Laafet
Well-Known Member
I did have a smile at this as I agree totally.
Why are some people so delusional about their abilities?
- Thread starter MagicMelon
- Start date
I did have a smile at this as I agree totally.
Spit That Out
Well-Known Member
On the other side maybe some people put their horses or even themselves on pedestals and nobody would be good enough in their eyes to loan or ride their horse.
I appreciate that we don't want complete numpties looking after or riding our pride and joys but just because people are coming from riding schools doesn't mean they don't know one end of a horse to the other. I've seen plenty of people with so called equine qualifications that can't jump more than 2ft and people who claim to have been riding for years that struggle to sit to canter!!
My friend had someone who came to trial her horse and although the lady said she had owned her own horse before put a rug on inside out and couldn't wrap a bandage around the horses leg!!!
I'd appreciate the honesty of someone saying they had only ridden ponies at riding schools or hadn't ridden for 10 years rather than someone over egging their abilities. However I feel the frustration with you OP that these people feel they are ready for a WB!
I appreciate that we don't want complete numpties looking after or riding our pride and joys but just because people are coming from riding schools doesn't mean they don't know one end of a horse to the other. I've seen plenty of people with so called equine qualifications that can't jump more than 2ft and people who claim to have been riding for years that struggle to sit to canter!!
My friend had someone who came to trial her horse and although the lady said she had owned her own horse before put a rug on inside out and couldn't wrap a bandage around the horses leg!!!
I'd appreciate the honesty of someone saying they had only ridden ponies at riding schools or hadn't ridden for 10 years rather than someone over egging their abilities. However I feel the frustration with you OP that these people feel they are ready for a WB!
Flicker
Well-Known Member
skint1
Well-Known Member
Yep, my mare is one of those pretty much perfect horses, looks after me despite my appalling riding
We need to conquer hacking alone, but that is more about me than it is about her. I don't ever really want to ride another horse so I don't know what I will do when she retires except look after her to repay her all her kindness toward me!
Lexi_
Well-Known Member
I did the same thing when taking up riding again this year. There was a beginner/novice/intermediate/advanced box to tick and I'm pretty sure I underestimated on all of them. Alas there was no option for "yes I could do that but it was 10 years ago"
I know the definition of advanced is a tricky one but are riding schools really classing people as advanced who can barely canter? I was on the best of the group rides at my old riding school back in the day, so I suppose that would be advanced, and we were schooling properly (half pass, simple flying changes etc) and jumping regularly indoors and outdoors over showjumps and cross country fences.
risky business
Well-Known Member
I don't agree that because someone's only had a Welsh pony that they can't handle anything else.. Iv ridden for 15 years, owned for 8ish years. Iv ridden all sorts but always ended up with ponies doesn't mean I can't ride a horse (who are often more docile than ponies!).
Unfortunately you get all sorts when advertising, you can normally weed out the exaggeraters on the phone with good questioning. Some people are good at talking though unfortunately not so good at actually riding.
Unfortunately you get all sorts when advertising, you can normally weed out the exaggeraters on the phone with good questioning. Some people are good at talking though unfortunately not so good at actually riding.
Cowpony
Well-Known Member
It's also because it's not easy to compare yourself with others because you have two variables - the horse and the rider. If I am on a relatively easy horse and ask for leg yield, say, and somebody else is on a more difficult one and also asks for leg yield, all I see is whether they achieve it or not and all I feel is how well my horse has done it. The instructor on the ground will of course be able to see exactly how each of us has asked and how well each horse has done it, but we as riders don't unless we've got time to stop and watch each other, or can swap horses halfway through a lesson. If you don't have mirrors around the school or a friend to video you it's also difficult to see how you look while riding. If you constantly ride with people who have a good position and you are doing roughly the same things as they are you assume you look like them.
I agree with somebody who put on the follow-up thread that you need two descriptions - how much experience you have of lots of different types of horses and situations and how well you ride. And in fact you could break "well" down further into "effectively" and "prettily". I know plenty of people who look good on a horse but aren't very effective, and vice versa. Unfortunately I am neither
but I keep trying!
I agree with somebody who put on the follow-up thread that you need two descriptions - how much experience you have of lots of different types of horses and situations and how well you ride. And in fact you could break "well" down further into "effectively" and "prettily". I know plenty of people who look good on a horse but aren't very effective, and vice versa. Unfortunately I am neither
but I keep trying!
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
Here is one of the London Riding Schools I rode at.
http://www.trentpark.com/horse-riding/riding-lessons.html
Note the intermediate lesson is where you learn to canter and having done so move into advanced so yes people who had just learned to canter would then move into the advanced.
These people then having worked out that they could share much more cheaply answer adverts classing themselves as advanced riders.
To be fair when I was there, there were several advanced lessons a week and it was known by the staff that some were of a higher standard than others and they would try steer people to the appropriate lesson.
Frosty89
Well-Known Member
The amount of incompetent people really does amaze me at time. Recently I've seen everything from a horse wearing it's saddle on its neck, a child who's only ever ridden a 20year old pony buying a newly broken 4year old, tendon boots on upside down... nearly all of these people consider themselves 'experienced'.
I do however think that nearly all of us have been there at some point, I know I have. When I was 15 I thought I knew it all! I was competing BS (or BSJA back then) very successfully on my 138 pony. When it came to moving on to my first horse to progress to seniors I thought it would be a good idea to buy a 4 year old 17.2hh warmblood. Needless to say I ended up on the floor ALOT and it took a hell of a long time to learn how to ride him. Although I know I made the wrong decision at the time and I'm very lucky the horse didn't end up ruined, I learned so much from my mistake.
I do however think that nearly all of us have been there at some point, I know I have. When I was 15 I thought I knew it all! I was competing BS (or BSJA back then) very successfully on my 138 pony. When it came to moving on to my first horse to progress to seniors I thought it would be a good idea to buy a 4 year old 17.2hh warmblood. Needless to say I ended up on the floor ALOT and it took a hell of a long time to learn how to ride him. Although I know I made the wrong decision at the time and I'm very lucky the horse didn't end up ruined, I learned so much from my mistake.
JadeyB
Well-Known Member
I've been in a similar situation in the past, i have a big, well schooled ex showjumper who i was looking for a sharer for... i even put 'experienced person' on the advert but got all sorts of people contacting me from very young kids to people who were just starting riding. I think some people just spend a lot of time on the internet 'fantasy shopping' (i do it too with equestrian properties! ) so you just need to weed out the serious enquiries. I think all that you can do is be totally honest about your horse and what type of person you are ideally looking for. good luck.
) so you just need to weed out the serious enquiries. I think all that you can do is be totally honest about your horse and what type of person you are ideally looking for. good luck.
Nudibranch
Well-Known Member
It definitely isn't just riding! OH and I are experienced divers - and I mean that in the proper sense of the word. He is an instructor and we have 40 years' worth of diving between us, a lot of it in the UK which is much more challenging than tropical waters. But it is quite scary to see the number of PADI trained people who have racked up maybe 40 or 50 dives joining liveaboard trips where you really do need some proper experience. They can become "advanced" divers very quickly which allows them to dive sites which really are not suitable. I have seen some dangerous things as a result and the dive world is awash with horror stories... so it's definitely not just riding!
Dizzy socks
Well-Known Member
ihatework
Well-Known Member
I can fully sympathise!!
It is very hard work trying to loan/rehome this type of horse. I have one that I am doing likewise with at the moment.
The volume of idiots, day-dreamers, chavs and the like is unbelievable. Much much harder than I was expecting to loan out a cracker of a happy hack that I care a lot about. That said its a numbers game. I'm filtering out the no-go's (probably around 50 or so), and have invited 3 to view!!!
I have come to the conclusion that for the majority it is just plain ignorance due to inexperience to be honest.
It is very hard work trying to loan/rehome this type of horse. I have one that I am doing likewise with at the moment.
The volume of idiots, day-dreamers, chavs and the like is unbelievable. Much much harder than I was expecting to loan out a cracker of a happy hack that I care a lot about. That said its a numbers game. I'm filtering out the no-go's (probably around 50 or so), and have invited 3 to view!!!
I have come to the conclusion that for the majority it is just plain ignorance due to inexperience to be honest.
MungoMadness
Well-Known Member
Please don't pretend that BSAC divers are any better though! The BSAC instructors at my uni club pass everyone, I had to teach people who were doing their sports diver how to kit up! I have actually stopped diving with the club because I don't feel safe. It's down to people instructors and clubs not PADI/BSAC. Sorry for going off topic but I have listened to BSAC instructors slag off PADI when they haven't even taught their own pupils how to kit up! But I agree the diving world is also a minefield of nutters from both sides!
I also think that owners are to blame too. I remember looking for shares as a teenager, and almost every single advert said experienced people only. I wouldn't call myself experienced now let alone then, but everyone was happy for me to share! I shared a showjumper then an ex race horse and then a 4yo. So of course I would respond to adverts asking for experienced riders as I'd yet to find an owner who wasn't happy with me to ride.
windand rain
Well-Known Member
I have always thought of riding as being a bit like driving a car you don't start learning to drive properly until after you have passed your test and are driving on your own. Similarly You don't start learning to ride until you can walk, trot, canter and gallop and most importantly stop when you want to and can start to add the finesse of true riding. I won't add jump because a lot of people really do not like jumping and can be experienced riders without it
spacie1977
Well-Known Member
This morning I got an email from a lady who says she's very experienced as she used to loan a Welsh x pony... again, she might have gained a lot of experience from that I'm sure but a 17hh WB isn't remotely the same as a Welsh x pony (and yes, I've had a few Welsh x's in the past so can compare)
So why is it so many people are delusional in the horse world? Is it because they aren't very experienced so that they are almost a little ignorant as to how different horses can be (and dangerous in the wrong hands)?
I'm curious why you feel there is so much difference between having a Welsh x pony and a 17h warmblood? Every horse is different regardless of size or breed and surely it's the nature of the animal in question matched with the situation of the person wanting to loan the horse that should be considered?
I'm sure I'll get shot down here and there will be people slapping their foreheads with OMG(!) but my situation has proven you don't need to have a lifetime of horse owning experience to take on a large horse. My first horse was a 5 year old 17h Irish Draught, which I bought after a year of riding school lessons (and now I hear the forehead slaps!
Believe me I was under no illusion I was brilliant at riding, and I fully accepted both horse and I needed more schooling. But I also knew I had the confidence to take such a big horse on, keeping him on livery with the previous owner (who competed at a high level and taught) for a couple months before moving him to the riding school where I had my lessons, so I'd be surrounded by experienced people who knew my abilities (or lack of) and could help us along. Yes he tried to take the mick a bit in the first couple months. But I'm just as stubborn as he is big so I stuck with it and learnt fast. A year later, he's much less spooky, we've both come on leaps and bounds with our schooling and we've done our first XC schooling session and first Hunter Trial. I've ridden plenty of small ponies and feel much safer on my big lad as he isn't sharp or particularly strong. And when he's come along more with his schooling, my husband will learn to ride on him (which is the reason I decided to buy a big horse).
I think it's fine to buy or loan a big warm blood if you're not hugely experienced, just as long as it's a nice natured horse and the loaner/buyer is closely supported by a network of experienced people.
The wife
Well-Known Member
This goes back to a thread I started a few weeks back about the seemingly lowering of standards in riding. It's quite sad to be honest, I do feel your pain OP, when we were trying to sell the ginger one, he was described in a way to put even the bravest riders off viewing him but we still had a mother call for her 14yr old daughter who had ridden all the naughty Riding school ponies And was quite insistent about viewing him - which alas never happened. I hope you find somebody nice and genuine for him soon, it's as much of a mine field finding suitable people as it is finding suitable horses these days.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
I actually don't think the Welshie v Warmblood argument is valid either!
Some Welshies can be sharp obnoxious little so and so's!!!
Some warmbloods can be laid back brain-dead lumps.
Some Welshies can be sharp obnoxious little so and so's!!!
Some warmbloods can be laid back brain-dead lumps.
Nudibranch
Well-Known Member
Pongwiffy
Well-Known Member
It's very hard to quantify how good a rider you are as there are so many variables involved, but I think you can tell a lot within a couple of minutes of watching someone ride - maybe you could ask people to send you a video of themselves before you agree to let them try him (or is that rude)? I know I wouldn't have minded doing that when I was looking as the last thing I wanted was to make a complete t*t of myself in front of an owner! However I was also warned by my RI not to 'underhorse' myself either because I was moving on from riding schools to develop my abilities and experience.
Before buying my own project horse I spent many years at riding schools (not being aware that concept of sharing existed) and they ranged from awful to brilliant. The advanced class at my last one involved working in open order and identifying specific issues in the horses' way of going during the warm up, discussing the best approach and exercises to address them and then getting on with our individual schooling sessions whilst the RI would provide us with feedback, tips, asked us to explain what we were doing etc. Despite not being experienced I probably rode just as technically (to elementary level only) and had developed as good a seat as some horse owners who have access to much better bred/exciting/difficult horses.
Unfortunately the only way to get experience of horses like these by either buying one (a gamble) if you can afford your own or by being given an opportunity by someone else who can see you have potential if not the experience yet. Obviously not saying the OP should let anyone with a dream get on their horse BTW I'm just saying it's difficult to make that step up so I suppose you can't blame people for sometimes trying to get access to a better horse then they are used to.
What makes it even harder is the subjectivity of owner's description. One rider's beautifully responsive horse is another person's sharp horse which will be another person's fire-breathing dragon depending on what you are used to or prefer. Size or breed of horse doesn't really come into it. I went to try an experienced jumper and the owner was giving me all the patter about how it was beautifully schooled in dressage too etc. and within 10 minutes, despite allowing a certain amount of tension for having a strange rider it was obvious the horse was as stiff as a board laterally and over it's back, not straight and wasn't accepting the contact properly. Of course it might have been my riding but the horse didn't go much better with the owner either. However its head was tucked in so I suppose it didn't matter it still wasn't supple, straight or tracking up....
Before buying my own project horse I spent many years at riding schools (not being aware that concept of sharing existed) and they ranged from awful to brilliant. The advanced class at my last one involved working in open order and identifying specific issues in the horses' way of going during the warm up, discussing the best approach and exercises to address them and then getting on with our individual schooling sessions whilst the RI would provide us with feedback, tips, asked us to explain what we were doing etc. Despite not being experienced I probably rode just as technically (to elementary level only) and had developed as good a seat as some horse owners who have access to much better bred/exciting/difficult horses.
Unfortunately the only way to get experience of horses like these by either buying one (a gamble) if you can afford your own or by being given an opportunity by someone else who can see you have potential if not the experience yet. Obviously not saying the OP should let anyone with a dream get on their horse BTW I'm just saying it's difficult to make that step up so I suppose you can't blame people for sometimes trying to get access to a better horse then they are used to.
What makes it even harder is the subjectivity of owner's description. One rider's beautifully responsive horse is another person's sharp horse which will be another person's fire-breathing dragon depending on what you are used to or prefer. Size or breed of horse doesn't really come into it. I went to try an experienced jumper and the owner was giving me all the patter about how it was beautifully schooled in dressage too etc. and within 10 minutes, despite allowing a certain amount of tension for having a strange rider it was obvious the horse was as stiff as a board laterally and over it's back, not straight and wasn't accepting the contact properly. Of course it might have been my riding but the horse didn't go much better with the owner either. However its head was tucked in so I suppose it didn't matter it still wasn't supple, straight or tracking up....
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ihatework
Well-Known Member
Um, who mentioned BSAC??!
On the diving theme, I have recently started to learn. Did the PADI open water, and booked to do the advanced in April.
How on earth can PADI call it advanced?!!! You could technically be called Advanced on less than 10 dives and that is the most scary thought ever. Probably why people with 50+ logged dives might consider themselves experienced?
Even scarier is I did my first 'qualified' dive immediately after my open water. We had a guy with us who had 100+ logged dives. We hit a bit of current and he reached 10 bar and had to surface. The guide didn't know what to say ...
MungoMadness
Well-Known Member
That's true I did rather presume I am just so sick of PADI bashing, I'm a PADI trained diver who was helping running a BSAC club last year. All the BSAC instructors obviously thought I was BSAC trained because I got it in the ear constantly about PADI and how we are so much better then them, and vice versa to be fair from certain PADI instructors. Maybe if everyone shut up bitching about each other and concentrated on improving their own diving we'd all be happier better divers. There's pros and cons to both and IMO it depends on your instructor and club rather then qualifications. Sorry I've rather gone off on one but it's a complete bug bear of mine!
I am just so sick of PADI bashing, I'm a PADI trained diver who was helping running a BSAC club last year. All the BSAC instructors obviously thought I was BSAC trained because I got it in the ear constantly about PADI and how we are so much better then them, and vice versa to be fair from certain PADI instructors. Maybe if everyone shut up bitching about each other and concentrated on improving their own diving we'd all be happier better divers. There's pros and cons to both and IMO it depends on your instructor and club rather then qualifications. Sorry I've rather gone off on one but it's a complete bug bear of mine!Moggy in Manolos
Well-Known Member
Yep, my mare is one of those pretty much perfect horses, looks after me despite my appalling riding
Hehe, I like this,its the same for me I think
. My late girl Seren was a superstar easy horse and was incredibly forgiving, willing and honest, she so rarely put a foot wrong in all our 19/20years, and lucky for me Nell appears to also have a very forgiving,willing and honest nature, she can be green at times as she is young, but generally she is incredibly easy to do even when we get those green moments which you expect from a 4 year old, I am very lucky reallyRe the OP, I think unfortunately plenty of people do not fully realise their ability or limitations...
Oh and I have to agree about the welshie thing,I had two Section D's many years ago who could both be very sharp,the stallion was very sensitive and could be a little git,but could turn into a lamb,however, a stallion is not a good comparison here really. The welshie mare was pretty sharp to back and ride too. I have also ridden a 17hh warmblood who was very well behaved at the time
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Mithras
Well-Known Member
You get those fun runners (usually men, often wearing football kit) who line up with the elite athletes at the start and keep up with their more svelte, trained rivals for all of 30 seconds before falling to the kerb, gasping for air.
Or when you are out training on your racing bike, when you stop at a red light, and the red faced punter you have just passed on a hybrid goes through the red light, so intent is he on "beating" you...
DragonSlayer
Well-Known Member
Wow, diving must be brill....but not for me! Tried it once....argh!
Will stick to dry land, don't even do boats!
Nudibranch
Well-Known Member
It is a bit worrying!
MM, I am PADI and BSAC trained, so is OH. I did my PADI in Aus and "converted" to BSAC several years later. OH started with PADI because he was too young for BSAC! To be honest 5-10 years ago I truly would say BSAC had the upper hand as the training is more rigorous - at least it should be in a decent club! However I am a bit fed up of them these days, as club secretary I can categorically say their organisation is pants; and if they can't even get the basic admin right who says the dive training syllabus is actually up to scratch?
But it's also down to the individual and I have to say the worst incidents I've seen abroad have all involved PADI divers. On the flip side a very experienced BSAC instructor in our club died several years ago because she waded out in choppy waters and fell - she hadn't turned her air on before stepping into the water. Anyway I digress - this is an equestrian forum...
Only safe way to dive is to have a good buddy.
khalswitz
Well-Known Member
I think the longer I ride the more novicey I feel!!
I spent a long time riding other peoples horses, playing around on my own, then got a job working with 'breakers and bronkers' as we called them - so I got very good at jumping on just about anything and getting a tune out of it, not amazing riding by any means but versatile. I then Went on to exercise polo ponies whilst at uni, and then started breaking, producing and showing young show horses for a stud farm.
I got my first actual schoolmaster whilst at uni, and despite being a tb x Wb he was very generous to ride (very difficult to manage but a gem to ride). I started competing him and whilst not reaching any amazing heights, he got me jumping 80cm, doing hunter showing successfully, doing hunter trials etc and we schooled to adv medium at home although dressage wasn't really our fave thing.
Current horse I haven't reached a fraction of the same with, he's a VERY tricky ride and very sharp, and very opinionated. Only just starting to compete him now. He makes me feel much more incompetent than my schoolmaster, despite the fact I know my riding has... If not improved, then matured at least. And he has the single bounciest and most uncomfortable canter I've ever ridden, and despite riding loads of horses for years I struggle to sit to him, especially if he hollows and goes on the forehand. And as he regularly skids to a halt at fences I ride very defensively when jumping! So I probably look a right novice on him!
I always ask riding centres what advanced means to them. Generally on attending RSs I say advanced as I'm pretty good at jumping on whatever they give me - however style and grace don't come into that equation! But to an instructor at a clinic etc with my horse I say we are both novices!!
I spent a long time riding other peoples horses, playing around on my own, then got a job working with 'breakers and bronkers' as we called them - so I got very good at jumping on just about anything and getting a tune out of it, not amazing riding by any means but versatile. I then Went on to exercise polo ponies whilst at uni, and then started breaking, producing and showing young show horses for a stud farm.
I got my first actual schoolmaster whilst at uni, and despite being a tb x Wb he was very generous to ride (very difficult to manage but a gem to ride). I started competing him and whilst not reaching any amazing heights, he got me jumping 80cm, doing hunter showing successfully, doing hunter trials etc and we schooled to adv medium at home although dressage wasn't really our fave thing.
Current horse I haven't reached a fraction of the same with, he's a VERY tricky ride and very sharp, and very opinionated. Only just starting to compete him now. He makes me feel much more incompetent than my schoolmaster, despite the fact I know my riding has... If not improved, then matured at least. And he has the single bounciest and most uncomfortable canter I've ever ridden, and despite riding loads of horses for years I struggle to sit to him, especially if he hollows and goes on the forehand. And as he regularly skids to a halt at fences I ride very defensively when jumping! So I probably look a right novice on him!
I always ask riding centres what advanced means to them. Generally on attending RSs I say advanced as I'm pretty good at jumping on whatever they give me - however style and grace don't come into that equation! But to an instructor at a clinic etc with my horse I say we are both novices!!
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
The latest email I've just received 5 minutes ago reads "Iam enquirein about the 17hh bay gelding. Would u consider loan 2 me in the scottish borders? If so would u deliver horse and what would b cost 4 deliverin horse?"
Now, why can these people never seem to be able to spell for a start? And its rather concerning they ask nothing about the horse and are instantly asking how much it would cost for me to deliver said horse! I just replied with "no". Losing the will to live
Now, why can these people never seem to be able to spell for a start? And its rather concerning they ask nothing about the horse and are instantly asking how much it would cost for me to deliver said horse! I just replied with "no". Losing the will to live
khalswitz
Well-Known Member
The latest email I've just received 5 minutes ago reads "Iam enquirein about the 17hh bay gelding. Would u consider loan 2 me in the scottish borders? If so would u deliver horse and what would b cost 4 deliverin horse?"
Now, why can these people never seem to be able to spell for a start? And its rather concerning they ask nothing about the horse and are instantly asking how much it would cost for me to deliver said horse! I just replied with "no". Losing the will to live
I'm sure I remember you saying you live not far from me - have you put an advert to all the local riding clubs/pony clubs? Jen Burnett also has a very extensive email contact list. Maybe worth trying those if you haven't already? I've had a lot of success doing that.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
The latest email I've just received 5 minutes ago reads "Iam enquirein about the 17hh bay gelding. Would u consider loan 2 me in the scottish borders? If so would u deliver horse and what would b cost 4 deliverin horse?"
Now, why can these people never seem to be able to spell for a start? And its rather concerning they ask nothing about the horse and are instantly asking how much it would cost for me to deliver said horse! I just replied with "no". Losing the will to live
I can join in with the head bang moments.
I think this was the best I got for my long term loan light hack ....
Hello, I live near Xxxxxxxx and I'm looking for a sensible horse to lead a novice rider. I am an experienced rider, and have kept a horse in the past. My friend and I intend to go trail riding, to see the uk from horse back. She is a complete novice, so is learning to ride. We have purchased a standardbred, off the track, who is coming on really well, hacking out on the roads with no problems, but my friend is not competent enough to be in complete control of him. So, I need a schoolmaster to lead off. The intention is to buy a second standardbred once xxxxx knows his job, and Xxxxx is confident to ride him. Reason for standardbreds? They are very comfortable for long distance, they pace not trot!! I could offer Xxxxxx a home for about nine months. Would he be sound enough to walk/trot up to 25 miles in a day? We intend on doing 1 to 2 day hacks over the summer, maybe once every 5 weeks or so. He will be living out, not stabled. best regards Xxxxx