Why do dressage riders lean back?

[Orangehorse]

This is a genuine query. I have noticed in the past few weeks that several dressage riders seem to be leaning back.

Is this just an unfortunate photograph, or is there a reason for it?

I thought that riders should remain upright, in the ear, shoulder, hip, ankle position when doing dressage.

 

[Shilasdair]

I was going to reply to you, then I thought - 'this is that rude person who asks questions, then doesn't acknowledge answers'.
So find your own reasons.
S

 

[CastleMouse]

Like this?

(Excuse cr*p quality)

 

[Apalacia01]

Ever friendly there shils!

And why do sj'ers lean forward!? Who sits up straight!?

 

[Orangehorse]

Am I rude? I'm sorry if you think so, I do usually acknowledge answers.

 

[Super_Kat]

[ QUOTE ]
I was going to reply to you, then I thought - 'this is that rude person who asks questions, then doesn't acknowledge answers'.
So find your own reasons.
S

[/ QUOTE ]

*Snigger*

 

[moodymare1987]

Lol caroline was you jumping a huge ditch their chick

 

[CastleMouse]

[ QUOTE ]
I was going to reply to you, then I thought - 'this is that rude person who asks questions, then doesn't acknowledge answers'.
So find your own reasons.
S

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[MistletoeMegan]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a genuine query. I have noticed in the past few weeks that several dressage riders seem to be leaning back.

Is this just an unfortunate photograph, or is there a reason for it?

I thought that riders should remain upright, in the ear, shoulder, hip, ankle position when doing dressage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any combination of too tense/can't sit the movement/they've seen their idol doing it and think they have to do the same

With certain individuals it's a vain attempt to get their heads back up their arses, but you didn't hear me say that

 

[Bossanova]

Because they ride horses that are too big and powerful for them and which have been trained not to the art of subtle aids but to those which involve pulling, pushing and bouncing to create results....

Sometimes rolling back onto your seat bones is alright, if its briefly and to help the rider sit deeper down.

 

[Sunny_Star]

Maybe they can ride more with their seat by leaning back, and get deeper into the saddle?
I'm no dressage expert though.

 

[zigzag]

[ QUOTE ]
I was going to reply to you, then I thought - 'this is that rude person who asks questions, then doesn't acknowledge answers'.
So find your own reasons.
S

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[Shilasdair]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I rude? I'm sorry if you think so, I do usually acknowledge answers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I'm just unlucky then.

Apology accepted

I was going to suggest you read the book 'Tug Of War: Classical Versus Modern Dressage' by German veterinarian Gerd Heuschmann. It discusses methods of training dressage horses, including the hotly debated Rollkur, and explains rider errors such as leaning back etc. I'm only halfway through it, but it's a fascinating read.
S

 

[Damnation]

[ QUOTE ]
I was going to reply to you, then I thought - 'this is that rude person who asks questions, then doesn't acknowledge answers'.
So find your own reasons.
S

[/ QUOTE ]

Ooooh Dear

 

[marieE]

leaning back will increase pressure on the seat bones driving the riders arse into the horses back and usually lead to hollowness and running onto forhand. to move the horse forward with the seat requires no more thn subtle movement of the hips and at most lower back as far as im aware, and thts all i do to prepare for medium, extended steps. leaning back will also indicate the rider is out of balance and unable to absorb movement.

 

[Orangehorse]

"Rolling back onto the seat bones to sit deeper" seems to be the answer then. It doesn't look very attractive.

Re Tug of War - I have heard of this book, although not seen a copy, it sounds interesting.

 

[MistletoeMegan]

You can pick Tug of War up fairly cheaply from Amazon (UK not US, think the US copy is slightly different)

 

[Shilasdair]

[ QUOTE ]
"Rolling back onto the seat bones to sit deeper" seems to be the answer then. It doesn't look very attractive.

Re Tug of War - I have heard of this book, although not seen a copy, it sounds interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the BHS were talking of adding it to recommended reading for some of the exams (can't remember which).
I'm a bit cynical about books, but it's one of those where everything makes sense, and slots into place.
S

 

[Bossanova]

[ QUOTE ]
"Rolling back onto the seat bones to sit deeper" seems to be the answer then. It doesn't look very attractive.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, rolling back onto your seat bones ISNT bad if it's to correct the rider's seat.
Leaning back, therefore putting too much weight on the back of the saddle, pushing your legs forward and being reliant on your hands for balance IS bad.

 

[Orangehorse]

Better go off and visit Amazon then. Thank you and goodnight.

 

[Shilasdair]

S

 

[gigs]

if I lean back on my boy he buggers off with me -not a great dressage movement !!!

 

[CastleMouse]

[ QUOTE ]
Lol caroline was you jumping a huge ditch their chick

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, it was because the arena was an absolute mudbath and he attempted to bugger off on me

Still managed to get a 6 for my canter there though

 

[Seahorse]

I do lean back exercises when I have lessons with my CD instructor, it helps the horse engage its back especially if you do a lot of lean back and then gradually and slowly sit upright again, you can literally feel the horses back come up with you, it's an amazing feeling!

However I don't do lean back all the time, in fact we do light seat as well in the same session anything to get the horse to lift his back and engage behind, lighten the forehand etc.
I wouldn't do lean back while riding a test, for me it's a schooling exercise.

 

[kerilli]

but seahorse, i can't see how that would work, sorry! surely it puts you out of balance, means you have to rely on your hands (i.e. the reins) at least a little.
i hate to see people leaning back, it looks inelegant at best, unbalanced and too strong in the hand at worst.
pefectly upright in what Herbermann calls the "zero position" is what we should all be striving for, surely?

 

[Seahorse]

Yes but when I lean back, I give with my hands at the same time, although it is bloody hard!
Its hard to describe but it works.
We only do lean back for 1/2 a circle or so too. but it's the sitting back up again that really get's their backs up. And it also strenthens the riders core muscles.

 

[Baydale]

[ QUOTE ]
And it also strenthens the riders core muscles.


[/ QUOTE ]

What, like sit-ups?

 

[dressager]

That picture makes me cringe! My trainer has always been anti-leaning back. I think there's a fine line between sitting up really straight and using your hips and seat to drive the horse forwards, and sitting behind the vertical in an attempt to drive - people seem to do this a lot in medium/extended trot.

 

[Tierra]

Its seen a lot in extensions when riders seem to have to do everything in their power to ask for the lengthening of stride.

Of course, you could ask WHY the horse has been trained in such a way that the only way to get an extension is to jam your legs forward and grind with your seat (which, incidently, will serve to make the horse hollow away from you and not surprisingly). Its frequently accompanied with a couple of jabs of the hands to ensure the head doesnt go anywhere

Hate to see it and its not productive to much in my mind

 

[silversox]

If you look at some of the pictures in the Dressage section of H&H of top riders, most of them look as though they are leaning back. I find it looks quite gross. Their spine must be shaped to a letter 'S', permanently.