nikkimariet
Well-Known Member
If you, your horse and your vet are happy....ignore them!
Why are people so unkind?
- Thread starter Birker2020
- Start date
somethingorother
Well-Known Member
I disagree that 2 bute will not mask a lame horse, it does and it will.
I also think that this woman does not understand the situation. To be honest i don't and you've explained it on here. Maybe she is genuinely concerned for the welfare of your horse if all she knows is that it's lame and then you have to bute it up to jump it. If you care what she thinks then explain to her what your vet has said, and if you don't care then ignore her and don't get upset about it.
If i saw someone jumping a lame horse, or buting up a lame horse and jumping it weekly then i would probably mention it too, although probably more as a question than a nasty attack like that.
Hope you can be sure that your horses previous problems are not going to be made worse by competative jumping every week, that's quite strenuous even for a horse without limb problems. I also think that extra £20 a month reason does not stick when you are out competing every weekend.
I don't mean to be nasty but i'm not just going to tell you what you want to hear and childishly just say 'she's jealous!!!' She has expressed what is in my opinion a valid concern, although obviously in a very uncalled for and quite nasty way.
I also think that this woman does not understand the situation. To be honest i don't and you've explained it on here. Maybe she is genuinely concerned for the welfare of your horse if all she knows is that it's lame and then you have to bute it up to jump it. If you care what she thinks then explain to her what your vet has said, and if you don't care then ignore her and don't get upset about it.
If i saw someone jumping a lame horse, or buting up a lame horse and jumping it weekly then i would probably mention it too, although probably more as a question than a nasty attack like that.
Hope you can be sure that your horses previous problems are not going to be made worse by competative jumping every week, that's quite strenuous even for a horse without limb problems. I also think that extra £20 a month reason does not stick when you are out competing every weekend.
I don't mean to be nasty but i'm not just going to tell you what you want to hear and childishly just say 'she's jealous!!!' She has expressed what is in my opinion a valid concern, although obviously in a very uncalled for and quite nasty way.
Booboos
Well-Known Member
You can always compete H/C. That way your horse has fun and you don't have an unfair advantage (sorry, I do think that painkillers are an unfair advantage in a competition and rightly banned by the rules).
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Thank you Pastie. I am a 41 year old female, the man holding my horse in my siggy is my Dad, the other chap is my O/H!
I do know my own mind, but I am a sensitive soul too, and do get upset when people say such nasty things, I am only human after all.
And somethingorother my horse is not lame. I have had a 3/4 hour lesson tonight from a new instructor who doesn't know me or my horse. I have walked, trotted, cantered, leg yielded, done loads of transitions and lengthening/shortening strides. I asked my instructor if my horse was lame in his lesson and she said no, although she had noticed he was short for about five strides when first trotted, which dissapeared straight away. This is typical of any 14 year old horse who has had a hard life and has been diagnosed with bone spavin. I have taken part in approx 15 - 20 dressage tests since my horse was diagnosed with bone spavin in 2009. Not once has any dressage judge ever commented that my horse is lame. I have also done three three day events one two day event and six or seven one day events since diagnosis along with at least 10 fun rides. No one has ever made any comment on my horse being lame. I have only started giving him bute before jumping for about the last six months.
As far as I am aware the girl who 'knows it all but knows nothing' hasn't seen me ride my horse for months. It is jealousy pure and simple. I appreciate your views on the subject but I feel comfortable that I do the very best for my horse under the instructions of my vet. I agree that if the horse was lame and I was buting him in order to compete it would be wrong. I am just making him more comfortable in the meantime. x
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narkymare
Well-Known Member
what a cold comment - im 44 and still get very upset by what people say or think especailly where my horse is concerned
somethingorother
Well-Known Member
Well, i think 2 bute is a lot for a horse that isn't lame. He is either comfortable jumping or he's not. If he's not then i would worry about what damage is being done. Because pain normally means a problem.
But if you just want us all to go along with you and say 'ahhh she's jealous, innit, you enjoy your horse and do whatever you want with it and no one should ever say anything because no one could ever have anything valid to say' then there ya go.
Also, i was attempting to answer the question in the title....
But if you just want us all to go along with you and say 'ahhh she's jealous, innit, you enjoy your horse and do whatever you want with it and no one should ever say anything because no one could ever have anything valid to say' then there ya go.
Also, i was attempting to answer the question in the title....
NOISYGIRL
Well-Known Member
My horse has had Danilon for the last 10+ years, I'm trialling NoBute Premium at the moment, have found it very good, I've decided to just use Danilon if he does something stupid in the field and twists something, I've found the Nobute better if not the same as being on Danilon. I'll soon see when the hard ground comes, if he needs it he'll have it end of, I'd much rather the time he has left be comfortable, he is 32 by they way.
OP if you and your vet are happy for you to carry on then do so, you will know when its time to stop
Spotsrock
Well-Known Member
People are 'unkind' because we are all different, sometimes when you are not sure how to approach a topic it may come out in a rush and sound hurtful when it is not meant to be, sometimes when we are jealous we don't even realise it but may act in a way we would not normally act as a result. Some people just don't think before they speak and may have thicker skins than you so wouldn't be offended themselves, some enjoy making others unhappy and I don't know how to deal with those.
L my 31 y/o is on 'buteless' a herbal liquid from equine america. I have been told by people similar to OP's yard mate to just retire her. She gets sooo bored and even fatter when not in some work. I ride and lead her on the odd nice quiet hack to stop her getting bored, I try to school her once a week and Sharers 5 y/o brother and my 5 y/o neice ride her occassionally.
She is really short behind without the liquid but my Mctim prac and vet are happy for her to be ridden as much as she will do to keep her as fit as possible for her heart. The Buteless seems to be doing the trick for now with vets backing. Vet is happy to give her bute as and when she needs it but agrees if she is managing on the buteless we'll save the bute for if she gets sore-er. She has so many other issues I couldn't take away her ability to be useful, she would be miserable.
Intending on doing some little local showing this summer so double dose herbal liquid the day before and maybe a bute when she gets home to combat any stiffness from travelling, that way she won't be showing on a substance banned by any regulatory body.
I certainly don't think I am doing wrong by my horse, yes she is stiff and a little uncomfortable sometimes but she loves standing with the sun on her face or rolling in the snow. Her face lights up when you go into her stable with a saddle, she grabs the bit before you try to put it in and jogs along head up looking all around at her surroundings when we go out, ridden or led. She points her little toes and almost tracks up in a lovely semblence of an outline without any encouragment in the school and loves pretending to be a 12.2 with the kiddies patiently putting up with everything and trying to work out what the excited little people want her to do!
I'd reserve judgment on OP jumping on Bute as bit different from my situation and I don't know all the facts but I certainly wouldn't condem on what I know. Sorry, that got a bit long, must do some work!!
L my 31 y/o is on 'buteless' a herbal liquid from equine america. I have been told by people similar to OP's yard mate to just retire her. She gets sooo bored and even fatter when not in some work. I ride and lead her on the odd nice quiet hack to stop her getting bored, I try to school her once a week and Sharers 5 y/o brother and my 5 y/o neice ride her occassionally.
She is really short behind without the liquid but my Mctim prac and vet are happy for her to be ridden as much as she will do to keep her as fit as possible for her heart. The Buteless seems to be doing the trick for now with vets backing. Vet is happy to give her bute as and when she needs it but agrees if she is managing on the buteless we'll save the bute for if she gets sore-er. She has so many other issues I couldn't take away her ability to be useful, she would be miserable.
Intending on doing some little local showing this summer so double dose herbal liquid the day before and maybe a bute when she gets home to combat any stiffness from travelling, that way she won't be showing on a substance banned by any regulatory body.
I certainly don't think I am doing wrong by my horse, yes she is stiff and a little uncomfortable sometimes but she loves standing with the sun on her face or rolling in the snow. Her face lights up when you go into her stable with a saddle, she grabs the bit before you try to put it in and jogs along head up looking all around at her surroundings when we go out, ridden or led. She points her little toes and almost tracks up in a lovely semblence of an outline without any encouragment in the school and loves pretending to be a 12.2 with the kiddies patiently putting up with everything and trying to work out what the excited little people want her to do!
I'd reserve judgment on OP jumping on Bute as bit different from my situation and I don't know all the facts but I certainly wouldn't condem on what I know. Sorry, that got a bit long, must do some work!!
pip6
Well-Known Member
When I've been on livery yards the nastiest owners have been those who seem totally frustrated by their own shortcomings.
There was the one who refused to have her horse, in huge amounts of pain & diagnosed with internal tumuors pts, & kept him on high dose danilon (after using bute for years) & he'd just stand in the stable & groan with the pain. She kept him alive as it was a good excuse for her not riding, rather than admit she was scared. Since old boy died very painful death (vet insisted on pts) bought youngster that she's fallen off & now pays someone else to ride. Then there was the drssage diva who thought everyone else was rubbish, even though she had issues with her horse rearing & bolting with her (could it have been the spurs & double bridle mixed with heavy hands?). The girls who had jumping aspirations but lack of training at home menat they never progressed (spent their time talking about it rather than practising). The dumb rich young girl who massively had a go at the most caring owner for not having her old girl pts (vet said she was comfy & happy for her to be retired), yet when both her horses diagnosed with painful worsening conditions keeps riding them.
It was always aimed at those going out & enjoying their horses in any capacity. I always looked past the spite & saw the shortcomings in their own life, & put their behaviour down to their insecurities. If you can see it as a reaction like this, you pity them rather than get upset by them & it is much easier to walk away from.
There was the one who refused to have her horse, in huge amounts of pain & diagnosed with internal tumuors pts, & kept him on high dose danilon (after using bute for years) & he'd just stand in the stable & groan with the pain. She kept him alive as it was a good excuse for her not riding, rather than admit she was scared. Since old boy died very painful death (vet insisted on pts) bought youngster that she's fallen off & now pays someone else to ride. Then there was the drssage diva who thought everyone else was rubbish, even though she had issues with her horse rearing & bolting with her (could it have been the spurs & double bridle mixed with heavy hands?). The girls who had jumping aspirations but lack of training at home menat they never progressed (spent their time talking about it rather than practising). The dumb rich young girl who massively had a go at the most caring owner for not having her old girl pts (vet said she was comfy & happy for her to be retired), yet when both her horses diagnosed with painful worsening conditions keeps riding them.
It was always aimed at those going out & enjoying their horses in any capacity. I always looked past the spite & saw the shortcomings in their own life, & put their behaviour down to their insecurities. If you can see it as a reaction like this, you pity them rather than get upset by them & it is much easier to walk away from.
X
xspiralx
Guest
Does she not clearly state in her first post that she is acting on the advice of her vet?
If the vet has said it is fine to jump him but bute will help ease stiffness, then what's the problem? Its the equivalent of a person taking a couple of paracetamol if they're feeling a bit creaky - it does not necessarily mean it is masking a problem or that damage is being done.
seadog
Well-Known Member
All competition rules will state that you can't compete on bute.
If the horse can't do it without he shouldn't be doing it with, he could do himself some damage - if he doesn't feel pain there he may make the problem worse. Im supprised your vet advised competing on 2 bute and even more supprised at the reaction you got on this thread.
Having said that I do not know the horse or person so dont take any notice of me
If the horse can't do it without he shouldn't be doing it with, he could do himself some damage - if he doesn't feel pain there he may make the problem worse. Im supprised your vet advised competing on 2 bute and even more supprised at the reaction you got on this thread.
Having said that I do not know the horse or person so dont take any notice of me
pip6
Well-Known Member
I would respect the vets advice. The question has been asked & he has given an answer. I take (strong) painkillers every day for an old injury, does that mean I should do nothing? It helps me to keep moving, & believe me at the point where I d more damage it is so sore it soon reminds me to back off. If you pay hard earned money for an educated proessional opion, such as vet or farrier, then you need a good reason not to listen to it. I always feel stiffer the 2 days after doing something, I'm not injured, just a bit stiff, doesn't mean I've made my problem worse.
As for competing on bute, well is it affiliated level? Bet at local level it isn't written in the rules that horses have to conform to FEI drug regulations & there will be random testing. It means nothing, there's little prize money on offer (definately one with fun rides), it's just getting out & having fun, both horse & rider. He isn't lame, & as he only takes it intermittantly if there was an increase in the problem it would soon be apparent. As another poster said, if your worried about being accused of competing on drugs, go HC, so it truly is just for the fun of it. Some horses just don't want to retire to standing in a field all day.
As for competing on bute, well is it affiliated level? Bet at local level it isn't written in the rules that horses have to conform to FEI drug regulations & there will be random testing. It means nothing, there's little prize money on offer (definately one with fun rides), it's just getting out & having fun, both horse & rider. He isn't lame, & as he only takes it intermittantly if there was an increase in the problem it would soon be apparent. As another poster said, if your worried about being accused of competing on drugs, go HC, so it truly is just for the fun of it. Some horses just don't want to retire to standing in a field all day.
DragonSlayer
Well-Known Member
Personally, if I had to give my horse bute to make her more comfortable when competing, I wouldn't do it, but thats me.
As for going out every weekend, why don't you cut it down, and use what you save to buy the no bute premium? It's fabulous stuff, worth every penny.
I'd probably be the one telling you you were cruel to jump your horse on bute, though maybe in a more roundabout way......
It's alright comparing bute to a couple of paracetamol, but horses can't tell use just how much pain they are in, and yes, although they might appear to enjoy themselves, it's the damage that COULD be done whilst you are enjoying yourself.
No competing on bute rules are now there for a reason, this should be obvious.
Anyway, I do hope you consider what some people have said here, afterall...you posted for responses.....and I hope it gives you a better view!
As for going out every weekend, why don't you cut it down, and use what you save to buy the no bute premium? It's fabulous stuff, worth every penny.
I'd probably be the one telling you you were cruel to jump your horse on bute, though maybe in a more roundabout way......
It's alright comparing bute to a couple of paracetamol, but horses can't tell use just how much pain they are in, and yes, although they might appear to enjoy themselves, it's the damage that COULD be done whilst you are enjoying yourself.
No competing on bute rules are now there for a reason, this should be obvious.
Anyway, I do hope you consider what some people have said here, afterall...you posted for responses.....and I hope it gives you a better view!
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Two bute was the recommendation of the vet who suggested two bute every day for life also, but like I explained before I was not prepared to go down this route. He isn't lame AND he's not in pain. Look, I take anti inflammatories as I have a large slipped disc. Sometimes the back doesn't hurt. But the tablets are there to help to keep the pain at bay. I've decided that as the anti inflammatories aren't working and my pain is still there to go ahead and have the epidural injection. Its the same principle. I am just trying to make him comfortable on vets advice in case he is jarred whilst jumping. If it gets to the stage where he is lame i.e due to pain (which I suspect all lameness stems from) then he will have the injections into his hock (I've already provisionally booked him in with the vet for later in the year).
And I don't want you to say 'ahh she's jealous or anything of the kind'. I'm more than happy for people to have a different opinion than mine.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Happy for difference of opinion as I have said to SOMETHING OR OTHER but don't forget I am taking vets advice by giving him the bute. If the vet thinks its appropriate then I am guessing it is.
But heh, you may know more than my vet, who am I to question this?
And I go out every weekend as I want to do as much with my horse as I can whilst I have him. Having lost four in under seven years, and about to lose my job again at the end of next month I am sure even you can understand this reasoning. Life is for living and all that.
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NELSON11
Well-Known Member
I am going to step in here. I do not agree with the slanging match that went on the other night, and I agree hurtful things were said. Having said that.
I think the lady you are referring to, believes you were being critical towards her and others by overhearing you discussing the fact that you feel people should be pushing themselves and competing as you do instead of them taking it slower with their horses. For what I am led to believe it was a direct result of her taking offence to what she believes was a critiscism direct from yourself to another livery (especially someone new) about her and other folk on the yard
You will openly admit you are free with your own opinions Applecart without always engaging first and people do take offence, Me included in the past as you are well aware so whilst I do not think it should of been a slating match, people will react sometimes. No one questions you don't love and care for Bailey, But people do things differently and neither your way or necessarily anyone elses way is the correct way.
As I am the Vet physio mentioned in this, I agree you must always be under guidance from your vet and to the truth of my knowledge you are.
So what I suggest you do. like two grown up ladies, is sit down with a coffee with each other and try and agree to disagree on this, and maybe both of you will think more in the future.
I think the lady you are referring to, believes you were being critical towards her and others by overhearing you discussing the fact that you feel people should be pushing themselves and competing as you do instead of them taking it slower with their horses. For what I am led to believe it was a direct result of her taking offence to what she believes was a critiscism direct from yourself to another livery (especially someone new) about her and other folk on the yard
You will openly admit you are free with your own opinions Applecart without always engaging first and people do take offence, Me included in the past as you are well aware so whilst I do not think it should of been a slating match, people will react sometimes. No one questions you don't love and care for Bailey, But people do things differently and neither your way or necessarily anyone elses way is the correct way.
As I am the Vet physio mentioned in this, I agree you must always be under guidance from your vet and to the truth of my knowledge you are.
So what I suggest you do. like two grown up ladies, is sit down with a coffee with each other and try and agree to disagree on this, and maybe both of you will think more in the future.
DragonSlayer
Well-Known Member
Happy for difference of opinion as I have said to SOMETHING OR OTHER but don't forget I am taking vets advice by giving him the bute. If the vet thinks its appropriate then I am guessing it is.
But heh, you may know more than my vet, who am I to question this?
And I go out every weekend as I want to do as much with my horse as I can whilst I have him. Having lost four in under seven years, and about to lose my job again at the end of next month I am sure even you can understand this reasoning. Life is for living and all that.
Did I say I know more than your vet? No. I said I wouldn't do it.
Don't come onto a forum and expect everyone to agree with you, it's not going to happen.
Sure. life might be for living, but my horses won't be suffering because of it.
christine48
Well-Known Member
Ignore them. There's so much jealousy and bitching in the horse world. Everyone has an opinion on what everyone else should be doing. Your horse sounds as if he's happy and comfortable, you'll know when he isn't enjoying competing anymore. Sometimes the worst thing you can do is retire them too soon.
Puppy
Well-Known Member
Not *just* you DS. I'm with you on this one.
Something than immediately sprang to my mind when reading the thread!!
diggerbez
Well-Known Member
don't know about pure unafil but at RC i have known people be dope tested.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Right thanks guys for your comments both good and bad, and also from my friend. Have decided not to bute any more and let my poor lad be uncomfortable at times but at least I will have his 'welfare' at heart by doing this and not buting him to make him comfortabel (allegedly). It might stop the nasty comments about me, my horse and the state of my mental health which was also commented on. Shame, I really wish I'd just kept quite about buting my horse in the first place and not told anyone. Just goes to show that honesty is not always the best answer. I never expected my so called friend to turn on me with the venom she did.
I am not going to comment on this post anymore.
I am not going to comment on this post anymore.
diggerbez
Well-Known Member
i think that you are overreacting slightly. if the vet has okayed it don't worry- or alternatively try one of the herbal buteless remedies instead... as you've said its about £20 a month- so if you go out 3x a month instead of 4 you should easily be able to afford that???
Booboos
Well-Known Member
Sorry but this is a bizarre response to a post where the majority of people have agreed that you are right to bute the horse on the advice of your vet. Seems like you don't want advice, you want to feel hardone by really.
HBB
Well-Known Member
^^ I think this is completely unprofessional. As the OP is your client, you should refrain from taking sides. You are a vet physio, you should remember your client confidentiality codes!
Applecart, ignore them, you are doing the best for your horse. The majority of posters on this post support you. Keep your chin up!
Natch
Well-Known Member
Good post.
Seems to me that there are mainly two schools of thought on this. Put simply, one that says bute a horse to make him able to work in the short to medium term, one says pain is there for a reason and would choose long term holistic management of the horse over shorter term working life.
NEITHER opinion is better than the other - it just depends on your point of view. A vet can take either opinion too, based on the owner's wishes, and still be acting in the horse's best interests.
OP, the dramatic final post doesn't portray you in a great light, because you are now claiming to do something which you and your vet believe is wrong for your situation.
DragonSlayer
Well-Known Member
Oh for goodness sake!
This is another of those 'oh, woe is me, I didn't like what I read, so I'll turn it around to try a bit of emotional stuff and flounce off in a huff' type-last post....
This is a forum available to the whole world if they so desire!
No-one has been out and out nasty!
Accept opinions will be different to yours and be done with it!
CeeBee
Well-Known Member
Two sides to every story - it appears you weren't the only one upset.
Posts like this one remind me just how lucky I am to have my 2 fields with no facilities but the joy of not having anyone bitch about me, or indeed, me about them - human nature I'm afraid!
Hope you manage to get it all resolved.
p.s. your horse looks lovely
DragonSlayer
Well-Known Member
Two sides to every story - it appears you weren't the only one upset.
Posts like this one remind me just how lucky I am to have my 2 fields with no facilities but the joy of not having anyone bitch about me, or indeed, me about them - human nature I'm afraid!
Hope you manage to get it all resolved.
p.s. your horse looks lovely
Great innit? We have our own place too, can't beat it!
tristar
Well-Known Member
examine your true feelings, you have the right to make your own right decisions.
tell this woman to mind her own business, and ask her if she has her own horse why is she not busy attending to it?
if all else fails tell em to sod off angrily, this will show them you have teeth and are not to be messed with, then have a little laugh, next time you see her smile and say hello, she will understand that she upset you and that you have a right to your feelings
you're feeling extra sensitive because you are rightly worried about your horse, it takes its toll when there is a health issue, you have enough to deal with, but don't look to others for sympathy or understanding, they cannot know until they have been in your shoes.
i do understand, i have been there, i know the loneliness of worrying about a much loved horse, and dealing at the same time with difficult people, and eventually coming through it as i hope you will.
tell this woman to mind her own business, and ask her if she has her own horse why is she not busy attending to it?
if all else fails tell em to sod off angrily, this will show them you have teeth and are not to be messed with, then have a little laugh, next time you see her smile and say hello, she will understand that she upset you and that you have a right to your feelings
you're feeling extra sensitive because you are rightly worried about your horse, it takes its toll when there is a health issue, you have enough to deal with, but don't look to others for sympathy or understanding, they cannot know until they have been in your shoes.
i do understand, i have been there, i know the loneliness of worrying about a much loved horse, and dealing at the same time with difficult people, and eventually coming through it as i hope you will.
somethingorother
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone is saying stop buting him. I was more saying should you really be jumping him so much if he is in pain after it. Just you can't seem to decide if he is in pain or not depending on who you are responding too.