why are so many breeders/vets unwilling to use frozen semen?

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htobago

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This is puzzling me - not to mention driving me nuts!

My 3yo Arab stallion is proving exceptionally popular in his first season at stud, with about 25 mares booked. To save wear and tear on him at this tender age, and all the stress and anxiety for us of having to get chilled semen to breeders 'on demand', I have been trying to persuade people to use his frozen semen, which is already stored at Twemlows.

But even when the breeders are willing, their vets almost always say no, they want chilled semen. The only exceptions are breeders in Europe, who of course have to use frozen. My boy's semen freezes extremely well - both according to the Twemlows tests and the Belgian stud that has 2 mares in foal to him at first attempt by this method (one a difficult mare who hadn't taken with another stallion earlier this year) and will be breeding 2 more to him in the next week or so.

Why are UK vets so reluctant to use frozen, when apparently all the latest research shows that it is just as effective as chilled?

I understand that using frozen requires more skill/experience on the part of the vet - but they never admit that this is the reason for their reluctance!
 
There are many reasons. The majority of vets in the UK are not equine reproduction specialists and most practices cater for both large and small animals.
Even those that do routine equine reproduction work are not equipped to store frozen semen and to receive visiting mares onsite.
Fresh chilled semen is very straight forwards and the vet can follow a mares progress during normal surgery hours at the premises of the mare owner and inseminate during normal surgery hours too.
However with frozen semen the mare needs to be closely monitored to observe her ovulation to be sure that the insemination takes place within a six hour post ovulation period, this often means routinely scanning a mare through the night which few vets are prepared to do.
However having said that the use of ovulpant now gives vets greater freedom but not all vets are experienced enough to detect when the ovuplant should be inserted.
Therefore mare owners need to send mares to AI centres that specialise with the use of frozen semen which are often not in their local vacinity and who very often charge hefty fees, double of what is charged on the continent.
Personally I prefer using frozen semen as we have it there when needed. Last year we ordered fresh chilled semen that never arrived on time from Germany and both mares had ovulated. The vets fees still had to be paid, the shipping still had to be paid. Total over £500 down the tubes as vet charged £230 plus vat per cycle per mare plus shipping and collection fee from stallion owner £70. This year the stud increased the collection fee and shipping costs to £110 and was not prepared to take the risk so insisted on frozen semen, shipping costs only £70 once!
The second greatest advantage with many European stallions is that many stallion owners sell the semen per dose of three which is yours to do as you wish. If a pregnancy is acheived with the first dose then the a second or even a third can be acheived. Not all stallion owners are quite as generous so its always wise to check the terms and conditions.
 
totally agree with opie - if your vets have in the practice an uptodate specialst (which mine has 2) then they will and can use frozen semen.

The alternative would be for you to suggest mares get sent to Twemlows to use the frozen - some mares may be not that far so it would be acceptable and although 'expensive' the vets fees for AI at a stallion station at least don't include the 'call out' charge of using your normal vet so things do balance out.

Also some frozen semen a few years back wasn't that good (i.e.dire) in comparison with chilled and so frozen also got a bit of a 'bad rep' in regard to succeeding in getting mares in foal. Things are better now but that bad rep. will take a while to be forgotten.
 
I think people dont have access to vets who know what they are doing.. We have never had a problem with frozen semen!

This is another problem with British breeding...

Stallions on the continent that are only collected from at a certain time of the year for freezing, generally do better at competitions, as they dont have the set backs of becoming hormonal in the spring (which contributes to the popularity of the continental bloodlines)

If people over here would be more happy to use frozen semen, our stallions would increase in popularity as they would have more success in their careers, as they find it as easy to work as , for example, a gelding that does not have to deal with too much testosterone!!
 
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Stallions on the continent that are only collected from at a certain time of the year for freezing, generally do better at competitions, as they dont have the set backs of becoming hormonal in the spring (which contributes to the popularity of the continental bloodlines)


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Not so sure on the hormone issues
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the majority of stallions on the continent even the top International athletes, stand at public stud suppyling fresh chilled semen during the stud season. We have used OOseven, Lupicor, Krack C, Gribaldi, Contendro, Special D, and Quaterback all using fresh.

Continental stallion owners recognise that they loose too much business when the stallions are offered by frozen semen only. Many of these stallions are covering over 300 mares per year and therefor it is impossible to meet that demand if they don't.

Very few stallions in Europe only offer Frozen semen due to competition commitments if they are out of the country or competing and cannot comply to the 28 residence regulations for exportating fresh, but not through hormonal issues.

Perhaps what we are lacking to encourage the use of uk stallions are skilled riders that can compete hormonal stallions.
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On the continent they just get on with it
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Thanks everyone for your very helpful replies - especially Opie for the detailed explanations!

I knew frozen required more skill but I hadn't realized that it was quite so much more difficult and complicated for vets to use frozen
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- I'll be less grumpy about this now!

Just had news last night that a Belgian stud has just got the third mare in foal to my boy with frozen semen - all three at the first attempt, including a 'difficult breeder'! They are now about to breed a fourth mare to him... They normally use fresh semen but have been delighted with these results from frozen!
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Let's hope more vets acquire the necessary skills and facilities for this!
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There are some VERY simple methods which can be used (using hormon/pharmacological methods) which mean that the mare does not have to be scanned every 6 hours. One injection, followed by one insemination with frozen 30 hours later, and one insemination at 42 hours after the first injection. This method produces success rates of 75-85%: similar to AI (which is more successful than natural covering, when done properly).

The reason I think the vets don't do it is because they think the only way is to scan every 6 hours; which in turn means it's expensive for the owner. Vets charge loads for deep uterine insemination, which really isn't very much more difficult than AI (and I think can be performed easily by an experienced AI technician).

It's so frustrating! Frozen semen is SO useful, and a much underused and underappreciated thing!
 
Wow AndyPandy! Could you maybe get a vet to write a big article about this in H&H so people know about it?

It really would be great if more vets were willing to use frozen - and what you're describing doesn't sound any more difficult than AI with chilled semen!
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Agree with you htobago... I have frozen(GB only at mo) that I pay quite alot of money for it to be stored, and have yet to have some one use it! He has good motility and stud informs me that it thaws well. Having come into breeding late(He is 11, and in his 3rd stud season)I wish more people would give it a try. It seems odd to me when there is so much breeding to continental stallions which must be more complicated to post/shipp (Had a nightmare Bank holiday Sunday a few weeks ago...LONG!!)I would reduce my stud fee for frozen as it would save me time and money as I am a "Drop in" stallion to my local(ish!) stud...I have to allow 4hrs per trip though.. Hmmm more thoughts please..!!!
 
Good point damitjanit - I've just started offering discounts for frozen as well; wish I'd thought of this earlier! But the first breeder I offered this to still decided to use chilled (well, his vets said no to frozen, so he didn't really have much choice
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)!

But since word got round about my boy's great results in Belgium (the breeder has been telling everyone, bless her) I've actually had 2 breeders specifically asking for frozen, so maybe things are looking up!
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Got one being inseminated this week in France with frozen as well....fingers crossed!
 
The advantage you have with frozen semen is that the increased number of bookings over seas and of course you have two breeding seasons. We don't offer a discounted rate for frozen but we do allow our mare owners to use the semen as they choose. So if the mare catches first time the additional doses are theirs to use as they wish, so even if they do obtain additional pregnancies that is to their advantage. Something to consider.
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Andypandy are you talking about ovuplant? I have used these a couple of times this year with chilled semen when we've had awkward timings over the weekend...and was chatting to my vet about them and the implications for frozen semen - he said the same as you that it makes frozen so much simpler and more successful as you know pretty accuratley when they will ovulate.
 
Ovuplant/GnRH or LH/hCG are extremely useful for breeding with frozen semen. Careful monitoring combined with these drugs can make the whole process a whole lot easier!
 
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