Why do all my horses become backwards

[Pink Gorilla]

I’ve had three horses now and all three have become very backwards in the arena. They all had saddle, physio, teeth, etc checked. I’m currently having my current horses tested for pssm to rule that out (I didn’t know about it when I had the previous two). Anyway since I’m the common denominator, I’m wondering what possible things I might be doing as a rider to cause the problem? Gripping without realising maybe??? Apart from my newly broken youngster who was always lazy, the other two started off as very forward horses. I keep their work very varied and only go in the arena a couple of times a week. Sometimes for jumping, sometimes for poles and sometimes for dressage training. All of them have pinned their ears, swished their tails, backed off the leg and often bucked (youngster even spectacularly threw me off) with upward transitions to trot and efforts to keep the trot forwards. Anyone know of things that I could be doing to make my riding offensive?

 

[SOS]

Do you have regular lessons with an instructor on your horses? Have they mentioned anything?

Without seeing you ride it’s hard to know but definitely horses can get sour if they are repeatedly ridden incorrectly - not that I know if you are or not!

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

As above, first person to ask is your instructor.

Are they they same with other riders?

Do you use the same saddle fitter on all 3? Have you checked with a different saddler?

Are they all in the same routine? How much turnout are they getting and how often are they ridden?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Do/did you ride them all in the same arena? Could the surface be the common denominator?

 

[Roxylola]

My first thought was surface too. Are they forward when you hack?

 

[Littlebear]

Maybe post a couple of videos for some insight?

 

[Pink Gorilla]

Hi. Thanks for you replies. I don’t own the previous two anymore. I never really had lessons on my first horse of 21yrs (god knows why), but I did have lessons for several years in a riding school before I got him and then later had more lessons for 5yrs at Uni on their horses during my equine degree. My second horse was a tricky, opinionated youngster who was always at the trainers for further schooling after he was initially broken in and he did display the same backwards behaviour with them, even after lots of long reining and hacking to get him forwards thinking. After a year of persevering and spending thousands on trainers and pain investigations etc, I sold him as he was knocking my confidence and needed someone more experienced. A year ago I bought a 5yr old, forward thinking, previously hunted sweet little horse. But now he’s going backwards too. I do have lessons with him as I want to do dressage, so I now finally have proper dressage lessons to learn how to ride ‘correctly’. But he doesn’t do it when we go to her yard, so she never sees it. I’m wondering if they just get bored of the lifestyle, as I’m not a thrill seeker? Jumps are small and just for variety, cantering on hacks is rare if I’m feeling feisty.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

It does sound as if your horses perhaps pick up your own unwillingness to 'go forwards' but I would still suspect the surface if your current horse is different at your trainer's yard.

 

[sbloom]

I’ve had three horses now and all three have become very backwards in the arena. They all had saddle, physio, teeth, etc checked. I’m currently having my current horses tested for pssm to rule that out (I didn’t know about it when I had the previous two). Anyway since I’m the common denominator, I’m wondering what possible things I might be doing as a rider to cause the problem?

Full biomechanics assessment - someone who can work with you at least monthly, RWYM, Franklin, Equipilates or a combo or two of those. It's not that you WILL need sessions but I think it's much better to work with someone who is'nt flying in for a one-off clinic and you can't see them for a few months if you do need more help. I would highly recommend an off-horse programme as well, and my fave is Rider Reboot, David who runs it brings an incredibly tool kit and works with all sorts of ridden biomechanics trainers to help compound the benefits.

Agree it could be surface but I'd say there's a huge chance you're riding with the handbrake on in some way, subconsciously, and that can even include having too active a seat in an attempt to drive the horse, it's not always about hard hands.

 

[MuddyMonster]

If everything checks out physically, I would be inclined to review their work. How fit are they? I'm wondering if there not very fit combined with a general lack of enthusiasm won't be helping.

My native isn't a fan of being schooled and so is much lazier in our school (but fine when I take him out to clinics etc) so I do 80% at least of my riding out hacking but even that is varied - different routes, different terrain with lots of forward trots, canters and popping logs to get him thinking forwards.

If I didn't do the faster work out hacking I think I'd struggle to get him forwards in the school.

I find having him fitter helps his forward-ness in the school and really varying what school work we do - Arena Trec, polework and jumping features more than a flatwork session but there's plenty of flatwork schooling to be done in between these without the horse realising

If they've been hunting and enjoyed it - schooling could be a little dull without the variety elsewhere

Are you nervous? I found subconscienly I wasn't riding forwards due to previous scares & a course of NLP really helped me let go of what was holding ne back.

I agree with sbloom that sessions with a biomechanic type instructor is worth investigating. I can't believe the difference the monthly sessions make to me and my pony & like I say, we try not to school if we can help it ? I imagine the difference will be huge in a pair that really enjoy dressage

 

[Leandy]

I agree that somehow, somewhere you riding with the handbrake on. Your horses are not finding it a comfortable experience to be schooled by you in an arena. How do you ride differently in the arena? Do you only try to ride them on a proper contact in the arena and not elsewhere? If a horse is correctly and consistently ridden, it should go consistently anywhere you tell it to, whether that is along the road, in a field, in an arena. It sounds as though you are making progress with your dressage instructor. Can you get the instructor to come to your arena, even if only as a one off to see what is happening? I'd expect you may be stiffening up and grabbing hold of the mouth and restricting them in an effort to "get an outline" or you are overriding and pushing them out of balance and rhythm in an attempt to "go forward", or are you suddenly expecting them to be on the aids and obedient in the school when actually you just let them plod along on a long rein outside it ie are you just not consistent enough in how you expect your horses to go for them to develop the muscles and habits of going well. Do you expect something very different in the school from what you accept outside it and the horses are simply confused and then resistant because they are uncomfortable and do not understand what is asked.

The usual answer to "why does my horse?" questions is "because you let him".

 

[Hallo2012]

sounds like you need to let go?

get up the gallops, go on some farm rides, jumps don't need to be big but mix it up-trot down a line of raised poles then pick up canter and do some bounces then back down to trot and repeat etc.

find a hacking partner who encourages you to do a bit more gung ho?

 

[sbloom]

The usual answer to "why does my horse?" questions is "because you let him".

Or "because you don't know the way to facilitate him to do the right/better thing", just a subtle shift in attitude/approach.

 

[oldie48]

Just something to think about but it's relatively easy to put the handbrake on without realising it. Reading your posts I guess you could be a bit like me, ie like to feel the horse is well under control and you're safe. I've found it's easy to just have a contact which is just a little too strong which with some horses can make them curl up and dodge behind the contact and with others it just stops them going forward. Try to give with your hands, sometimes just relaxing the wrists is enough, when you make a transition and see if that makes a difference. I see that you've had lessons at a RS in the past, RS horses don't always have the softest mouths so you may not have got the same reaction from them as with your own horses as they tend to get used to their riders carrying them along with quite a strong contact. Give it a try and see if it helps. Good luck.

 

[FlyingCircus]

Mine are inclined to go abit backwards with me in the school if I'm not ontop of my thinking. Out hacking or somewhere new, I have an aim. Go past the spooky sign, canter to that tree line, jump those puddles, etc, etc...

In the school I'm awfully waffly. By that I mean I'm not focused unless there are poles or jumps or some kind of markers to make me pay attention. I have to be really clear and think "at C, I will ask for canter". I do find it hard though to not get into canter then just sort of go...eh OK off we go.

In doing that, I'm giving the horse no direction. They're wondering wft the idiot up top is thinking about and WHY they should go forward when I'm not even committed to the pace or direction I'm travelling in. It's entirely mindset for me, which I imagine comes through in my riding where I can get abit dithery and lack direction.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Just something to think about but it's relatively easy to put the handbrake on without realising it. Reading your posts I guess you could be a bit like me, ie like to feel the horse is well under control and you're safe. I've found it's easy to just have a contact which is just a little too strong which with some horses can make them curl up and dodge behind the contact and with others it just stops them going forward. Try to give with your hands, sometimes just relaxing the wrists is enough, when you make a transition and see if that makes a difference. I see that you've had lessons at a RS in the past, RS horses don't always have the softest mouths so you may not have got the same reaction from them as with your own horses as they tend to get used to their riders carrying them along with quite a strong contact. Give it a try and see if it helps. Good luck.

I can relate to this as well and when I really struggled with anxiety if my heart wasn't in it one of my horses just doesn't move, he really can read my moods and it just doesn't happen so I pick days when I feel really positive and school then, my horse also has a very soft mouth but can be sharp and spook and he can just curl up if I hang on so sometimes there can be a lot to go wrong.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Mine are inclined to go abit backwards with me in the school if I'm not ontop of my thinking. Out hacking or somewhere new, I have an aim. Go past the spooky sign, canter to that tree line, jump those puddles, etc, etc...

In the school I'm awfully waffly. By that I mean I'm not focused unless there are poles or jumps or some kind of markers to make me pay attention. I have to be really clear and think "at C, I will ask for canter". I do find it hard though to not get into canter then just sort of go...eh OK off we go.

In doing that, I'm giving the horse no direction. They're wondering wft the idiot up top is thinking about and WHY they should go forward when I'm not even committed to the pace or direction I'm travelling in. It's entirely mindset for me, which I imagine comes through in my riding where I can get abit dithery and lack direction.

I used to get a bit like this so I used to practice prelim dressage tests it gives you a focus and something to aim for.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Hi. Thanks for you replies. I don’t own the previous two anymore. I never really had lessons on my first horse of 21yrs (god knows why), but I did have lessons for several years in a riding school before I got him and then later had more lessons for 5yrs at Uni on their horses during my equine degree. My second horse was a tricky, opinionated youngster who was always at the trainers for further schooling after he was initially broken in and he did display the same backwards behaviour with them, even after lots of long reining and hacking to get him forwards thinking. After a year of persevering and spending thousands on trainers and pain investigations etc, I sold him as he was knocking my confidence and needed someone more experienced. A year ago I bought a 5yr old, forward thinking, previously hunted sweet little horse. But now he’s going backwards too. I do have lessons with him as I want to do dressage, so I now finally have proper dressage lessons to learn how to ride ‘correctly’. But he doesn’t do it when we go to her yard, so she never sees it. I’m wondering if they just get bored of the lifestyle, as I’m not a thrill seeker? Jumps are small and just for variety, cantering on hacks is rare if I’m feeling feisty.

It's probably not boredom for them but I find I ride so much better if someone is teaching me or watching me or even having other people in the school, sometimes when your on your own you sort of just dither and loose a sense of purpose, maybe get your instructor to come to you next time and see if it makes a difference.

 

[Northern]

sounds like you need to let go?

get up the gallops, go on some farm rides, jumps don't need to be big but mix it up-trot down a line of raised poles then pick up canter and do some bounces then back down to trot and repeat etc.

find a hacking partner who encourages you to do a bit more gung ho?

This in spades. I have a young WB (4), who is typically sticky as young WBs often are. I barely ever ride her in a school (we have a horrific surface - like concrete, not a surface conducive to learning how to carry a rider!), we ride out in a big paddock and often go for forward canters up the hill. Has improved her forward button no end, much better than boring work in a school.

Can you find someone on a forward thinking horse to ride with?

 

[Marigold4]

Could it be your hands? Are you asking too strongly for an outline in the school because you are schooling? So your horses feel blocked by your hands and irritated (tail swishing) by this? My young horse is very sensitive and I'm trying my hardest to change my riding to a lighter steadier contact. Definitely a work in progress for me so not saying I have all the answers but a lighter contact might help.

 

[Jango]

It could be any number of things, I would speak honestly to your instructor and ask what she thinks it is. Could be; the surface (including a physical issue e.g. hind suspensory issues made worse by deep surface), you blocking with your hands or thighs, saddle fit, you being too big/heavy, you not being strict with 'go means go' when you're on your own. I'm a huge fan of long reining, I would do some long reining sessions in the arena, working on transitions and reactions. Get some lessons if you don't know how to do this. Do this for a few weeks, if it's improving without you on board you know the problem is something to do with you/saddle, if it isn't then I'd say it's more likely to be your horse and you can go down the vet route. Good luck!

 

[Errin Paddywack]

This reminds me of friends of mine, husband and wife who had agility dogs. Whenever they had a new dog it would be one each from the same litter. Hers would always end up needing more oomph whereas his were usually mad as hatters. In their case it was that she was very strict with her dogs and didn't praise them enough and play with them so they shut down. He wasn't strict enough and let his get away with murder. She never did understand why she got the 'slow' ones. I am not saying that this is what is happening here but something clearly is. I hope you get to the bottom of it and it is easily resolved.

 

[Smoky 2022]

Is your horses bored with the work could you try something different to see if they improve.

 

[Leandy]

This reminds me of friends of mine, husband and wife who had agility dogs. Whenever they had a new dog it would be one each from the same litter. Hers would always end up needing more oomph whereas his were usually mad as hatters. In their case it was that she was very strict with her dogs and didn't praise them enough and play with them so they shut down. He wasn't strict enough and let his get away with murder. She never did understand why she got the 'slow' ones. I am not saying that this is what is happening here but something clearly is. I hope you get to the bottom of it and it is easily resolved.

Yes. Horses are a great mirror for the rider. They tend to do roughly what we are telling them to do. Whether we know that that is what we are telling them or not. Good luck with unpicking it OP.

 

[j1ffy]

Firstly OP, I think it's great that you're looking at yourself and trying to improve! FWIW it doesn't sound like you're doing enough arena work to have made them stale, it's more likely to be an aspect of your riding or thinking that's causing it.

There are many really good suggestions on this post. One build I would add is to think of your own mindset (and I think this underpins some of the other suggestions) - do you go into the arena and think "right, this is serious stuff now" and therefore tend to subconsciously shut the horse down? Building on Hallo's suggestion about adding the fun back in - which I think is an excellent idea - I'd focus on making arena work more playful. Go for a blast around the outside, do some silly handy pony type work. If you're focusing on completing a fun task instead of the horse's way of going you may find they respond quite differently.

I went on the 'Rider Confidence Course' at the Centre of Horseback Combat (Zana and Karl Greenwood) recently and it was really helpful in terms of mindset and also how they go about training horses. I'm not nervous but wanted some more tools for my confidence toolkit as I have a youngster who can be challenging. It's not cheap but it was fun as well as educational so it might be something to look at.

 

[dominobrown]

Maybe try a freelance rider a couple of times to ride the horse in your school? Would give it a couple of goes and if horse drastically improves it’s you, if not it’s something else!

 

[AUB]

Without having seen you ride my best guess is that you’re giving confusing signals - saying go with your legs but stop with your hands. And probably not taking your legs off when the horse has responded to your forward aid. So basically your stop signal overshadows the go signal and the go signal is dulled when applied all the time without meaning anything.

How to fix? Hands off when asking for go. And legs off when you get what you’ve asked for.

 

[spotty_pony]

It’s hard to say without seeing but it does sound as though you make be ‘riding with the handbrake on’ as others have said. Whether this could be through apprehension after the horse throwing you off and the bad experiences you have had. It’s easily done though - when they feel like they are going to throw the towel in it’s natural instinct to grab hold of the front end when the correct thing to do of anything is push your hands forwards and ride forward. Every time I feel my horses get a little behind the bridle and a feeling a little ‘stuck’ I give the rein forward and ride forwards and then take the rein back up once we have the momentum. Constantly thinking about riding from the leg and forwards to the contact. The Friesian I ride is prone to to this and the wrong amount of rein can send him thinking backwards (or upwards!)