Why do horses have rugs on when owners are in t-shirts?

Moomin1 said:
Fair enough. What do you mean they are washed?

Sounds like you are somewhere very cold and exposed.
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Sounds like you must be in a different country! There was a tiny bit of ice on my windscreen yesterday am but rug was still whipped off part clipped pony as forecast said it was warming up at 9am onwards. I'm loving these sunny, warm days apart from pony got so sweaty on long, fast ride at lunchtime that I'm thinking that she needs clipping again this week :(
 
Moomin1 said:
Fair enough. What do you mean they are washed?

Sounds like you are somewhere very cold and exposed.
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I mean we keep them very clean by bathing regularity to aid them in their sweating because ATM they are working and not clipped so to keep them comfy in these warm days and cold nights they are kept very clean .
The lanolin on a dirty horse ( I don't mean as dirty as in badly cared for ) will help insulate the horse , great for living out not so good for hard work.
 
Pingu42 said:
Haha! Love it! I think this sums it up! If an owner feels cold then they think their horse must feel cold too! Thank you all those normal, sensible people that agree that horses should not be wearing rugs when it is 17 degrees, warm and sunny! There were times during this thread when I thought that maybe it was me who was wrong as so many people disagreed with me!
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I still don't think there is a right or wrong, and my point was I don't think you are in a position to criticise/judge unless you are aware of all circumstances.

I have explained my own situation - it is more important (according to my vet) to keep my horse warm and DRY - and last week despite the fact that the it was sometimes sunny, it was also sometimes very wet. As I cannot be with my horse 24/7, as much as I'd like to, on the days that I cant get to the yard more than once a day I made the decision to keep a rainsheet on her.

She is on grass livery, which means she is fed and checked in the field twice daily by YO. However YO has made a decision not to change rugs and as much as some days it'd be nice if she did, I can understand her decision. Not just because of the time it takes to bring in a dozen or so horses from 4 different fields, change rugs and turn out again - but also because this thread demonstrates you are not going to please every owner with rug choice!

There must be very few people that are able to keep their horses in perfect conditions but we all make decisions and compromises according to circumstances. And, as I say, I don't think you or anyone else is in a position to judge on someone else's reasoning and decisions, especially when you don't know the circumstances.
 
As far as I'm concerned it all depends on the horse. One of mine is rugged atm, six aren't. I went to take the rug off yesterday afternoon (I was wearing a t-shirt) and the horse made it plain the rug was staying on. ANd that's fine with me.
 
I think that if a horse is on livery, and its welfare is compromised by being in a rug in hot weather, that yard owners are morally obliged to take rugs off. And that is from the perspective of a yard owner. I couldn't personally live with myself if I had rugged horses sweltering in my fields. I don't bring in, take rugs off, and turn out again. I walk into the field, take the rug off, hang it over the fence, then walk out again. Takes 5 minutes for me to de-rug 6 horses.
 
My horse is on DIY and I do see her twice a day, however when I see her in the morning its 5:30/6am so its still really cold. Then by the time I finish work its 6pm so again she need to keep her rug on as its cold.
Sometimes its just not realistic to take rugs off at that time in the morning as my mare really feels the cold, so much so that she has to have a 200g on at night just now.
 
two things are allways sure to happen when we feel the very first nip in the air.
One is that rugs are put on horses.
two is a thread on here about over rugging.
 
XxCoriexX said:
My horse is on DIY and I do see her twice a day, however when I see her in the morning its 5:30/6am so its still really cold. Then by the time I finish work its 6pm so again she need to keep her rug on as its cold.
Sometimes its just not realistic to take rugs off at that time in the morning as my mare really feels the cold, so much so that she has to have a 200g on at night just now.
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The way I view it is, that if someone hasn't got the means to get to their horse/make arrangements for someone else to, in order to change the rug if temperatures vary that massively between those times, then they shouldn't have a horse which requires rugging to such an extent.

I must just be lucky with the horses I've had, they don't tend to drop weight, wither up and die or melt if they happen to get a bit cold for an hour or two. I would rather my horse on the cold side than sweating buckets in the midday heat in a rug which was put on in much lower temperatures.

Someone turned my horse out for me last winter and decided without even consulting me, or telling me afterwards, that they decided it felt cold to them, and because my horse was fully clipped, they felt it necessary to put a 200g stable rug on underneath her HW turnout. By the time I got there she was so distressed that she was almost climbing out of the field, drenched in foam and sweat. I'm quite sure it was ok first thing in the morning, but by the time it reached midday, that level of rugging became a welfare issue.
 
You're assuming that Corie's horse will be too hot/sweating buckets at lunch time?

Usually I prefer F on the cold side too, mostly because his skin erupts if he gets too hot :p.

However as he is clipped I don't think he is going to be sweating buckets in a lightweight rug any time soon (the sort that he'd wear in the rain in the actual summer) and I'm quite happy to leave him to go to the job that I have to keep him.
 
You know all this thread has shown really is that some people are judgemental, condescending and. Pretty much just out to try and assert their superiority over others by saying they aren't good owners or shouldn't have horses if they cannot leave their jobs to go see their horses in the middle of the day should the temps change.

Ridiculous I read the same tosh from the same folk on here annually. They need to get their heads out of their gold encrusted butts and get real. People work long hours, some work unsociable hours and they shouldnt be made to feel like bad owners when they can only get up twice a day at specified times.

I for one won't be made to feel bad because I only see my horse very early and very late, not by some disembodied keyboard warrior anyway.
 
ester said:
You're assuming that Corie's horse will be too hot/sweating buckets at lunch time?

Usually I prefer F on the cold side too, mostly because his skin erupts if he gets too hot :p.

However as he is clipped I don't think he is going to be sweating buckets in a lightweight rug any time soon (the sort that he'd wear in the rain in the actual summer) and I'm quite happy to leave him to go to the job that I have to keep him.
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No I'm not assuming her horse will be. I said mine was. What I'm saying is that if the temperatures alter drastically through the day, then yes, it's an issue if those horses are stood in the same rugs throughout those temp changes. And if arrangements can't be made for the rug to be changed/taken off/put back on or whatever to make the horse comfortable, then it's an issue. Not sure how that is hard to grasp?

If the temp doesn't alter much during the day, then it's clearly not an issue.
 
Black Beastie said:
You know all this thread has shown really is that some people are judgemental, condescending and. Pretty much just out to try and assert their superiority over others by saying they aren't good owners or shouldn't have horses if they cannot leave their jobs to go see their horses in the middle of the day should the temps change.

Ridiculous I read the same tosh from the same folk on here annually. They need to get their heads out of their gold encrusted butts and get real. People work long hours, some work unsociable hours and they shouldnt be made to feel like bad owners when they can only get up twice a day at specified times.

I for one won't be made to feel bad because I only see my horse very early and very late, not by some disembodied keyboard warrior anyway.
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I work long hours. I also have a baby. And a horse on DIY. Yet I manage to ensure she is seen to twice daily. Either by me, or someone else who I trust, who will sort her rug out if need be.
 
But the whole point is that right now temperatures do alter quite a bit during the day well by 10C ish anyway.

BB's point was that she does see her horses twice daily....
 
ester said:
But the whole point is that right now temperatures do alter quite a bit during the day well by 10C ish anyway.

BB's point was that she does see her horses twice daily....
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Yes exactly. So for those who aren't able/haven't made arrangements to be able to change/take off the rug once the temps have risen by that 10degrees etc, then do they think it's acceptable to just leave the horse over heating? Personally I don't. For me, I would rather leave the horse cold for a couple of hours in the morning, before temps rise, than have a horse overheating for the rest of the day, if I am not able to get up to change the rug during the day.
 
Moomin1 said:
Yes exactly. So for those who aren't able/haven't made arrangements to be able to change/take off the rug once the temps have risen by that 10degrees etc, then do they think it's acceptable to just leave the horse over heating? Personally I don't. For me, I would rather leave the horse cold for a couple of hours in the morning, before temps rise, than have a horse overheating for the rest of the day, if I am not able to get up to change the rug during the day.
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I one hundred percent agree! This is why I didn't full clip my mare but instead gave her trace clip so I can whip her rug off first thing and know that although it might be a little chilly at first, she will soon warm up as sun comes out. Haha - she would rather have a pile of hay if necessary to warm up or go for a gallop around the field. If I couldn't take her rug off in the morning, then I would be paying someone or bribing with wine! I will only full clip when temperatures cool down completely in the day and then she can have 50g or 100g rug on in day to begin with. I get so stressed about rugs and whether she is comfortable. So much easier with my retired mare who is hairy and will stay without a rug all year.
 
I'm not saying it doesn't happen but in all my horsing years I have never layed eyes on these horses that have two or three rugs on, are sweating and foaming at 19 degrees or standing exhausted due to the overheating caused by a rug. Perhaps I'm just lucky or have chosen my company carefully. I've also never known a horse to go for a gallop to warm itself up.

Look, in the majority of cases we might be talking about a horse who is slightly too warm. Conversely, there will be plenty of horses out there shivering. No real harm done in between the time it takes for the weather to settle to Winter.
 
For those that rug their horses it's an extremely difficult time of year, and it will be difficult again in spring.
For me rugging horses has become the norm. I have been called cruel for keeping my Dales out unrugged.
I have a public footpath though my field, I'm surprised I've not had a visit from the RSPCA on those days she has frost on her back and icicles on her whiskers. Lots of "poor horse" comments.
Only once in 11 yrs have I found her actually cold.
Of course there are reasons for rugging. Ease of keeping a grey clean, clipped horses, old horses, very poor doers etc.
I do think that some owners get caught up in anthropomorphism and peer pressure.
 
Moomin1 said:
The way I view it is, that if someone hasn't got the means to get to their horse/make arrangements for someone else to, in order to change the rug if temperatures vary that massively between those times, then they shouldn't have a horse which requires rugging to such an extent.

I must just be lucky with the horses I've had, they don't tend to drop weight, wither up and die or melt if they happen to get a bit cold for an hour or two. I would rather my horse on the cold side than sweating buckets in the midday heat in a rug which was put on in much lower temperatures.

Someone turned my horse out for me last winter and decided without even consulting me, or telling me afterwards, that they decided it felt cold to them, and because my horse was fully clipped, they felt it necessary to put a 200g stable rug on underneath her HW turnout. By the time I got there she was so distressed that she was almost climbing out of the field, drenched in foam and sweat. I'm quite sure it was ok first thing in the morning, but by the time it reached midday, that level of rugging became a welfare issue.
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my horse does not sweat under her 200g rug. Judging what people rug their horses in without knowing the situation is ridiculous. She needs the 200 because she feels cold, during the day the 200g is fine for her at the moment and at night she is probably a little bit cold. So we are rugging our horses the same way, yours just needs less padding.
 
Black Beastie said:
I for one won't be made to feel bad because I only see my horse very early and very late, not by some disembodied keyboard warrior anyway.
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Don't think anyone has implied that 'only' seeing your horse twice a day is an issue. Twice daily checks are normal and fine.

It's the horses who, at this time of year, seem to expected to cope without a rug change in 24 hours, when the ambient temperature can vary by 15c, that are concerning. It's a serious headache at this time of year to guesstimate which rug (or not) to use, and I'm sure all of us on here have, on occasion, got it wrong, but twice daily checks, with any necessary rug changes, should really be the base line.

I've had oldies, and their temp regulation goes wonky, so I'm pretty anal about not letting a horse cook, having seen one (40+ year old pony) down and distressed whilst in my care, when the temp was higher than forecast and it was sunny, not cloudy. (He perked up quickly when hosed off).
 
Tiddlypom said:
Don't think anyone has implied that 'only' seeing your horse twice a day is an issue. Twice daily checks are normal and fine.

It's the horses who, at this time of year, seem to expected to cope without a rug change in 24 hours, when the ambient temperature can vary by 15c, that are concerning. It's a serious headache at this time of year to guesstimate which rug (or not) to use, and I'm sure all of us on here have, on occasion, got it wrong, but twice daily checks, with any necessary rug changes, should really be the base line.

I've had oldies, and their temp regulation goes wonky, so I'm pretty anal about not letting a horse cook, having seen one (40+ year old pony) down and distressed whilst in my care, when the temp was higher than forecast and it was sunny, not cloudy. (He perked up quickly when hosed off).
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Well moomin was rather suggesting we should all make it out at lunchtime somehow once the day has warmed up. Though am not sure that if that can't be done her suggestion of leaving the horse colder for a couple of hours (I don't have an issue with that) necessarily means no rug at all but perhaps that is just because I don't know where all these super hot horses are.
 
Even twice a day I just think it's very easy to get it wrong at this time of year so I'm not going to be so judgemental.

You could turnout at 6am and rug for the pouring rain and wind only for it to warm up later.

Or if you/the yard turns out at say 4pm it will still be pretty warm. However the forecast is saying rain or frost overnight and last week when this thread was started we did have rain on 4 days out of 5.

I have two, on paper the same 16.2 tbs, one 7, one 13 so not especially old or young, neither has started growing their winter coat so have the same natural protection or lack of. However their needs are different. The older one is going out with a rain sheet with mesh panels when rain is forecast. He's always been a very hot horse that seems to generate a lot of internal heat.

The younger one has forced me to rethink my rugging. He feels the cold and isn't as greedy as horse 1 so isn't such a good doer. He has a 200g on. I stepped up to the latter when he started coming in looking a bit tucked up. He's a harder horse to keep weight on so I don't want months of very careful feeding and work to be undone by shivering weight off.

They both come in during the day and are naked as the stables are quite warm though on a cold rainy day last week ( I think it was tuesday) he felt a bit cold when I got there and had I not been about to ride and then turnout I might have put a light fleece on him.

If you'd seen him at 4pm in his rug you probably would have thought it inappropriate but you wouldn't do if you saw him come in cold and tucked up at 6am without.
 
ester said:
Well moomin was rather suggesting we should all make it out at lunchtime somehow once the day has warmed up. Though am not sure that if that can't be done her suggestion of leaving the horse colder for a couple of hours (I don't have an issue with that) necessarily means no rug at all but perhaps that is just because I don't know where all these super hot horses are.
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No I wasn't meaning that whatsoever. What I meant was, that if there is going to be a drastic increase in temperature during daytime hours, and someone cannot get there during those hours to change/remove a rug, then they should either under rug for the early morning temps, and leave the horse colder during those hours, or make arrangements for someone to change/remove the rug later on when it heats up. If there isn't any significant change in temp during daytime hours, then it's not so much of an issue obviously.
 
Moomin1 said:
No I wasn't meaning that whatsoever. What I meant was, that if there is going to be a drastic increase in temperature during daytime hours, and someone cannot get there during those hours to change/remove a rug, then they should either under rug for the early morning temps, and leave the horse colder during those hours, or make arrangements for someone to change/remove the rug later on when it heats up. If there isn't any significant change in temp during daytime hours, then it's not so much of an issue obviously.
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In Staffs, it is warming up significantly at around 8-8.30am so rugs off at 6.30am with a big pile of hay (if necessary) to help keep horse warm until the sun comes out a few hours later sounds like the best plan to me. I wouldn't dream of having a rug on my pony during the day when it is so warm and she is part clipped too. She has a 50g rug on at night as it has gone cold. In my opinion, rugging a horse that hasn't been clipped in warm, sunny weather is cruel. Horse's coats are designed to regulate temperatures. Look at the ponies in the New Forest who live out all year without rugs!
 
Ali27 said:
In Staffs, it is warming up significantly at around 8-8.30am so rugs off at 6.30am with a big pile of hay (if necessary) to help keep horse warm until the sun comes out a few hours later sounds like the best plan to me. I wouldn't dream of having a rug on my pony during the day when it is so warm and she is part clipped too. She has a 50g rug on at night as it has gone cold. In my opinion, rugging a horse that hasn't been clipped in warm, sunny weather is cruel. Horse's coats are designed to regulate temperatures. Look at the ponies in the New Forest who live out all year without rugs!
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Well in my opinion its cruel to treat every horse the same without understanding their needs as an individual. Some horses cant regulate their temperature due to illness, some horses need to have rugs on all year round one of my horses has terrible allergies and if he doesn't have a rug he gets sores on his skin. There are 101 reasons why a horse would have a rug on and judging the owner because you drove past the field and think you know whats best is just ignorant......in my own opinion. Unless you know the horse or the owner don't judge, especially when the horse is grazing away happily!
 
Yes OP totally agree about over rugging in hot weather. Over rugging is my bugbear. Absolutely no reasonable excuse for it
 
Oldnag and pingu I think you need to start keeping your noses out of other people's business.
My horse is rugged for very specific medical reasons but to look at him all you would see is a normal 6 yr old horse. However if his back gets cold or wet he turns into an absolutely crippled 6yr old horse who is in significant pain.
My yo doesn't do rug changes and in order to keep him in the style he is used to I work long hours. For him being slightly too warm is far far better than being slightly too cold.
But just driving past the field how would you know that? Stop being such judgemental arses who need to put everyone down in order to feel superior in some aspect of your life. Keeping horses is not a competitive sport.

Btw if you took my horses rug off without my direct request hell would seem like a nice place to holiday.
 
Haven't read all the posts here but here's my opinion fwiw! Rugging as with many things horsey is very emotive subject. I'm a YO and I see lots of things I don't agree with, but in the grand scheme of things, there are many things I would be a lot more upset by than over or under rugging. I do think though that owners think if they feel cold then their horse must feel cold as well, the reverse is not so true strangely? At the moment my clipped ones are in fly rugs during the day as we still have flies around, and at night, they are in medium weights as it goes close to freezing here. Very strange weather but I'm lucky I live on site so can change rugs accordingly. I will change rugs for horses, but there is a charge and most people don't want to pay it! I was told by my old vet many many years ago that no horse will ever die from the cold though!
 
Personally I think all horses are different and only the owner knows what's best for their horse. As said some horses have medical conditions which one cannot know about by just simply looking at it in a field. Rugging is a highly emotive subject. For me however my boy lives out 24/7 and is currently not rugged - his coat is coming through nicely at mo and we are currently having temps of 17/18 degrees at mo although the nights are colder, but hey he's happy. Once temps drop and rain starts he will be rugged accordingly. Oh the joy of standing in a wet freezing field changing rugs I can't wait LOL
 
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