not available (I know my YO is quite often out and not available - he doesn't have a mobile either), then IMO I will relieve that horses discomfort if I see it clearly sweating.

Don't get me wrong, I can't stand an interfering busy body, they are the most infuriating people ever. But if a horse is genuinely over rugged and in danger, I will do what it takes to relieve that. Whether the owner likes it or not. Just like if I see their water bucket bone dry by 9pm, I will fill it up, then tell them. If they haven't got enough hay for the night, no I wouldn't put more in, I wouldn't feed, as that is a case where it could do more harm than good, and the horse isn't going to die or immediately suffer from no food overnight. In that instance I would report to appropriate or desired authorities.
 
Goldenstar said:
Starving pony in tiny paddock , Shetland in starvation paddock.
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Really you find starvation paddocks acceptable?

This is the biggest mistake I made as a kid with ponies and I feel guilty about it to this day, but that was what people at ponyclub advised, I wish someone had stepped in and explained the damage we were doing to the ponies by locking them up without feed for extended periods of time.

I think a horse in a sable has a greater requirement for rugs than one out in a paddock, they cannot move round to warm up whereas a paddocked horse can.

I personally hate seeing ponies fully rugged up in the middle of summer to keep there coats nice for showing grr. Mines are always unrugged over summer and I have brought home wide ribbons.
 
maccachic said:
Really you find starvation paddocks acceptable?

This is the biggest mistake I made as a kid with ponies and I feel guilty about it to this day, but that was what people at ponyclub advised, I wish someone had stepped in and explained the damage we were doing to the ponies by locking them up without feed for extended periods of time.

I think a horse in a sable has a greater requirement for rugs than one out in a paddock, they cannot move round to warm up whereas a paddocked horse can.

I personally hate seeing ponies fully rugged up in the middle of summer to keep there coats nice for showing grr. Mines are always unrugged over summer and I have brought home wide ribbons.
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Agree with most of this, particularly starvation paddocks.

I do think though that the most important thing in keeping a horse warm is not moving around, it's forage, and ability to grow a decent coat.
 
I loaned my pony out to some "professionals" there were quite a lot of things that didn't seem quite right so I decided to go and get her. The day I went and collected her it was very warm. My pony was stood in a bare paddock with a heavy weight rug on (with a neck) I have never forgiven myself for leaving her with those people! Rugging is purely common sense, a lot of horsey people in my opinion lack in it greatly!!
 
My IDxTB horse is unclipped and in a heavyweight rug (with a full neck in the field).

He doesn't sweat up, he has a gleaming (short) coat and is pretty happy with his lot.

He doesn't grow a huge coat anyway and I want to keep it as short and thin as possible so he doesn't need to be clipped- not the reason for his heavyweight, he feels the cold.

My other horse is a full tb; she grows a coat to rival a grizzly bear with full beard, feathers, fluffy ears and she is happy without a rug in all weathers if the field has a good hedge.

I've owned both of them since foals (now 6yro and 8yro) and they have had the same upbringing so my big boy certainly hasn't been 'conditioned' to being overrugged!

Surely it is like people, some people feel the cold, some people seem to have an internal woodburner and are always hot?

I also agree with Lolo, it seems in NL that the less rugs your horse wears, the less you feed it and the less you ride it competitively in *gasp* tack, the more smug you can be, very odd.
 
Barefoot Endurance said:
I just love how no one that does rug their horses up to their eyeballs can actually give a reason... All the so called 'naturalists' can give lots of reasons for their barefoot, naked ponies... Lol
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I'll give it a shot!

As we're all aware, one way for a horse to regulate its temperature is to raise their hair. Once we rug, we prevent this as the hair cannot be raised. Therefore, when rugging we not only have to rug according to the weather conditions but rug to compensate for the fact that we are not letting the natural coat do its job. Therefore horses can look over rugged when they're not.

A lot depends on the environment. If there's no shelter but the wind and rain are driving, rugging can be essential to prevent weight loss through shivering and to prevent things such as rain scald (which 'wild' ponies suffer from a lot).

I've got rugged and unrugged horses - all done according to their needs.

One rug I have seen and like the look of but it's very expensive is a rain sheet with bumpy bits on the inside. The bumpy bits make the rug stand up off the horse, therefore you have a dry clean horse than can still regulate it's own temperature - anyone use that?
 
Well it is down to the individual to manage their horse. I never rug my lad but sometimes wonder if I am mad in not putting a light weight on him...when he appears across the field in mud that you could only ever get off with a chisel!!!
 
In November I had what many would consider to be an overweight, over rugged full native. However she wasn't any of those. She's actually connie x tb, although can easily be passed off as a connie. Her coat is long, but silky & not a dense, greasy, warm natives coat. In Nov she's always between a 3 & 3.5 condition wise, which she loses slowly over winter, but decent topline & fluff make her look bigger than she is. And the wet weather at the time left 2 choices. Stand in sheltered area & don't graze, or stand in field centre with rain lashing down. And, she's 23, even though she doesn't look it, both condition wise & because she hasn't fully greyed out. So some nights she wore a hw combo turnout in only Nov, as a hairy, healthy native. But, she was actually an ideal temp. Because none of the above is obvious unless I told you, or you really got your hands on her & examined closely. Plus, she has no tolerance for cold. I washed her legs the other day in warm water & then rinsed with the hose. She was miserable as hell till I threw warm water over the cold. She's pretty particular about her home comforts, & while she wouldn't die without them, she's a pet I enjoy indulging.
Conversely, daughters pony at the time looked under rugged. Not very fluffy, fine, & not very native like, & like a drowned rat. At 5 she doesn't have the topline of mine, she's a dainty build too. And her coat doesn't grow long, but is insanely waterproof & dense, despite her non native appearance. Also between 3 & 3.5 condition wise, but unless you look closely gives the impression of slimness even with well covered ribs. So happily unrugged. My point is its hard to judge without knowing the full circumstances. However I have yet to meet a horse that requires 7 rugs.
 
maccachic said:
Really you find starvation paddocks acceptable?

This is the biggest mistake I made as a kid with ponies and I feel guilty about it to this day, but that was what people at ponyclub advised, I wish someone had stepped in and explained the damage we were doing to the ponies by locking them up without feed for extended periods of time.

I think a horse in a sable has a greater requirement for rugs than one out in a paddock, they cannot move round to warm up whereas a paddocked horse can.

I personally hate seeing ponies fully rugged up in the middle of summer to keep there coats nice for showing grr. Mines are always unrugged over summer and I have brought home wide ribbons.
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Yes of course I think it's acceptable it apporiate sized contained a mix of poor quality forage he had sight of pals he was in fab condition but a little on the porky side but not an OMG fat case and was exercised regularily ( walked with dogs) he was a happy little chap ,did I say he was locked up with no food ?
What else would YOU do with a Shetland ?
Some people need to get real about what a welfare officer does if you think a Shetland in a small paddock is unacceptable and something you would get involved in , actually though I did advise about signage to prevent people putting food in for him I arrange for a local vet number and mine to put on the fence so nosy parkers could ring and be told that this was apporiate management for this pony.
The next winter I got a pony with no rug call about him .
 
I don't have an issue with starvation paddocks either. Ime it means a paddock with no grass, or at least none visible. Used for cases where grazing intake has to be either very limited or zero, so it allows the horse unrestricted turnout with more suitable forage. Only thing that isn't ideal is that they tend to be small, when in an ideal world roaming over a good few acres would be better. However short of using a horrid knee deep mud bath, or wood chipping several acres of mud, spending a fortune on drainage etc that isn't usually practical for a horse not allowed any grass. Imo starvation paddocks are no different to yards that use hard standing or arenas with hay as winter turnout. I'd much prefer to see a pony out in a small bare paddock, healthy & with straw/old soaked hay most of the time to a crippled laminitic or one stood in a stable.
 
The_angel_littlelegs said:
I don't have an issue with starvation paddocks either. Ime it means a paddock with no grass, or at least none visible. Used for cases where grazing intake has to be either very limited or zero, so it allows the horse unrestricted turnout with more suitable forage. Only thing that isn't ideal is that they tend to be small, when in an ideal world roaming over a good few acres would be better. However short of using a horrid knee deep mud bath, or wood chipping several acres of mud, spending a fortune on drainage etc that isn't usually practical for a horse not allowed any grass. Imo starvation paddocks are no different to yards that use hard standing or arenas with hay as winter turnout. I'd much prefer to see a pony out in a small bare paddock, healthy & with straw/old soaked hay most of the time to a crippled laminitic or one stood in a stable.
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^^ This. In the past we've had a fairly decent starvation paddock where they can have a hoon and normally share the paddock. And starvation patches about a stable size when the horse is requiring lots of movement taken away but would throw itself around in a box. Ours were on grass, patches had nothing in the way of grazing, paddock did as were for different reasons.

They are not for a healthy horse but they are a godsend for lami prone or other injuries.
 
maccachic said:
Really you find starvation paddocks acceptable?

I wish someone had stepped in and explained the damage we were doing to the ponies by locking them up without feed for extended periods of time.
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Yes.

You probably were! They shouldn't be without feed. Anything in starvation is carefully monitored and has regular forage and depending on what is patched/paddocked for feed. I've never put a horse in starvation and not had regular forage on top of the minimal grazing in there.
 
Blurr said:
I'll give it a shot!

As we're all aware, one way for a horse to regulate its temperature is to raise their hair. Once we rug, we prevent this as the hair cannot be raised. Therefore, when rugging we not only have to rug according to the weather conditions but rug to compensate for the fact that we are not letting the natural coat do its job. Therefore horses can look over rugged when they're not.

A lot depends on the environment. If there's no shelter but the wind and rain are driving, rugging can be essential to prevent weight loss through shivering and to prevent things such as rain scald (which 'wild' ponies suffer from a lot).

I've got rugged and unrugged horses - all done according to their needs.

One rug I have seen and like the look of but it's very expensive is a rain sheet with bumpy bits on the inside. The bumpy bits make the rug stand up off the horse, therefore you have a dry clean horse than can still regulate it's own temperature - anyone use that?
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Great! Thank you :) finally a proper answer.... I've seen those rugs, called Coolheat rugs, dying to try one out! What do you think of them?

My problem with most rugged horses is they do no or little work, get clipped out then need rigging which in actual fact they could just be left hairy :-/

I have no problem with clipping and rugging, I do just that because my horse would overheat doing endurance with a full winter coat.
 
The YO always over rugs my boy! I often go down in the evenings to find he's wearing his full neck hw stable rug with his full neck hw turnout in his stable. He's an unclipped tb.. But because he's a tb he must be wrapped up excessively apparently...!
 
Realistically it is ludicrous to compare a good doer native pony with a full coat with plenty of grazing and good natural shelter, to a fully clipped poor doer sports horse with poor grazing.

They have different needs, and should be rugged (or not rugged) accordingly.

There are always people who go to extremes - 7 rugs seems completely unnecessary to me - and of course a horse shouldn't be sweating under its rugs.

However, if a horse is a comfortable temperature then surely it is nobody's business but that of the owner?

My horse is fully clipped, and I rug him according to how he feels - at the base of his ears and in his armpits. I rug less than some, and more than others - but at the end of the day I do what is right for him to keep him comfortable.

I would not appreciate other people judging my decisions, but I'm lucky enough to be on a yard where I can trust the other people there to take off or add a rug if they noticed he was too cold or warm.
 
Well no one knows my horses or even what 7 rugs they could be wearing, they are never sweaty and never ever just left in rugs when temps change so do their rugs, I spend my life changing tugs
 
Seven rugs?? Why? Surely rugs are made nowadays in so many different togs and weights that there is no need to to pile seven of them on!! It must be like wearing a bluddy straight jacket!
 
Beans2000 said:
Well no one knows my horses or even what 7 rugs they could be wearing, they are never sweaty and never ever just left in rugs when temps change so do their rugs, I spend my life changing tugs
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Please do share. I'd be very interested to know what the composition of 7 rugs on a horse is - and what the ultimate weight that comes to in terms of filling.

When it gets colder, I tend to up the weight of the rugs, rather than the number.

I cannot think of a reason why using more than 2 or 3 rugs would be either necessary or preferable. However I'm perfectly prepared to be corrected if there is a good reason.
 
I think we're all focusing on this 7 rugs thing-may I weigh in that I think it was a sarcastic remark?

I've known Murphy for more than 11 years, since we were both 15. Cob, good doer, great winter coat, looked at feed and got fat etc, we all know the type. He was never rugged.

Fast forward a few years, we're about 21/22, arthritis sets in and exercise is cut to a short leisurely hack and he would let me know when he'd had enough. This is the first year he is rugged (in a MW which we still have!) as condition was beginning to drop as it does with oldies. He made it through the next few winters on this regime perfectly well.

This year, we're 26, he lost condition over summer as a result of a move to a more sheltered yard for his twilight years and the fact our weather was so bad the grass was sparse (this yard 13 years ago when I rode a horse there was nothing but lush, a shame weather has gotten so bad over the years) so he had a lightweight rug on in the colder days, being so stiff he couldn't move as much as the rest to keep warm.

Autumn set in, the snow arrived and I bought a HW rug with neck due to age and condition. YO suggested putting his MW over the top as well. Since then, he's perked up, he's less stiff (stopped his No Bute with no ill effects too!), he's gaining weight despite the minus temps at night. IMO the best decision I've made. There's a 15 yo standardbred at the yard who has 3 rugs on, 3 fairly thin layers to trap heat in, he as well has put weight on since the addition of another.

Over-rugging may not always be over-rugging. Murphy may be a cob and I've been told he needs no rugs, but I know better, and due to the circumstances, know his entire history (despite us being the same age lol!). He's doing better now than in summer.

So I can see both sides, without the advice, Murphy may not be putting weight on when I need him to, but others may disagree with so many rugs. Btw, he's keeping them on for the winter and he's been unshod for a few years now :p

Note: The YOs brother owned Murphy before the man I got him from did and so I didn't mind the advice!
Wow I've written a lot :o
 
Fii said:
Seven rugs?? Why? Surely rugs are made nowadays in so many different togs and weights that there is no need to to pile seven of them on!! It must be like wearing a bluddy straight jacket!
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Very good point, and I do wonder if people actually consider how these various types and weights of rug actually affect the horses movement. I don't think owners give it a second thought. Some of the extra heavy weight rugs are very heavy especially when covered in mud and soaked, yet these rugs are routinely put on elderly horses who are often the ones that struggle to rise after rolling or resting.

I am wintering out a big elderly horse for the very first time in his life. He is injured and is wintering in a small turnout paddock and a lovely big shelter. His idea of a winter coat is a tiny bit of fluff under his tummy, the rest of him is like silk. Watching him roll recently in deep mud in his extra warm, extra huge mega weight rug I realised he really had to work hard to get up, taking two tries to rise and a lot of grunting and puffing. He has stiff hocks and an injured hind.

Watching him made me start thinking about him getting stuck or re-injuring himself and of course, the mud is certainly not improving anytime soon. I decided to experiment with much lighter rugs and at the moment I am using a full neck stable rug (rambo) which although very warm is very light and over the top I use a full neck rain sheet (Shires), no fill, it is very deep and shaped well but again it is very light. In weight terms this combo is featherweight compared to the big turnout rug, but the warmth factor is the same, totally windproof and the horse rolls and rests easily, no effort to get up and he is always warm. I don't worry about finding him stuck either.

I do think thinner layered rugging is the way forward using modern materials in the way that we keep ourselves warm and dry today. Years ago we all had Barbours, heavy, shoulder aching coats, today we are in lighter materials but just as warm.
 
Lolo said:
I don't know. I've heard the less your horse has on it in terms of rugs/ bits/ shoes, the more smug you can be and the more you can judge others... But we have 3 horses, all in shoes, rugs and bits (one even hunts in a Dutch gag. Oops.) so I don't know really ;)
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LOL - hilarious! But so true ........
 
My horse is fully clipped out and was in very poor condition after an injury ment she dropped weight overnight (she was clipped so the vet could accurately see any issues). We are waiting for the clip to grow out.

She is fed a forage only diet of ad lib hay,2x scoops pure easy three times a day and linseed twice a day. She also feels the cold a lot and due to the nature of her injuries, she is standing in her stable for extended periods of the day. She is rugged so that a) the chalories she eats go to putting condition on rather then keep her warm and b) because she naturaly is a 'cold' horse. Thankfully her coat is growing back nice and fluffy. I dont really want the weight of the rugs on her back but for now i have no option.
 
Lolo said:
I don't know. I've heard the less your horse has on it in terms of rugs/ bits/ shoes, the more smug you can be and the more you can judge others... But we have 3 horses, all in shoes, rugs and bits (one even hunts in a Dutch gag. Oops.) so I don't know really ;)
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This made me giggle - so true - but you have forgotten being out 24/7 - very cruel to keep them in a warm dry stable at night time.
 
Wow-eeee am I glad my horses are kept at home. I would be FUMING if I found out some know-it-all busybody was meddling with Fig :mad: Especially re: the later comment about feeding someone elses horse, considering most feeds since Fig loopy!

Fig is a full TB, originally from Oz. He's a very poor doer. He feels the cold very badly. He's not clipped, as he hasn't grown any sort of winter coat. He's in full time work, competing Nov/Elem and schooling at Advanced Medium.

It takes nearly £100 in hard feed alone a month to keep him looking like this:
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And I put 100% effort in to every ride 4/5 times a week to keep him soft and supple so the work I'm asking of him is fair on him.

Why on earth should I waste money and effort to have him stiff, bunched up and looking like a sack of ****? Some horses don't need the rugs, or the feed, or to be brought in at night. Some horses do. Fig is one of them.

Currently he's turned out in: snuggy hood mask, 2 x full neck HW and 1 x full neck MW.

He seems pretty happy....
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Stable wise: he's in a cotton magnet sheet, full neck LW, full neck MW, full neck HW, fleecy face mask, and magenetic leg wraps.

He's still lookin pretty happy....
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Now, Fig is barefoot. And ridden in a snaffle. Although he can't be ridden in just a headcollar. But is stabled overnight. So which camp does that put me in? :rolleyes::D
 
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