Why do even experienced people confuse Welsh Cobs with normal Cobs ??

A 'cob' is a type, like shp,hunter,hack and therefore it can be of any breeding as long as it has the atributes of its type. The confusion comes further as there are sub types in showing, show cob, working cob, gypsy cob.
The Welsh breed are ponies of cob type.
http://wpcs.uk.com/breed_information/section_c_d/ So their breeding is Welsh but they have been selectively bred to have the general physical atributes of a cob.
I think a lot of the problem is depending on what horses you have seen or worked with is your idea of a cob will differ hugely from someone elses. Show cobs are nothing like gipsy/native cobs usually but lots are now being bred with the show ring in mind. My potential show cob is a partbred Connemara X traditional, but it could end up as a show hunter if it does not chunk up.
 
What an interesting debate, though I do agree with people here saying that cob is a type not a breed. (:
I have a Section D, definitely a cob. I was told he was born semi-feral, and all his grandparents were show cobs, many of which have won the Royal Welsh Show. (Yes, I'm Welsh!)
I do hear a lot about Section D's being crazy and stuff, but Danny, who only got broken in a year or two ago by his past owners, and is my first pony, is extremely calm for his age! Though he does get a bit excited when riding out in company, that isn't his fault at all. It's mine for not riding him out with other's enough, he is a dream to hack out alone though. I ride him bitless now, and I wouldn't be able to tell a difference in him, if anything he is happier and a lot more responsive!
I have also seen Section D's being used as riding school horses, and the only faults in the one is that she spooked a lot and she bitten a lot, though again, was not her fault.
But yeah, cobs are awesome! I don't care if someone comes along and declares Section D's as not cobs, I'm still calling mine a cobalob! <3
 
I think they are cobs but I just call them Section Ds as I don't really like the term 'cob', it makes me think of 'common, nonspecific chunky horse' (and usually makes me think of mega hairy and coloured but I have seen plenty of lovely other cobs), I am thinking of going to look at a 16.1 section D, am I right in thinking from previous comments you're supposed to call it a pony??
 
I have to confess that I fell into that sort of mistake, inspite of having been round horses all my life.

I'd always ridden TB/hunter types, but some years ago, when my old TB mare died, I decided that, because of my increasing weight and age, I would go for something a bit more solid - not a plod pudding, but an old-fashioned workaday cob.

My cousin in law, who years ago produced some magnificent Welsh cobs, said in passing. "Whatever you do, don't get a Welsh cob mare. the geldings are fantastic but the mares can be barmy!"

The dealer over the hill, with whom i'm good friends, had an Irish cob mare for sale (e.g. it had come from Ireland). The passport showed no bloodline. I'd had an Irish 'old-fashioned' cob (bright bay, black points really smart) in the past and loved him. So I tried this mare, liked her - though she was a bit more forward-going than I had wanted -bought her, and she is still with me.

But senility must have already been setting in. Why did the fact that she too is bright bay with black points lull me into thinking she was a product of the Emerald Isl?. WHY didn't I wonder why she was called Megan, for example? Too late, charging round the countryside on this rocket-propelled, spooky, highly-strung half-ton catapult, It dawned on me that what I probably had was a wolf in sheep's clothing - a full blown 15.3 Welsh lady!

But going back to the original point of the post, it's true that there is a lot of confusion about cobs, and also what a lot of people call 'coloureds' or coloured cobs, and which in my day were known as vanners (i.e. they were mainly used for pulling gypsy caravans). they are IMO light years away from Welsh, Irish or 'old-fashioneds'.

Meanwhile, I shall doubtless end my riding career still over-horsed, but totally devoted to my mad Welsh girl!
 
If you purposely bred a non-welsh line of "hot" cobs they would still be cobs even if they were fire-breathing ones because cob refers to the physical stamp of horse - namely shape/average size/body proportions etc.

My welsh cob is highly strung but that doesn't change the length of his legs in proportion to his body!
 
Honey is a welsh d, I don't think she's a cob personally as if you took away the feather her legs are no chunkier than any other pony!*
She's not particularly stocky but she's not a tiny fine thing either ..

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But I know welshies that are chunkier and I would call them cobs, but I don't think they can all go into the "cob" box*
I'm sticking with "cob type pony"*for hon :)*
 
A cob is a type, not a breed. A Welsh Cob is a breed. Cob means a smallish chunky type, good bone, big bum, short neck and muscular, versatile and cheap to keep. They are the equivalent to a small tractor rather than a huge John Deere ("shire").
 
Perhaps it would be easier if we forgot about cobs and talked about other TYPES. Cobs are afterall a type of horse, rather than a breed. A hack or a hunter is another TYPE of horse.

Many hacks are TB, TBx or PBA, this doesn't mean that hacks have to have any specific breeding, neither does it mean that another breed can't be a hack. Further it doesn't mean that all TBs are hacks.....

Same with Hunters, many hunter types (as opposed to horses that actually hunt) are ID or IDx or CB but that isn't essential and other breeds or horses of unknown breeding can also be hunter types i.e. a large solid workmanlike horse capable of carrying someone for a days hunting etc.

To further complicate matters some breeds have enough variety to fall into different types! Many top show hunters are ID but some pure IDs show as cobs.

Welsh cobs are the section of the welsh pony breed that also happens to be a cob type. Just like the section B also happens to be a show pony type. So welsh cobs are cobs, they may be LW cobs but they are cobs, that is what they were developed to be, a multi-purpose animal that can be used for light agricultural work, pack work, hunting, transport and pleasure riding or driving. They still fullfil that criteria, albeit they look a bit different to the ideal for a "show cob" or for a "traditional cob" in the show ring.

So much of this angst would be saved if people avoided using the words "fat" or "ploddy" in respect of cobs and accepted that it is an unfair and sweeping generalisation. There is no reason why owners of welsh Ds should be worried or offended by being classified as cobs.
 
i have a traditional that takes people by surprise because he is far from ploddy and in no stretch of the imagination could he be suitable for a beginner rider. for a heavyweight he is incredibly light footed and quick off the mark. never underestimate traditional cobs - as the book says "Cobs Can" .
 
blimey this is such an old thread!!!

A lot of you are not quite getting what I mean't and no doubt due to my lack of persuasive English still won't

please bear in mind I do know a lot of people do know the difference just as a lot of 'cobs' whether Welsh or not don't fit the mold

I mean people who say 'oh your new to horses or need something a little safer/quieter etc buy a cob', then proceed to show them photos of WC's

yes they are all 'cobs' but even a lot of experienced people don't realise the difference
 
No youre right, Im still not getting it.

A cob is a cob. Its a type, not a measure of how fast it goes or how easy it is to ride. The temperament and rideability of cobs is variable, as is the temperament and rideability of anything else :)
 
Capriole said:
No youre right, Im still not getting it.

A cob is a cob. Its a type, not a measure of how fast it goes or how easy it is to ride. The temperament and rideability of cobs is variable, as is the temperament and rideability of anything else :)
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ok I kinda see what you mean, however we all know that WC's are often bred totally different to your average cob. Therefore the chances of getting a quiet one are a lot lower
 
Capriole said:
No youre right, Im still not getting it.

A cob is a cob. Its a type, not a measure of how fast it goes or how easy it is to ride. The temperament and rideability of cobs is variable, as is the temperament and rideability of anything else :)
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well put, i think there's some 'cob snobbery' going on:eek:certain factions thinking that WC's are superior to 'ordinary' cobs and so therefore cannot be 'cobs'!!
i think experienced people are well aware that a cob is a type and perhaps show pics of WC's as an example of a nice cob rather than a suggestion someone should go and buy that exact one;)
i've never ridden a ploddy cob, i've ridden plenty of rocket fuelled ones tho and they were all 'ordinary':p
 
Ibblebibble said:
well put, i think there's some 'cob snobbery' going on:eek:certain factions thinking that WC's are superior to 'ordinary' cobs and so therefore cannot be 'cobs'!!
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lol, yes i think you are right:p:D Im probably as guilty as anyone too:o I agree 'cob' is a type and Sec D's along with other natives like Fells, Dales, Highlands are of 'cob type'. However, they are also a breed that in addition to being of cob type, meet their breed standard as defined by the individual societies. I dont think that makes them superior, but its what differentiates them from traditionals and vice versa. Im sure the only reason the WPCS call them Welsh Cobs is because,unlike the other natives, they have 4 types of Welsh and yes the C/D are the ones of cob type. If there was a smaller, finer built Highland, would it be the Highland Pony and its bigger counterpart, the Highland Cob? Someone recently saw my girl and asked if she was a cob - I replied, yes.. she is a Welsh Sec D. Im not denying she is of cob type BUT Im proud of her breeding so would always quantify and tell people:p
 
soph21 said:
This is my common cob :p
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I have had loads of Welsh breeders ask how he's bred :p ;)
He's by a tbx hanovarian and out of a traditional cob!!

In defence for welsh cobs & C's, I know loads of them and they are all lovely, they give you the same sort of ride as my common cob! Fast and fun or slow and chilled.
My cob Bear is wicked! I didnt ride him for months, tacked him up, jumped on and went for a little hack, he didn't bat an eye lid!
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Nowt common about that ;).

P
 
Ah ah!!!!
I think I understand... why I don't understand anything about the real meaning of the word "cob"! :p
If even english people can't agree about that, it's hopeless for me! :D

I'm only sure of one thing... I have a cob too!

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A "Cob normand".
That's a breed of heavy horse. The lighter of the french heavy horse.
 
NeverSayNever said:
Sec D's along with other natives like Fells, Dales, Highlands are of 'cob type'.
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Not sure highlands have enough bone to be considered cobs - mine certainly don't. An over-height highland with proportionally more bone might be more accurately considered a highland cob - and would more closely resemble a welsh cob too :D
 
JFTD said:
Not sure highlands have enough bone to be considered cobs - mine certainly don't. An over-height highland with proportionally more bone might be more accurately considered a highland cob - and would more closely resemble a welsh cob too :D
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really? that surprises me, i dont know much about the various standards in all fairness but the highlands ive have had all had a similar bone to my sec d, which admittedly isnt huge and not as much as the lw traditional i used to have though.
 
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Enfys said:
Definition of cob according to the 'Free Dictionary':

1. A corncob: corn on the cob.
2. A male swan.
3. A thickset, stocky, short-legged horse.
4. A small lump or mass, as of coal.
5. A mixture of clay and straw used as a building material.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Probably from obsolete cob, round object, head, testicle.] :D
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Danny is most definitely number 5!

He's so cute- proper Thelwell stamp with a big busy mane, big bushy tail and round belly! Very argumentative and completely independant. My ideal man!

My instructor always said that if you could learn ride a welsh cob properly, you could get an 18.2hh hannovarian to do anything!!
 
If I understand your definitions of "cob", they are supposed to be something between the pony and the horse, is that right?

(so I have no clue why our "cob normands" are called that way, it only seems to be meant to be even more confusing :D )
 
Erzie said:
If I understand your definitions of "cob", they are supposed to be something between the pony and the horse, is that right?

(so I have no clue why our "cob normands" are called that way, it only seems to be meant to be even more confusing :D )
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Not necessarily - cobs generically are any type of weight carrying horse with 8.5+ inches of bone, with characteristically short legs, deep barrel etc. Show cobs are under 15,3(?) but over 14,2. Maxi cobs are over 15,3 up to any height. Traditional cobs are any height and very hairy. Welsh cobs are generally lighter than traditionals and more sporty, normally small horse height.

It covers a lot of types - including your cob normands :)
 
My instructor always said that if you could learn ride a welsh cob properly, you could get an 18.2hh hannovarian to do anything!![/QUOTE]

I love that :D Now I feel better for "sticking with" my welsh d through our first few months:rolleyes:
I couldn't resist replying to this thread as I can see both sides HOWEVER I owned a beautful "irish" show cob type for 10 years, very common but huge heart which shone through - even made it to hoys:eek: who is still with me but now retired.
Her replacement is a welsh d, let's put it this way, it has taken me 5months to "adjust to the native mind"!!! IT has been quite a learning curve, fun but steep!
My cob cob, if I was having a bad day, would take things down a gear in consideration, however, my welshy sees this as "an opportunity" ;)
So , they are a breed of their own really, cheeky, fun, bags of character - don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there aren't cob cobs with all that too, I can only say from personal experience, it was almost like having to learn to ride again;)
 
damn you JFTD, I've just been out in the rain with a tape measure and I blame you:p

My girl has bang on 8inches of bone, so not quite enough for LW cob but pretty close. She's pretty long legged though too.

Id be interested to hear how much bone the other natives have now lol, got me thinking on this rainy afternoon:D
 
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NeverSayNever said:
damn you JFTD, I've just been out in the rain with a tape measure and I blame you:p

My girl has bang on 8inches of bone, so not quite enough for LW cob but pretty close. She's pretty long legged though too.

Id be interested to hear how much bone the other natives have now lol, got me thinking on this rainy afternoon:D
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Sorry :p I will measure mine tonight too. I reckon mine are no more than 8" too (not that Daemon's count as he's still growing). At least it makes boot buying super easy :D
 
Erzie, "cob size" is a measurement for tack and equipment, it is inbetween "pony size" and "full size". Just to add to the confusion, "cob size" tack and equipment does not fit cobs, it fits ponies approx 13hh to 14.2hh and occasionally small horses with delicate heads. Cobs will often require "full size" or "extra full size".

Welsh Cob is a breed, also known as Welsh Section D.

Other cobs are a "type" and can be any breed or mix of breeds, as long as they meet the physical requirements for being a cob.

Again, to make things more confusing, if a horse is described as "cobby" or "cob-type", this means it is of a heavier build but not heavy enough in build to be considered a cob.

I think Welsh Cobs often fit the description "cobby" or "cob-type" perfectly, in terms of their physical appearance. But because of the breeding, a Welsh Cob is often called a cob.

For those animals that ARE cobs (but not Welsh Cobs): If you take a "traditional cob" and clip the feathers, hog the mane and pull the tail, it becomes a "show cob". This does not mean it will be any good at shows, its just a description.

TBH I'm not surprised people get confused with it all!
 
Ok well here's one for ya'll. Buddy is a welsh cob X gypsy cob!!!! 9inches of bone or there abouts inc. feathers....

So is a welsh cob x or am I allowed to say cob? :p:rolleyes:

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