Why do people buy dogs with potential welfare problems related to extreme conformation and inherited disease?

[skinnydipper]

Why do people buy dogs with potential welfare problems related to extreme conformation and inherited disease? A representative study of Danish owners of four small dog breeds

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/269286261.pdf

 

[maisie06]

I came to the conclusion they were following fashion trends, especially when celebrities buy and endorse such breeds. I think it's so very very wrong to carry on breeding what are essentially disabled dogs. I work in a feed store and one lady came in with a frenchie that was snorting and snuffling at 4 months olds and all she could say was how cute it was... I felt really sad for the poor thing.

 

[meleeka]

I’ve no idea! I’m not sure why people choose to set themselves up for worry and heartbreak and pay for the privilege. My neighbour has a Sharpei. Adorable she might be, but she’s already had surgery on her face and she’s only young. My neighbour says, with some degree of pride, thar she’ll have to have more when she’s older. Another friends Pug is a walking vet bill.

Perhaps it’s because I’ve always had healthy dogs, but the stress and worry (and expense) when they are ill is something I’d avoid if I possibly could.

 

[palo1]

No idea whatsoever!! It always makes me think those people are a bit 'thick' and/or have no prior experience of looking after an animal as most folk who do have experience of looking after animals do everything that they can to avoid health issues and vets bills. I literally have no clue why you would get into breeding these sorts of dogs (unless you are a seriously dodgy bin-end puppy farmer making money; that speaks for itself). The higher/top level breeders of certain breeds are a total moral and psychological mystery to me frankly.

 

[HeyMich]

Because they simply don't know any better?

 

[AmyMay]

We’re about to be given second dog, who’s a Shitsu. He has absolutely no breathing problems at all.

 

[TPO]

Just wondering, what breeds are acceptable to the Know It Alls on HHO? Should everyone stick with wolves?

There isnt a breed that doesnt have it's own issues. Working collies are possibly one of the least interfered with breeds and even they have their own breed specific issues.

It is possible to like a breed that the HHO massive dont agree with and know about the bloodlines and breeding to ensure it's a healthy dog and not bred to extremities.

I know its hard to comprehend for many of you but there are literally hundreds of people who have forgotten more about dogs than you'll ever know but dont spend their time judging on a forum. Perhaps look outside of your bubble.

There are bad examples of every breed. There are puppy farmers producing every breed. There are morons who buy from said breeders.

During my lifetime my family have had dogs from every group and very successfully competed in the ring, working trials, gun dog trials, obedience, field trials, shooting/beating, sheep trials and cattle work.

My nana still holds some sort of record from 1978 for showing and she is the same person that wont sell one of her mutant dogs (chihuahuas) to anyone who works or lives in a flat because she doesnt believe that is in a dogs best interest. She has never followed trends or bred "tea cups". In over 71 years of owning, breeding and showing Chihuahuas there have been the odd one lost, as happens with every breed, but no "mutants" and no health defects that were common. Anything that wasnt top standard, as many aren't when breeding litters, went to pet homes with a no breeding restriction.

I'm pretty sure this post is because my parents own frenchies that I've previously posted pictures of. My mum has had dogs of various breeds her whole life. She isnt ignorant or without a vast knowledge of various breeds as you are inferring with your own ignorant replies.

I could quote you the pedigrees of these dogs and show you those dogs to illustrate how these arent "bred to extremes for morons" dogs but true to type french Bulldogs. The fawn one especially is more of an "old type" and much bigger.

However it is clear that you are more into the fun of throwing mud rather than admitting your own lack of knowledge or being open minded to learning about breeds. Not the HHO dog people way as has been demonstrated for over a decade.

Its hilarous that the self appointed experts (and the one who thinks they are cleverer than everyone else on the board ?) are allowed to like "their" breeds and those reasons are acceptable. Heaven help anyone who veers off piste and happens to like the characteristics and personality of something different.

Clearly those people are air heads who follow fashion (?) and dont know one end of a dog from another. If only they had the great of HHO to put them right...

 

[blackcob]

You're right that there isn't a single breed free from issues but at least the dog-shaped ones are mostly free to breathe, move and reproduce without hindrance.

 

[skinnydipper]

Just wondering, what breeds are acceptable to the Know It Alls on HHO? Should everyone stick with wolves?

There isnt a breed that doesnt have it's own issues. Working collies are possibly one of the least interfered with breeds and even they have their own breed specific issues.

It is possible to like a breed that the HHO massive dont agree with and know about the bloodlines and breeding to ensure it's a healthy dog and not bred to extremities.

I know its hard to comprehend for many of you but there are literally hundreds of people who have forgotten more about dogs than you'll ever know but dont spend their time judging on a forum. Perhaps look outside of your bubble.

There are bad examples of every breed. There are puppy farmers producing every breed. There are morons who buy from said breeders.

During my lifetime my family have had dogs from every group and very successfully competed in the ring, working trials, gun dog trials, obedience, field trials, shooting/beating, sheep trials and cattle work.

My nana still holds some sort of record from 1978 for showing and she is the same person that wont sell one of her mutant dogs (chihuahuas) to anyone who works or lives in a flat because she doesnt believe that is in a dogs best interest. She has never followed trends or bred "tea cups". In over 71 years of owning, breeding and showing Chihuahuas there have been the odd one lost, as happens with every breed, but no "mutants" and no health defects that were common. Anything that wasnt top standard, as many aren't when breeding litters, went to pet homes with a no breeding restriction.

I'm pretty sure this post is because my parents own frenchies that I've previously posted pictures of. My mum has had dogs of various breeds her whole life. She isnt ignorant or without a vast knowledge of various breeds as you are inferring with your own ignorant replies.

I could quote you the pedigrees of these dogs and show you those dogs to illustrate how these arent "bred to extremes for morons" dogs but true to type french Bulldogs. The fawn one especially is more of an "old type" and much bigger.

However it is clear that you are more into the fun of throwing mud rather than admitting your own lack of knowledge or being open minded to learning about breeds. Not the HHO dog people way as has been demonstrated for over a decade.

Its hilarous that the self appointed experts (and the one who thinks they are cleverer than everyone else on the board ?) are allowed to like "their" breeds and those reasons are acceptable. Heaven help anyone who veers off piste and happens to like the characteristics and personality of something different.

Clearly those people are air heads who follow fashion (?) and dont know one end of a dog from another. If only they had the great of HHO to put them right...

I haven't read all your post but I get the gist of it - you are very upset.

I shared the study because it came up on my Facebook feed and I thought people might be interested in it.

I didn't comment on the study - I left it to people to read for themselves.

It is obviously a very sensitive issue for you and if you feel upset that I shared the study I apologise BUT I don't want to feel that I cannot share information that I think might interest others on AAD.

 

[palo1]

Just wondering, what breeds are acceptable to the Know It Alls on HHO? Should everyone stick with wolves?

There isnt a breed that doesnt have it's own issues. Working collies are possibly one of the least interfered with breeds and even they have their own breed specific issues.

It is possible to like a breed that the HHO massive dont agree with and know about the bloodlines and breeding to ensure it's a healthy dog and not bred to extremities.

I know its hard to comprehend for many of you but there are literally hundreds of people who have forgotten more about dogs than you'll ever know but dont spend their time judging on a forum. Perhaps look outside of your bubble.

There are bad examples of every breed. There are puppy farmers producing every breed. There are morons who buy from said breeders.

During my lifetime my family have had dogs from every group and very successfully competed in the ring, working trials, gun dog trials, obedience, field trials, shooting/beating, sheep trials and cattle work.

My nana still holds some sort of record from 1978 for showing and she is the same person that wont sell one of her mutant dogs (chihuahuas) to anyone who works or lives in a flat because she doesnt believe that is in a dogs best interest. She has never followed trends or bred "tea cups". In over 71 years of owning, breeding and showing Chihuahuas there have been the odd one lost, as happens with every breed, but no "mutants" and no health defects that were common. Anything that wasnt top standard, as many aren't when breeding litters, went to pet homes with a no breeding restriction.

I'm pretty sure this post is because my parents own frenchies that I've previously posted pictures of. My mum has had dogs of various breeds her whole life. She isnt ignorant or without a vast knowledge of various breeds as you are inferring with your own ignorant replies.

I could quote you the pedigrees of these dogs and show you those dogs to illustrate how these arent "bred to extremes for morons" dogs but true to type french Bulldogs. The fawn one especially is more of an "old type" and much bigger.

However it is clear that you are more into the fun of throwing mud rather than admitting your own lack of knowledge or being open minded to learning about breeds. Not the HHO dog people way as has been demonstrated for over a decade.

Its hilarous that the self appointed experts (and the one who thinks they are cleverer than everyone else on the board ?) are allowed to like "their" breeds and those reasons are acceptable. Heaven help anyone who veers off piste and happens to like the characteristics and personality of something different.

Clearly those people are air heads who follow fashion (?) and dont know one end of a dog from another. If only they had the great of HHO to put them right...

I get that you are upset. I am sorry if anything I have written contributes to that I agree with some of what you have said and completely get that some of the breeds of dogs that you are knowledgeable about (Frenchies etc) can be bred to be healthy; that isn't a real problem at all - it's just that so many of certain breeds ARE being bred with really serious issues. I was just saying not that some breeders aren't breeding healthy stock but that I have no idea why people would get into those breeds as the general tendency is for more extreme types. Sadly I have never met a Frenchie or bulldog or pug without issues and they are lovely dogs usually but their basic conformation is not easy to keep healthy. I was just saying what I thought and have experienced. I didn't mean it in any way personally - I literally just don't understand why these breeds in their current 'form' are so appealing purely because of the accompanying health issues. Sincere apologies for any offence caused.

 

[SOS]

You're right that there isn't a single breed free from issues but at least the dog-shaped ones are mostly free to breathe, move and reproduce without hindrance.

This with bells on. No animal should be being bred with health problems and certainly not those who often need surgery before they can even function in life (I.e BOAS for brachycephalics).

Why do I think people buy these animals? A multitude of reasons. They don’t care. Ignorance is bliss. Poorly bred dogs are cheaper in the immediate future to purchase (but obviously not later on). It’s hard to find decent breeders. People don’t educate themselves on puppies before they buy. They have no idea about vet bills. Their friends have that breed and have never had a problem. Some breed standards promote it so people buy a KC dog which still has serious defects. They actually like the look of the dog. Never over estimate common sense, if the last year has taught me anything it’s that most people do not understand very basic biology or instructions.

 

[SOS]

I almost left this forum as a previous poster flew into me about Cavalier spaniels and dragged my profession through the mud. There are good breeders out there of every breed, but there are also a lot of bad. And unfortunately no matter how good you are, if the majority are churning out poorly bred, ill health animals for peanuts, your carefully selected, one litter a year or less, well bred animals for (rightly) a good price are not going to saturate the market. Hence why the conditions continue. Our nation of “animal lovers” is anything but.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I wish more people would research the breed they are buying and make sure it suits their lifestyle and what they require from it. For so many people it all seems to be about fashion and the 'look' of a dog never mind what it was actually bred to do. I watched 'Dogs Behaving Badly' last night and as I often do just wondered what people were thinking of when they bought a particular breed. The lady who is a dog walker and has shown standard poodles got an Afghan because she had always fancied one and then struggled to control it. She wasn't a novice with dogs, far from it but didn't seem to understand that afghans are not poodles and need very different handling. Another lady who was semi disabled due to back problems bought a Springer spaniel pup, a working breed that needs loads of training and exercise, just why?
I despair sometimes.

 

[Clodagh]

TPO, I feel I am not allowed to comment on this thread without you having a right go at me! But, without opening the link (I haven't done), I believe people like flat faced dogs as they look more human like and more like children. Apparently that is why we are drawn to them.
Now, I don't like people very much so the less my dogs look like humans the better!

 

[ihatework]

I almost left this forum as a previous poster flew into me about Cavalier spaniels and dragged my profession through the mud. There are good breeders out there of every breed, but there are also a lot of bad. And unfortunately no matter how good you are, if the majority are churning out poorly bred, ill health animals for peanuts, your carefully selected, one litter a year or less, well bred animals for (rightly) a good price are not going to saturate the market. Hence why the conditions continue. Our nation of “animal lovers” is anything but.

SOS, are you involved in cavaliers?
If so would you mind if I PM you, a friend has narrowed down future dog to one and I’m going to need to guide them on what and where to buy!

 

[Lipglosspukka]

I don't get it at all.

The way I see it, you fall in love with your dog regardless of what he is or isn't. I don't really like small dogs for instance, but if I got given a toy poodle puppy then you can bet your bottom dollar I would be just as in love and smitten with it once we have bonded as I would any of my other dogs.

Why set yourself up for heartache with a dog who is more likely to suffer? I once saw a bloke walking a British bulldog alongside a reservoir. The dog went too far into the water and the bloke had to go in and get it out because it couldn't swim!! I mean really!?

 

[Landcruiser]

Just wondering, what breeds are acceptable to the Know It Alls on HHO? Should everyone stick with wolves?

There isnt a breed that doesnt have it's own issues. Working collies are possibly one of the least interfered with breeds and even they have their own breed specific issues.

It is possible to like a breed that the HHO massive dont agree with and know about the bloodlines and breeding to ensure it's a healthy dog and not bred to extremities.

I know its hard to comprehend for many of you but there are literally hundreds of people who have forgotten more about dogs than you'll ever know but dont spend their time judging on a forum. Perhaps look outside of your bubble.

There are bad examples of every breed. There are puppy farmers producing every breed. There are morons who buy from said breeders.

During my lifetime my family have had dogs from every group and very successfully competed in the ring, working trials, gun dog trials, obedience, field trials, shooting/beating, sheep trials and cattle work.

My nana still holds some sort of record from 1978 for showing and she is the same person that wont sell one of her mutant dogs (chihuahuas) to anyone who works or lives in a flat because she doesnt believe that is in a dogs best interest. She has never followed trends or bred "tea cups". In over 71 years of owning, breeding and showing Chihuahuas there have been the odd one lost, as happens with every breed, but no "mutants" and no health defects that were common. Anything that wasnt top standard, as many aren't when breeding litters, went to pet homes with a no breeding restriction.

I'm pretty sure this post is because my parents own frenchies that I've previously posted pictures of. My mum has had dogs of various breeds her whole life. She isnt ignorant or without a vast knowledge of various breeds as you are inferring with your own ignorant replies.

I could quote you the pedigrees of these dogs and show you those dogs to illustrate how these arent "bred to extremes for morons" dogs but true to type french Bulldogs. The fawn one especially is more of an "old type" and much bigger.

However it is clear that you are more into the fun of throwing mud rather than admitting your own lack of knowledge or being open minded to learning about breeds. Not the HHO dog people way as has been demonstrated for over a decade.

Its hilarous that the self appointed experts (and the one who thinks they are cleverer than everyone else on the board ?) are allowed to like "their" breeds and those reasons are acceptable. Heaven help anyone who veers off piste and happens to like the characteristics and personality of something different.

Clearly those people are air heads who follow fashion (?) and dont know one end of a dog from another. If only they had the great of HHO to put them right...

Ok. Your family are clearly knowledgeable and responsible dog owners. I don't think anyone is remotely discussing people like you - the issue here is that dogs continue to be bred with known issues and unwary or irresponsible people too often buy them and end up with heartbreak and huge bills/insurance claims. This isn't just a load of forum members sniping, it's an issue that is also concerning the entire veterinary profession. I'm only a vet receptionist, but in the last 6 years I've learned enough to know the issues that specific breeds are much more likely to suffer from. We experience (every single day) that heartbreak and ongoing expense.
Some breeds pretty much ALWAYS have breathing issues, english bulldogs for instance. Add in cherry eye, leg issues, skin fold issues, and birthing issues and just WHY are these poor things with their life/welfare limiting issues being bought/bred?

We are a small vet practice but we have plenty, and I mean plenty of dachshunds with spinal issues, pugs and frenchies with eye and breathing issues, cavvies with breathing, brain and heart issues, sharpeis with skin issues, westies with skin issues...I could go on, and I'm not even clinically trained. No vet wants to be treating these things, which are generally long term with poor outcomes. You wouldn't believe the abuse we get as well, from people who accuse us of "Just trying to get money out of them" and failing to find a miracle cure for their dog's inherited issues.
Sorry, rant over, but at the end of the day it's the dogs that suffer most.

 

[Bellasophia]

A vet posted this..it made a lot of sense..

 

[paisley]

Why do people buy dogs with potential welfare problems related to extreme conformation and inherited disease? A representative study of Danish owners of four small dog breeds

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/269286261.pdf

I would very tentavely suggest its an increase in self entitlement. The idea that you have a right to something that should be regarded as a priviledge or to be earned.

So rather than having a healthy individual as their companion/family member, some people choose to drive their need for consumerism and demand animals that can be 'accessorised'.

 

[Clodagh]

A vet posted this..it made a lot of sense..
View attachment 67099

That is spot on, tbh!

 

[Bellasophia]

And I like the terrier and blog...how to buy a good dog.

https://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2009/10/so-you-want-dog.html

 

[Lipglosspukka]

And I like the terrier and blog...how to buy a good dog.

https://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2009/10/so-you-want-dog.html

I wasn't aware there were risks of deafness in merle dogs? Double merle, sure, but in normal merle dogs?

 

[PapaverFollis]

I wasn't aware there were risks of deafness in merle dogs? Double merle, sure, but in normal merle dogs?

Yes there's increased risk in merles. I think there's also a risk of deafness with albinism? Basically if they are also very white it can cause deafness. I think there are cells in the ears that need to have colour to function?? I fostered a deaf merle puppy a while ago. He wasn't a double merle. I read up about it but it's all a bit hazy.

 

[AmyMay]

I wasn't aware there were risks of deafness in merle dogs? Double merle, sure, but in normal merle dogs?

Yep. Friends Merle bc is as deaf as a stone.

 

[splashgirl45]

I wish more people would research the breed they are buying and make sure it suits their lifestyle and what they require from it. For so many people it all seems to be about fashion and the 'look' of a dog never mind what it was actually bred to do. I watched 'Dogs Behaving Badly' last night and as I often do just wondered what people were thinking of when they bought a particular breed. The lady who is a dog walker and has shown standard poodles got an Afghan because she had always fancied one and then struggled to control it. She wasn't a novice with dogs, far from it but didn't seem to understand that afghans are not poodles and need very different handling. Another lady who was semi disabled due to back problems bought a Springer spaniel pup, a working breed that needs loads of training and exercise, just why?
I despair sometimes.

i watched that and couldnt believe a dog walker didnt know that a sight hound can have dodgy recall and why would you let an 8 month old sighthound off lead if it had no recall? surely a dog walker knows about using a long line.....also did you notice he tightened the martingale collar before he walked it, although he seems like a nice person and is good at his solutions i cant believe that the results are shown in real time as everything is fixed very quickly and not giving a true picture. people who watch will think its easy and quick to train out faults one of the keys to sorting out training problems is the human needs to have patience and wait for the dog to understand what is wanted..

 

[conniegirl]

i watched that and couldnt believe a dog walker didnt know that a sight hound can have dodgy recall and why would you let an 8 month old sighthound off lead if it had no recall? surely a dog walker knows about using a long line.....also did you notice he tightened the martingale collar before he walked it, although he seems like a nice person and is good at his solutions i cant believe that the results are shown in real time as everything is fixed very quickly and not giving a true picture. people who watch will think its easy and quick to train out faults one of the keys to sorting out training problems is the human needs to have patience and wait for the dog to understand what is wanted..

I watched and thought that she was a very bad advertisement for dog walking. I too was thinking why on earth would you let the dog off lead at all when you KNOW you have no recall and you KNOW there are open gates the dog can get through with major hazards on the other side? why would you not 1) try a long lead and 2) have the dog in a secure safe environment like a dog field.

I have a beagle, they are notorious for recall problems, he was NOT let off a long lead for a good year after I got him, it took me that long to be completely sure that I could recall him at any time no matter what he was doing and that was with a well trained adult dog!
my border terrier was a bit quicker, I think it was 6 months before we let her off the long line but she is back on one now as having been attacked on a walk by a much bigger dog she has become a bit dog aggressive so I need to be able to get her back to me very quickly.

 

[splashgirl45]

and it is a SIGHT HOUND!!!! and as a previous sight hound owner i know some of them can be taught good recall but many cant and owners use long lines so dogs can have a bit of a run and they also hire secure places to let them free run, its not rocket science...

 

[sportsmansB]

I don't get it at all.

The way I see it, you fall in love with your dog regardless of what he is or isn't. I don't really like small dogs for instance, but if I got given a toy poodle puppy then you can bet your bottom dollar I would be just as in love and smitten with it once we have bonded as I would any of my other dogs.

Why set yourself up for heartache with a dog who is more likely to suffer? I once saw a bloke walking a British bulldog alongside a reservoir. The dog went too far into the water and the bloke had to go in and get it out because it couldn't swim!! I mean really!?

I have a friend with a dog who can't descend a normal staircase because its head is too heavy... and it definitely can't swim

 

[meleeka]

i watched that and couldnt believe a dog walker didnt know that a sight hound can have dodgy recall and why would you let an 8 month old sighthound off lead if it had no recall? surely a dog walker knows about using a long line.....also did you notice he tightened the martingale collar before he walked it, although he seems like a nice person and is good at his solutions i cant believe that the results are shown in real time as everything is fixed very quickly and not giving a true picture. people who watch will think its easy and quick to train out faults one of the keys to sorting out training problems is the human needs to have patience and wait for the dog to understand what is wanted..

The Spaniel got me. My SIL’s dog is the same. He swapped one obsession for another, less annoying one, but didn’t address the lack of exercise and stimulation issue at all. I was going to suggest SIL watched it, but I don’t think it’ll teach her anything tbh. I do find the programme gives a simplified view of training, giving people the impression that problems are easy to cure, rather than the idea it’s better not to have them in the first place.

 

[SOS]

SOS, are you involved in cavaliers?
If so would you mind if I PM you, a friend has narrowed down future dog to one and I’m going to need to guide them on what and where to buy!

Im not I’m afraid, the poster sort of was and supposedly bred healthy ones. I’d just be very strict and go for the old looking styles (longer noses!) and insist on health testing (heart heart heart with them!).