Why do people assume a horse could not be retired?

My old boy was an imported sj'er, riggy, also had to be demoted to quiet hack/field ornament thanks to non-articular ringbone in both front pasterns. He's had almost a year out a couple of years previous due to a bad back and my saddler being really crap at getting a saddle sorted and he was a nightmare! Got bored, hooned around the field and was bloody dangerous to handle. In work he was much better. When his health issues got the better of him he was medicated, lightly hacked (total *******!!!) and sat in a field. He was retired for 4 months and again, spent his days running around the field (making himself sore) and was a nightmare to handle. He just didn't look happy. I guessed that after 4 months of him being sat in a field behaving like that it was time to call it a day before he injured himself or me. If he'd been chilled in the field I'd have happily kept him as a pet because I loved him dearly, but at the time that didn't look like a good idea!
 
kerilli said:
as above, it's in CR, and the much-loved horse, who has been owned by the family since he was a foal, is being PTS this morning. please please get this thread removed if you can, for the sake of the horse's family. they'll be upset enough today.
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That explains it then. I never look at CR. Have checked the thread in there though and doesn't that horse have other issues such as pain? If a horse is going to be in pain (unless very mild and easily controlled) then I have no problem with PTS.

This thread was set up as a discussion thread about something that people have different views about. There are PTS threads virtually every day and I don't think you can say that issues around PTS should not be discussed because of this. I think it is very important for the welfare of horses that such things are openly discussed.
 
Spudlet said:
Why do people assume that they know everything there is to know about every horse and that they can therefore pass judgement upon the decisions of others from behind a computer screen? Each horse is an individual and decisions should be made based on their individual needs alone - and no one should know that better than their owners.

Massive condolences to the family losing their buddy today.:(
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This.
 
amymay said:
To be fair to Wagtail, the post in CR is about a horse that is being pts today because of injury and no prognosis full stop. Not about a concern that it would not cope with retirement....
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Thank you.

Firstly I don't view that forum, and secondly, this is not the same thing as I am discussing on this thread. I have every sympathy with the poster of that thread, and I can assure her that this was in no way shape or form aimed at her.
 
I feel for the sake of Always broke this thread should be allowed to die and disappear. I have reported the thread. Its hard enough to say goodbye without having this debate going on.


I hope everyone will respect what AB is going through and allow this to die. For her sake.

She should be in our thoughts.
 
Super_Kat said:
My old boy was an imported sj'er, riggy, also had to be demoted to quiet hack/field ornament thanks to non-articular ringbone in both front pasterns. He's had almost a year out a couple of years previous due to a bad back and my saddler being really crap at getting a saddle sorted and he was a nightmare! Got bored, hooned around the field and was bloody dangerous to handle. In work he was much better. When his health issues got the better of him he was medicated, lightly hacked (total *******!!!) and sat in a field. He was retired for 4 months and again, spent his days running around the field (making himself sore) and was a nightmare to handle. He just didn't look happy. I guessed that after 4 months of him being sat in a field behaving like that it was time to call it a day before he injured himself or me. If he'd been chilled in the field I'd have happily kept him as a pet because I loved him dearly, but at the time that didn't look like a good idea!
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That was absolutely the right thing to do in his case. At least he had a chance. It is the ASSUMPTION that a horse would not settle in retirement that I have a problem with. Most horses can and do settle. Some become a little bored, some, as in the case of my mare become a little bit of a handful through excess energy, but so long as it's manageable, that's fine. If they become a danger to themselves or others, then that is a comletely different matter.
 
It is the ASSUMPTION that a horse would not settle in retirement that I have a problem with
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I can't imagine for a minute, though, that these decisions are taking without a great deal of thought - and previous experience of said horse being out of work for a period of time (perhaps due to injury) and simply not coping and being happy.

But the bottom line is - as said earlier - no one has the right to question the PTS decision, whatever the reason.
 
Wagtail said:
That was absolutely the right thing to do in his case. At least he had a chance. It is the ASSUMPTION that a horse would not settle in retirement that I have a problem with. Most horses can and do settle. Some become a little bored, some, as in the case of my mare become a little bit of a handful through excess energy, but so long as it's manageable, that's fine. If they become a danger to themselves or others, then that is a comletely different matter.
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I don't understand why you think it is your right to dictate whether that poster's decision was right or wrong?

Choosing to have a horse PTS is not abuse - there are plenty of other things to get upset about.
 
Wagtail said:
There are PTS threads virtually every day and I don't think you can say that issues around PTS should not be discussed because of this. I think it is very important for the welfare of horses that such things are openly discussed.
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There are pts threads nearly every day, and there are forumer's horses pts regularly, simply by virtue of the size of the forum - it's inevitable that posts will coincidentally be written on similar subjects (though I can't see that the CR thread is especially relevant to this one).

I don't have a problem with people pts their own horses without a retirement, but I agree with Wagtail that they shouldn't use "he wouldn't like retirement" as a blanket excuse. Some horses may not settle into retirement, but I suspect they are really the minority - with the right routine and attention, most horses would adapt. If you chose not to try, then humane destruction is the best alternative, but be honest about your motivations.

While my horses are field sound and happy, they will be allowed to ease off and retire, for what it's worth.
 
chestnut cob said:
Choosing to have a horse PTS is not abuse - there are plenty of other things to get upset about.
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I don't think it's choosing to have the horse pts that Wagtail is upset about - I think it's the inability of the owners to be honest with themselves about why they're doing it, choosing to dismiss retirement "because they wouldn't like it" rather than because it isn't practical for them financially.

Horses are expensive animals, I personally don't expect people to pay to keep them for no reason if they're retired, but my heart does sink a little when they use that particular reason.
 
Wagtail said:
I completely agree. It IS up to the owner to decide. I have no problem with what others want to do. (Your horses are very fortunate).

I only have a problem with the belief that so many people assume their horse would not be happy retired. By all means it is up to them to PTS but at least use a valid reason. Be it financial or otherwise.
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yeah and can you imagine the slating owner would get on here for saying
oh really sorry my horse is lame, he is not in pain But I can't afford two and I still want to ride so I am going to PTS.

people presume that horse has given years of service etc. BUT some don't some cause heartache and lots of problems from the start and owner never or rarely gets to do the things they bought the horse for. yet when they decide enough is enough they are evil

owner would get VERY VERY nasty comments so she/he chooses to say he/she won't cope with retirement.

maybe if people on here weren't so judgemental ESPECIALLY those who have an easy option of retiring on theirs or friends land then people could be more honest about their reasons
 
JFTD said:
I don't think it's choosing to have the horse pts that Wagtail is upset about - I think it's the inability of the owners to be honest with themselves about why they're doing it, choosing to dismiss retirement "because they wouldn't like it" rather than because it isn't practical for them financially.
.
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Why should they be honest with us, perfect strangers as long as they are honest with themselves and do the right thing for THEIR horse?
It matters not one jot what you think as long as what they're doing is right for them.
 
Maesfen said:
Why should they be honest with us, perfect strangers as long as they are honest with themselves and do the right thing for THEIR horse?
It matters not one jot what you think as long as what they're doing is right for them.
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I believe I said honest with themselves.

But actually, I do believe people should be honest on here - otherwise what's the point? Why shouldn't we be honest with strangers, whether online or in person? Since when has dishonesty for any reason been acceptable? Thin end of the wedge...
 
JFTD said:
I don't think it's choosing to have the horse pts that Wagtail is upset about - I think it's the inability of the owners to be honest with themselves about why they're doing it, choosing to dismiss retirement "because they wouldn't like it" rather than because it isn't practical for them financially.

Horses are expensive animals, I personally don't expect people to pay to keep them for no reason if they're retired, but my heart does sink a little when they use that particular reason.
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Exactly. If I read that someone is having their horse put to sleep for financial reasons, I think it's sad, but not a lot can be done about it. If I read that a field sound horse is not going to be given the chance of retirement because the owner says the horse could never be happy retired, then I will question it as I firmly believe that MOST horses will settle into retirement. As is true of my friend, she genuinely was led to believe this due to other people often using it as a reason for them to PTS either because they genuinely believed it or because it made them appear more compassionate. When I asked her how she thought he was BEFORE he was even backed, she realised that he had had to adapt to a working life and that chances were he would adapt to a retired one. She feels a weight has been lifted from her.
 
Interesting thread and food for thought. I keep my old mare in hacking work (light) and keep her groomed and trimmed up and she is happier for that. Having been a highly succesful competition horse (before and after I had her) she does like to keep her hoof in so to speak. I can't retire her fully either as she won't live out (have tried, would dearly love to take advantage of the retirement facilities at my yard) so I just keep her ticking over.

But emotion does play a very VERY high factor in this. This mare helped me achieve a life times goal and got me eventing upto Novice. She is one of the nicest and most straightforward horses I have ever had the pleasure to know so I always felt I really owed her a nice slowdown/retirement albeit she does still like to show she isn't a total walkover. I am not just a bit of a bunny hugger though as have had other horses who I have been happy to see the back off and had no regrets with. I sold a horse a few years back very cheaply (and honestly) aged 14 as I knew there could well be a point my mare would come home after being on loan. I wanted to carry on riding and she was always a priority.
 
Maesfen said:
It matters not one jot what you think as long as what they're doing is right for them.
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... and their horses. Painful conditions and those with poor prognosis illnesses and catastrophic trauma are not the same in my view as not fit for purpose but still fit to lead a sedentary or low key but happy and comfortable life. Horses aren't machines you can turn on and off because they can't do what we want to do.

Having a horse put to sleep is a very hard and painful decision to make but it is easier when you know in your heart it is the best option in my experience.
 
Last mare was PTS, she could never be retired without constant physio and hacking for the rest of her life, she napped out hacking because of the slipped disk, vicious circle, she would bronk until I was off and did more damage to herself and hurt me. She would never be truly paddock sound as without physio she would seize and not be able to work.. I wouldn't even be able to go away for a week!! To me that was no life so she was PTS.

For me, I would rather PTS a horse then retire it. Yes finance comes into it and secondly even if you sold it as a companion, because it was field sound some idiot would try and ride the poor thing and do damage to themselves or the horse.

I believe we all have our own views, and we all know our own horses so we make those decisions as best informed as we can, as noone knows your horse better than you!

If I can't afford to retire a horse as a companion myself then they will be PTS to stop idiots trying to ride them in the future.
 
soulfull said:
yeah and can you imagine the slating owner would get on here for saying
oh really sorry my horse is lame, he is not in pain But I can't afford two and I still want to ride so I am going to PTS.

people presume that horse has given years of service etc. BUT some don't some cause heartache and lots of problems from the start and owner never or rarely gets to do the things they bought the horse for. yet when they decide enough is enough they are evil

owner would get VERY VERY nasty comments so she/he chooses to say he/she won't cope with retirement.

maybe if people on here weren't so judgemental ESPECIALLY those who have an easy option of retiring on theirs or friends land then people could be more honest about their reasons
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If I was having a horse PTS for financial reasons, no way would I post on here. In fact, I wouldn't post on here about having a PTS other than as a tribute after the event or if I really could not decide whether it was the right thing to do for the welfare of the horse. Though very doubtful that I would do either.

I see financial reasons as perfectly valid reasons FWIW. But would do everything I could to avoid it if possible. This thread is not about financial reasons. It is about the misconception that a horse cannot cope with retirement.
 
My mare will be retired when I can no longer ride her. At the moment she is at livery but once retired she'll come home to be a field ornament. Luckily we have several acres and stables to spare. It would be different if she had to be kept at livery (when the facilities for riding are much better) because the expense would prevent me from ever having a ridable horse. I'm not sure what I'd do then, would feel terrible with either decision.
 
Wagtail said:
Completely agree. I would worry about an injured horse being passed to the wrong hands. PTS is better I think if a horses future cannot be secured. But it just annoys me that people will turn away their hiunters for the summer and then say that they would not be happy retired as soon as they can no longer do their job. It is a fallacy that some others may actually believe. Others that may be able to afford to retire a loved horse.
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In terms of turning hunters away I think it is a very different situation, being that (hopefully) the weather is kinder, the days are longer and there is an abundance of grass. Whereas keeping a horse as a 'field ornament' is a totally different situation, especially in the rubbish winter months and a decision that purley boils down to cost and time. My hunters certainly summer out very nicely but over the winter, without exercise, turn out without exercise or standing in during adverse weather certainly does not appeal to me an owner.

I have just had an ex pointer to pointer PTS because he was lame and in pain, in the field as well as when exercised, the vets agreed that this was the correct thing to do as he was a working animal who, I truely believe, would never have adjusted to being roughed off. We do have our own land and stabling but for us it was a matter of time, he was a good age and had already escaped the knackerman previous to us rescuing him and I truely believe we did everything we could for him.

That said, we have only just very recently lost our 29 year old shetland cross, who had suffered with cushens for 10 years, I think it totally depends on the animal in question.
 
Luci07 said:
Interesting thread and food for thought. I keep my old mare in hacking work (light) and keep her groomed and trimmed up and she is happier for that. Having been a highly succesful competition horse (before and after I had her) she does like to keep her hoof in so to speak. I can't retire her fully either as she won't live out (have tried, would dearly love to take advantage of the retirement facilities at my yard) so I just keep her ticking over.

But emotion does play a very VERY high factor in this. This mare helped me achieve a life times goal and got me eventing upto Novice. She is one of the nicest and most straightforward horses I have ever had the pleasure to know so I always felt I really owed her a nice slowdown/retirement albeit she does still like to show she isn't a total walkover. I am not just a bit of a bunny hugger though as have had other horses who I have been happy to see the back off and had no regrets with. I sold a horse a few years back very cheaply (and honestly) aged 14 as I knew there could well be a point my mare would come home after being on loan. I wanted to carry on riding and she was always a priority.
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I wish I was able to hack my mare, but she was a nightmare hacking at the best of times and her shoulder is quite unstable so wouldn't be safe to ride her. She is still kept in the same manner as before retirement and brought in at night during the winter. The only difference is she is not clipped. I agree that emotion plays a role and the longer a horse has been with you and the closer the bond, generally, the more effort will be made to retire them.
 
I sincerely hope this thread is not removed, not because I'm particularly enjoying it but because on a forum this size with so many new threads daily it is inevitable that you will get conflicting topics which may inadvertently upset people. To start picking and choosing which threads should be allowed to remain .. well really :(

How are we to know whose horse is being pts today - not everyone posts about it, nor do we all have time to sit and read every single thread on here.

What about posts about family illness etc, where one person's post may coincide with another user's personal circumstances?

I had one of my horses pts the other day - for reasons that are mine and mine alone - yet I can read this thread, comment on it and not feel hurt or singled out by the OP - and I will freely admit that in the past I've not agreed with the OP on a number of subjects - but that is life's rich pattern, is it not?
 
I know of at least two who wouldn't cope, they're well and truly institutionalized and one has been retired before and box walked, fence walked and lost weight through stressing despite being with other horses all the time.
 
Dancing Queen said:
i agree with you 100% so many people are so quick to PTS and use so many excuses - basically they cant be arsed/caring enough to give the animal a decent thank you and retire them for all their efforts. disgusting and selfish behaviour really.

x
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Ooopsy DQ that sounds a terribly pious blanket statement, everyone has their reasons for doing what they do:(

At the end of the day, the horse neither knows, nor cares, that the next day is their last one as far as I am concerned. A bucket of forbidden treats, a kind word, and bang! Where's the problem in that? The horse knows nothing.

PTS is caring/taking responsibility for the horse, I would say less disgusting and selfish than condemning an ageing or painridden animal to day after day in a paddock until it is too ill or crippled for the owner to ignore the fact that Vet/Kennelman really should be called in.
 
Where has this statement or thought come from that people (being the majority) assume that their horses will not cope with retirement? It is evident from this post that people asses their individual horses needs and do not just assume. If they do decide that their particular horse will not cope with retirement then that is based on their knowledge of their horse, no one is able to know what their horse is thinking or more feeling and so what ever decision we make on behalf of our horses can only be made from our best judgement regardless of whether this is because they will be bored, not bored or for financial reasons.
This whole discussion seems to have started from an assumption and a general sweeping statement?! Confused as to the actual point of it?
 
I have 2 field ornaments at the moment...
My veteran mare is retired, and once she shows signs of discomfort and unhappiness, she will be PTS.
My gelding is out of work due to a suspensory ligament injury, its not known if or when he will return to work at the moment.

I'm lucky that I have land in my family, so my horses are pretty minimal to keep, otherwise I don't know what I'd have done with either of them as I'm a poor student! I would probably have considered PTS for my mare, but not sure with my gelding, I think I'll give him a couple of years but if he doesn't come sound, I'll have to reconsider his options... He does love to work, but for now is quite happy enjoying his holiday, if he ever doesn't seem happy not working I would consider having him PTS... no I don't think I'm cruel, I would hate to think my horses were unhappy!!!! :o :(
 
Actually we have another horse retired at the yard who is pretty much in his box 23 hours a day. Before anyone says how cruel, its how he has ended up being wanted to be kept. He has numerous allergies and feed problems. His owner comes up without fail every day, he goes out in the school every day and is brushed and pampered and looks really well. He also has a box in prime position to see what is going on. I am sure his owner would love him to be retired to the fields but that won't work for him so she is forking out for part livery and her time as she loves the old boy.
 
We had a 5 year old TB who severed her tendon on a hind by treading on a glass bottle out hacking in the woods. She was sent to RVC, who were suggesting she could be fixed and they operated, and put her in a plaster cast. She spent 6 unhappy months sedated in a stable, and then after many discussions with the vet, she was put into foal by AI as to not risk the injury. The vet said at this stage that she was unlikely to become sound but she would need at least a further year off, and suggested the foal.

She suffered with stress and colic, but gave birth to a healthy foal. After weaning, we then tried to bring her back into work, but all she wanted to do was jog - and each time she came back lame because she was supposed to walk. She was turned out, but stood by the gate. Her leg suffered with the mud, and cold and she was very stiff - so she stayed in. So it was obviously she was not going to come sound. But, we had come this far....what to do? The vet suggested using her as a broodmare, so the following summer she had another foal, and during the summer in the dry, she was sound. Unless she had a little gallop round the field, and then she would be lame for days....she was only 8.

But again...we had come this far...so what to do. We were always saying that if it got bad, the she would be PTS, but each time, a few days later she was ok. The vet always said a few days.

If we could turn back time, we would have had her PTS at the initial injury. It was no life for a 5 year old TB. Yes we had lovely foals from her, but I would never say she was happy. She was an young horse living the life of an elderly horse. Retirement did not suit her, but we kept trying as she had already overcome so much - In her short life, she had 3 General Anaesthetics - more than most would ever have.
 
Wagtail said:
But it just annoys me that people will turn away their hiunters for the summer and then say that they would not be happy retired as soon as they can no longer do their job. It is a fallacy that some others may actually believe.
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Interestingly it often turns out to be hunters who are the worst at retirement. And their season 'clock's' can be very fine tuned, turning them in to complete stress heads once the season has started, and their not up and hunting.
 
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