Why are some riding instructors like this?

[Marigold4]

I'll just leave this here.

If it's good enough for the likes of Harry Meade and Lucinda Green and co, it ought to be good enough for the rest of us

Thank you for this. Very useful. I'm tempted to send this to her but I don't think it would change her approach.

 

[Marigold4]

You can learn something from everyone. Even if all you learn is how to do it wrong.

TBH I've always done the "introduce concepts in walk", let the horse think it through approach to stuff. I find it weird that there's a school of thought to do otherwise. But there's a reason why my lot all end up very chilled about life, to the point that making the time on an xc course is pretty unlikely!

Which is what I want,: chilled, happy horse enjoying the job

 

[Marigold4]

I have sacked trainers before when they do that to me (the not giving full attention).

I sacked a dressage trainer as she used my lesson to arrange farrier, re-arrange other lessons and take a call from a vet about a routine matter, all in one lesson, whist sitting on her chair and chatting with other people.

My wonderful current trainer does spend the lesson sitting in the chair, but she teaches all day long and has a microphone/earpiece, gives full attention and misses absolutely nothing. She is also amazingly encouraging.

I only started lessons with her this year, and in the first lesson I arrived an emotional wreck because of something that was happening with my mum, who was ill. I didn't even think I would make the lesson at one point, but decided that I would move heaven and earth to get there, even if I only arrived in the to lead the horse in, tell the trainer that life sucks at the moment, have a brief discussion and leave again.

I was in time, the trainer is a proper teacher and realised I was delicate, we had a fantastic lesson where I could actually leave my troubles behind and believe in myself. We have not looked back since!

You need to add your trainers to a list of people never to use, and find another.

I've had that before - when an instructor is on the phone throughtout lesson. I teach (not riding!) and my phone is turned off from start to finish. Maybe we should get our phones out during their lessons and start phoning our friends!!

 

[Marigold4]

£100 ????

If you want a recommendation for an amazing dressage instructor, who trains with Carl, who is about half that before arena hire, but might not be in your area, you cannot go wrong with Di Breeze. Amazingly support and encouraging I wouldn’t have got either going as they could without her.

there are more per square inch in the horse world than anywhere else i have inhabited, bloody fools that is

listen to your own voice inside and well done with the horse

Thank you and next time definitely going on my own and trusting my judgement. It takes longer to start slowly but you build up valuable confidence in each other, I think

 

[Marigold4]

I had a clinic instructor this weekend during the debrief at the end of the lesson tell me 'your horse is more like a 3yo, he has no muscle, no topline, he has no back end, he isn't straight in the trot, he is unbalanced in the canter and he is underpowered - but if he did trot at full power you wouldn't be able to ride it anyway'.

It's not all untrue, but it was said in a very unneccessary way, and has had quite an impact on my confidence with getting out and about in future. I had also gone into the lesson and said firstly that this was our first outing, he has only been in work since Jan and did nothing for years before that and that we are a work in progress, so I didn't pretend to be something I'm not.. It stung and I could quite happily have gotten off and cried to be honest so I completely understand how you feel. Unfortunately I could tell from his demeanour too that I think he had decided within 2 mins of seeing us that I was a numpty who had gone out and bought a flashy, expensive horse that I can't ride one side of - which as everyone knows, is not even nearly the case as he was cheap, I happened upon him and I am wanting to learn..

Write the name down as an avoid going forwards, be glad you stuck to your guns and the horse had a good time, and take her onwards and upwards.

That's awful. Your instructor just didn't listen. How arrogant. Why would anyone feel it's ok to be that mean? Why do we pay for this? There should be an easier way of finding out whether an instructor has actually had any training in how to teach, rather than just setting themselves up through an advert. I only booked mine because it was difficult to book privately but she had the x- country course for the day.

 

[hobo]

I'll just leave this here.

If it's good enough for the likes of Harry Meade and Lucinda Green and co, it ought to be good enough for the rest of us

I think I have just fallen in love with Harry Meade that was a lovely video.

 

[ester]

I did a yard visit to Harry's a few years ago, which was followed up by a course walk at gatcombe. I found him super interesting to listent to. At that time he had a horse on the yard who had just won the (7?) year olds at le lion with someone else and he was definitely restarting XC work to think for itself a little more.

 

[JFTDWS]

I think I have just fallen in love with Harry Meade that was a lovely video.

Welcome to the club

 

[Millie-Rose]

I had a lesson with Yogi Briesner a few years ago admittedly over show jumps and we spent the whole lesson jumping up to 90cm from walk on a loose rein then at the end we jumped the same course in canter and the difference in my mare was amazing she was so much more connected and thinking for herself. This was a full training day of clinics on a tight time schedule we had 45 mins for the 3 of us and were 3 very different horses and riders. My apprentice on her 13.2 which would charge into fences then slam the breaks on and as a result had lost all her confidence, a young lad on a horse that had been BE advanced he was a tidy but not very effective rider then me competing at BE90 but a bit wobbly about showjumping. He improved all 3 of us and our horses (less so the very experienced horse obviously) in that 45 mins and we all came away buzzing that is a truly brilliant instructor!

 

[fankino04]

If it makes you feel better, many moons ago my pony had a habit of slamming the breaks on at coffin fences, my response was to try to ride MORE aggressively into each one and then I was told by Mr Mark Todd himself that I needed to slow down, so if the master says ride the fences slowly till you get them right and are both more confident then that's obviously the right thing to do. Well done for having the courage to do what you felt was right and looking after your horse.

 

[Marigold4]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and positive comments. I feel much better about it. As one poster said, if you take the instructor out of the equation, it was a good outing and horse learnt a lot.

 

[Flicker]

I had a clinic instructor this weekend during the debrief at the end of the lesson tell me 'your horse is more like a 3yo, he has no muscle, no topline, he has no back end, he isn't straight in the trot, he is unbalanced in the canter and he is underpowered - but if he did trot at full power you wouldn't be able to ride it anyway'.

It's not all untrue, but it was said in a very unneccessary way, and has had quite an impact on my confidence with getting out and about in future. I had also gone into the lesson and said firstly that this was our first outing, he has only been in work since Jan and did nothing for years before that and that we are a work in progress, so I didn't pretend to be something I'm not.. It stung and I could quite happily have gotten off and cried to be honest so I completely understand how you feel. Unfortunately I could tell from his demeanour too that I think he had decided within 2 mins of seeing us that I was a numpty who had gone out and bought a flashy, expensive horse that I can't ride one side of - which as everyone knows, is not even nearly the case as he was cheap, I happened upon him and I am wanting to learn..

Write the name down as an avoid going forwards, be glad you stuck to your guns and the horse had a good time, and take her onwards and upwards.

Big difference between feedback (positive, future-focussed, helpful) and criticism (negative, past-focussed, not helpful).
Feedback: ‘try working more on xyz to build topline. Once you achieve straightness in trot by doing ... his canter will improve too. And my goodness, isn’t his trot enormous, good luck riding that!’
What you got what criticism, and that has had the predictable impact on your confidence, and is actually less likely to result in any meaningful change because there is no information in there about how to fix it.

Your instructor was not a good trainer.

 

[be positive]

Big difference between feedback (positive, future-focussed, helpful) and criticism (negative, past-focussed, not helpful).
Feedback: ‘try working more on xyz to build topline. Once you achieve straightness in trot by doing ... his canter will improve too. And my goodness, isn’t his trot enormous, good luck riding that!’
What you got what criticism, and that has had the predictable impact on your confidence, and is actually less likely to result in any meaningful change because there is no information in there about how to fix it.

Your instructor was not a good trainer.

When I did my training we were taught to always use a positive, if a positive was not possible we had to phrase it with a positive spin, we were not allowed to use 'don't' it had to be 'try not to' or similar, there are times when you have no option such as a potentially dangerous situation that needs the riders immediate reaction but in general it is easy enough to turn negatives around, even if at times there is little to be positive about, the rider should never be made to feel useless or belittled in any way, they are paying for your time and should have your full attention.

The same when looking at someones horse, it may have numerous faults but there will be something nice you can say first, what a lovely colour/ tail/ I like your bridle, then get to the bad bits if appropriate

 

[Ambers Echo]

From a sports psychology point of view the use of 'don't' or 'try not to' is unhelpful as brain registers the key concept of the phrase. Eg 'don't look down' brain 'hears ' look down'. Try not to panic' brain hears 'panic!'. Instead say look at the trees or commit to the fence and ride positively. Its the same with skiing. Don't say 'make sure you avoid hitting those trees'. Say 'focus on the gaps between the trees.

 

[eahotson]

So, correct me if I've got this wrong: you didn't do what the instructor suggested, did your own thing and are surprised that the instructor didn't think you'd done very well? Strange attitude.....

You don't know what an instructor/trainer is going to be like until you have tried them.Some are very unpleasant and,in some cases down right incompetent.The best thing to do IMHO in circumstances like this is to walk.After all you are employing the instructor not the other way round.An instructor came to our yard.Woman (I have no idea who she was as this was a clinic open to outsiders) rode in.Before she had even started the instructor started shouting at her very aggressively because the horses head was not in the correct (to her) position.I would not have tolerated that now. I have learned.

 

[Ambers Echo]

There is a very famous instructor who my own RI went to a few times. People love her but I think she sounds horrible. Her first words to my RI were 'you'll cry by the end of the lesson. Everyone always cries'. I am sure that kind of carry on hides deep insecurity! I never understand why people pay to be humiliated no matter how good the trainer is. Maybe it's some sort of macho thing - I am dedicated and tough enough to cope with the abuse as long as my riding improves. Which is fine but just isn't necessary. No matter how good you get, you can still get better results with positive, constructive coaching I think.

There is another 'name' who my kids had a lesson with. He was just awful to them. Overfacing them, then yelling at them, then eventually telling them they were wasting their own and his time by 'not trying'. Then in front of them offered the 2 other kids in the group a discount for their next lesson because my kids had 'wasted so much time' because their ponies were refusing. Well they were refusing fences at 90+ when we had booked into a 70/80 lesson! And instead of rebuilding confidence after refusals with smaller lines, he just pointed them at bigger and bigger fences till they were in tears and their ponies would not jump anything. It was utterly appalling and I am ashamed I did not intervene. I did complain afterwards but never got a response.

 

[Keith_Beef]

From a sports psychology point of view the use of 'don't' or 'try not to' is unhelpful as brain registers the key concept of the phrase. Eg 'don't look down' brain 'hears ' look down'. Try not to panic' brain hears 'panic!'. Instead say look at the trees or commit to the fence and ride positively. Its the same with skiing. Don't say 'make sure you avoid hitting those trees'. Say 'focus on the gaps between the trees.

Don't mention the war! I did once, but I think I got away with it.

Close your eyes, and don't think of a big white bear.

Yes, it's much better to tell the student concentrate on doing something, rather than on not doing something.

 

[shortstuff99]

I know, it really was disheartening - especially as he was stood at X to teach the client before and after me, but didn't get up from his chair on the side of the arena at B the whole time I was riding, so I know that he came to his conclusion within 2 minutes of me being there. I paid £100 for this privilege too.

I don't mind being told things straight but it did feel a little above and beyond what was necessary to say.

This instructor wasn't a former british team dressage rider with the initials ME was it?

I had a very similar experience where they listed all of the ways I was really terrible and how (due to their failings as a coach, although they won't say that!) They couldn't help me as I was beyond redemption ?.

They were wrong and we are now going great guns! Please don't feel disheartened once you find an instructor that really clicks with you the improvement will be amazing!

 

[MiniMilton]

There's nothing worse than a session with an instructor that leaves you feeling like that. I was having trouble with a very difficult horse. Cold backed. My confidence was in tatters and I booked a lesson specifically for confidence building. She made me get on in a strange arena without lunging first so I got bronced. Instructor basically verbally annihilated me whe I lay in the dirt with people watching. Told me I was ruining a good horse and crushed my confidence about a million times worse. I couldn't believe she was an instructor. She didn't offer to get on the horse to show me how to do it...

 

[MissTyc]

I've had sessions that left me feeling rubbish, and I've learned the hard way to go off and do my own thing if a trainer and I really don't click or I feel they're harming my/horse's confidence.

Your post made me VERY grateful that the new trainer I visited for XC at the weekend was funny, non-judgemental and wasn't put out by my 10yo established 90 mare behaving like she'd never seen a jump before (or a rider, or grass, or the horsebox) ... My mare had a strange hour of total regression, but the trainer listened (and appeared to believe me!). I mean, I book a lesson for an established adult horse (said we hadn't jumped since before lockdown so aiming for rhythm, balance at 80) then turn up on one that only goes sideways and apparently now spooks at everything.

We learn something from every outing. I learned my mare can't be left 3 months without jumping as apparently she forgets everything. You've learned never to waste your money on that trainer again. And maybe extra confidence in fighting your/horse's corner.

 

[oldie48]

There are some really unkind, arrogant and hopeless trainers out there and I have walked my horse out of a session when required, also on one occasion I handed over half the amount of the fee and when questioned I told her I'd only had half of her attention (she was on the phone most of the time just shouting the odd comment at me!) Obviously didn't go back again.
As others have said despite everything you gave your horse a good experience I hope you find a better XC trainer if you lived this way I could recommend a couple and they don't charge an arm and a leg!

 

[tristar]

Thank you and next time definitely going on my own and trusting my judgement. It takes longer to start slowly but you build up valuable confidence in each other, I think

yes this is it!

go at your horses speed, its all about the horse and his development and confidence and yes learning

 

[Dyllymoo]

Honestly I think you had an amazing session and did so well, despite the trainer. As others have said, chalk it up to never having that instructor again.

I had a lesson with someone my instructor used to have and she raved about her. So off we went to our first outing, D was as big as a house and spooky. Indoor school which wasn't fun and the fact she had spun and sodded off up the arena at home the day before hadn't settled my nerves. proceeded to walk around and D was looking so tried to do some leg yielding/ shoulder in etc. Instructor ignored me. Someone else was in the same group and she was being taught right from stepping in the school.

We did some walking and one trot, and D tried to take me down the long side flat out, I asked her to slow with my seat but she didn't listen so I took a small pull on the reins and released. The instructor screamed at me that I should ONLY use my seat and that I was an awful rider and I should learn to ride properly (well I was there for a lesson?!)…. then a small child joined our lesson on a whizzy pony and proceeded to canter around us at high speed to "warm up". This got D very upset and irate as said pony was flying as close as possible to us. I walked into the middle of the school, got off and stood there waiting for the lesson to finish. Instructor didn't even acknowledge me.

Deflated was an understatement but I just never had a lesson with her again!

 

[sport horse]

What one person likes another will not. That is life. I was trained by an absolute arrogant pig of a trainer, (would be struck off today!!) but he was brilliant and because I stuck through the aggro he then became amazingly suportive and helpful. He did not want to teach those that did not try to learn. His privelege. Most people went once and moved on. That was his intention. I too have had one lesson with many coaches and one would be enough - usually because they did not push me enough to achieve anything and I did not leave a lesson itching to go home and try out their ideas. Find someone you like and stick with them for a bit.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

OP, as a teacher yourself you will, I am sure, have recognised that the failings were all the RI's not yours! Would you have treated a pupil in your class in a similar way? No, of course not - just put it behind you, resolve to never have a lesson with this person again and if any-one asks why you are not going to another of their clinics, explain.
If you wanted to be as horrible and unprofessional as the RI you could write a lesson critique (as if you were doing an observation at school) and send it to her - pointing out all her failings (which I am sure you wouldn't do in feedback from an obs). Just writing it without sending it might help you to feel better about the lesson.

 

[ihatework]

What one person likes another will not. That is life. I was trained by an absolute arrogant pig of a trainer, (would be struck off today!!) but he was brilliant and because I stuck through the aggro he then became amazingly suportive and helpful. He did not want to teach those that did not try to learn. His privelege. Most people went once and moved on. That was his intention. I too have had one lesson with many coaches and one would be enough - usually because they did not push me enough to achieve anything and I did not leave a lesson itching to go home and try out their ideas. Find someone you like and stick with them for a bit.

I think that’s the thing isn’t it. Trainers are just people doing a job and like anything in life some will be more proficient at it than others.

People all have different personalities and learning styles so it’s only natural that some students and trainers will be more compatible than others.

It is fairly rare (but is possible) to find a trainer that can really adapt their style and communication to any rider. Although I do fear that sometimes they are just telling the rider what they want to hear because the trainer can see they aren’t ready for the truth, but even that’s okay because a large chunk of riding is about confidence and mindset.

I was thinking about this last night actually. I remembered taking a 4yo I really wasn’t getting on well with and was loosing confidence in, to Ernest Dillon on recommendation of a friend. Well it was a bloody disaster. I hated the lesson, I’m pretty sure Ernest hated teaching me and I left a wobbly mess. But other than not massaging my ego, Ernest did nothing wrong - the problem was in my head. A few years later on a different horse I gave him another go. Completely different experience and I regularly jumped that horse with him for about 2 years and never had a bad lesson.

 

[Annagain]

There was a go to instructor in my area, other people loved him but for some reason I never got on with him. He always said really quite nasty things to me - often in front of others as they were riding club group lessons - that he never said to others. About 10 days after my old boy died I plucked up the courage to take my friend's horse (now my share horse) to a lesson. It probably wasn't a wise move as I was still in bits but I felt I needed to 'get back on the horse'. My old boy had been semi retired for a few years so I hadn't had a lesson for ages and he'd never been particularly complementary about either of us before. He told me my old boy was "just a hot pony" who was never going to amount to anything and now he was gone it was my chance to get something better but I'd have to "finally learn to ride" because "the horses out there aren't all as forgiving as this one". I managed to avoid crying until I got home.

Then I got my boy and he told me "You ride like you've never sat on a horse before" and "He's easy, you make him look hard." I did a dressage test with him and the judge was so appalled, she asked to see me afterwards and offered to help me. At the time (I have no idea why!) I said thanks, but I have lessons with X. The look on her face said it all. After thinking about it for a few days I contacted her, booked a lesson and achieved more in 20 minutes with her than 6 months with the other one.

Despite this, as it was all part of riding club, I carried on doing jumping lessons with the other one. My boy had issues with jumping (we later found he was in pain) but for a while we were doing ok and I said I'd like to try doing the teams. He laughed in my face. After my boy retired from jumping I started to share my friend's horse officially. Despite doing pretty well by my standards (we evented, not very successfully as we were too slow, at 80 and 90 and were nearly always double clear ) I was told I was holding him back and "in the right hands, he'd have gone advanced". Finally, after one lesson, where everything had gone brilliantly and he'd barely said a word to me because he didn't need to, the instructor told me I should let his owner (who had 2 kids under 3 at the time) ride him more as I was going to ruin him. That was the last straw. I asked him what I had done wrong and he didn't answer. I said that rather than just hurl insults at me, it was his job to help me get better. He just stared at his shoes so I told him he was never getting another penny from me and I've never been back since.

Sorry that ended up long - you can see it stuck with me! I can quote the things he said as I remember them word for word.

 

[Snowfilly]

As a kid I had a Connemara mare who was actually mine rather than something Mum brought to sell on. I took her to a PC rally aimed at introducing pole work, told the instructor she’d probably never jumped before and the instructor laid out a line of six poles, one stride apart, and told me to trot them all. The poor mare freaked, and took a leap over the last three; was told to come and do it again and she hit the mare with a lunge whip as we approached. Said it would ‘make her think.’ Needless to say she freaked worse and we hardly got near the poles for the rest of the rally. I was 12 so didn’t do anything aside from cry. Took weeks to get her settled and doing poles but she eventually turned into a decent jumper, working under a local horseman who had 40 years of experience and no qualifications.

Instructor is still coaching PC showjumping teams for the local branch today. Has lots of qualifications.

There are lots of very bad instructors in the world and it sounds like you had a good outing despite the idiot.

 

[ForeverBroke_]

I had a HORRENDOUS lesson with a well known GP rider and the whole session was FOUL. They didn't actually tell me any form of instruction whatever, just spent the whole thing literally going 'oh my god...what ARE you doing!?!?' Literally did not give me one prompt/aid/instruction at all!

I proceeded to ignore them and carry on letting my horse settle / work in and by the end of the session they were all "Well, his value has just gone up at least £10,000.'

Yes, no thanks to you!!

 

[Grassy]

Well done for giving your horse a positive outing! Reading some of these posts makes me cringe, why is it necessary to be so unkind & unprofessional? I had a really difficult pony & had lost a lot of confidence jumping, so went to a “trainer” recommended by a friend, lessons were kind of hit & miss, on a good day he was great, on a bad day not so much. We had one horrific lesson in the jumping paddock, pony kept napping & running off to the corner, he just kept shouting at me to turn her. Eventually he lost his temper & grabbed her bridle & walloped her with a lunge whip, I had a complete panic attack & couldn‘t breathe. He told me that I couldn’t ride, the pony would never jump & why didn’t I give up & send her to Reading Market. It was absolutely awful. I left, shattered & almost gave up. Some time later I randomly booked a lesson with our current coach, what a revelation & never looked back. Now on 2nd pony with him, & been going about 12 years!