Why do some people have horses?

So you are saying that it's the same as owning a holiday house abroad, or a sports car for the summer. Surely if there were not people having horses on full livery that don't go to see the animals from one month to the next (I have been one of these people in the past) doesn't mean that they don't care for it. I used to be in contact with my YO when I wasn't in the country at least 3 times a week to check they were all well. And the YO and groom were the ones who noticed when my horse wasn't well just slightly off colour, as they had contact with them every day and got to know their personalities. I think it is better this way as had I been a part or DIY'er my horse could have got to a stage of being far more ill because I wasn't on the yard all day to see it deteriorate, whereas they did as they knew the horse so well. So there are benefits in full livery for the horses welfare.
 
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So you are saying that it's the same as owning a holiday house abroad, or a sports car for the summer. Surely if there were not people having horses on full livery that don't go to see the animals from one month to the next (I have been one of these people in the past) doesn't mean that they don't care for it. I used to be in contact with my YO when I wasn't in the country at least 3 times a week to check they were all well. And the YO and groom were the ones who noticed when my horse wasn't well just slightly off colour, as they had contact with them every day and got to know their personalities. I think it is better this way as had I been a part or DIY'er my horse could have got to a stage of being far more ill because I wasn't on the yard all day to see it deteriorate, whereas they did as they knew the horse so well. So there are benefits in full livery for the horses welfare.

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I'd just like to point out that although in full livery, the YO should be responsible for the horse's welfare, the horse owner has a moral responsibility to check periodically that the horse is being properly cared for....ignorance being no defence if the horse has been neglected or abused by the full livery yard (of course, that's very unlikely
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I know a woman who bought a horse 8 years ago as a foal, had it broken and someone hacked it out for her. Since I've known her (3 years now) she has only visited the yard twice!!!! The horse isn't being cared for properly. I have groomed it myself several times because it was so filthy that poo was stuck all over its back legs and making them sore. I had to use scissors to cut the hair away. I did tell her what I was doing and she gave me permission but I wish I could kick her up the ar$e and make her sell the poor thing or even have it PTS because is is NOT happy. I have fed and watered it many times because no-one else does and advised her to call a farrier to look at its overgrown hooves. It is a mess and it makes me so sad to see it this way when it has a lovely sweet nature and deserves better than this non-life it is living.
 
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That's one of the benefits of DIY...your horses recognise you as the bringer of food....so has to pretend to be nice to you in case you starve it
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It's easy to get round that though - mine is on part livery (i.e. I don't do any of the boring jobs I just groom and ride and clean tack etc) and I just request he isn't fed and put his feed in after I ride. So I get the bond and don't do the hard labour -bliss
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That's one of the benefits of DIY...your horses recognise you as the bringer of food....so has to pretend to be nice to you in case you starve it
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It's easy to get round that though - mine is on part livery (i.e. I don't do any of the boring jobs I just groom and ride and clean tack etc) and I just request he isn't fed and put his feed in after I ride. So I get the bond and don't do the hard labour -bliss
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Sneaky...but effective
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I always try to get someone else to worm mine just in case they turn vengeful too....
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I agree about buying horses and goods as a status symbol.We are all diy on our yard and excercise our horses 6 days a week and work part time at 45 Im probably the fittest I have ever been with 2 horses to look after(mine and daughters) .RE your comment on boots dont think bad of people who dont use them I went straight out and bought my horse a lovely set of boots for travelling i wanted to make sure he was completely safe and wouldnt knock his legs.The only problem being is he hates them and kicks out to shake them off.So now I look like a cheap skate because I use brushing boots to travel him in.
 
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I agree about buying horses and goods as a status symbol.We are all diy on our yard and excercise our horses 6 days a week and work part time

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Which is fine if you can afford that but many people work very hard so they can keep their horse and this often means not having the time to ride every day (particularly in the winter when it is dark so early).
 
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I agree about buying horses and goods as a status symbol.We are all diy on our yard and excercise our horses 6 days a week and work part time

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Which is fine if you can afford that but many people work very hard so they can keep their horse and this often means not having the time to ride every day (particularly in the winter when it is dark so early).

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And on top of that, some people don't want to ride 6 days a week. They have other stuff going on.

I can easily see how a "full livery" yard is a much more relaxed place for a horse to live than in a crazy busy DIY yard.

I like to think I matter to my horses but they have so many Aunties and Uncles. They would just as happily have them to look after them. So long as their home environment doesn't change they are happy
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The real tragedy is that many of the horses on yards are stabled 24/7 and very rarely get out. Horses are domesticated animals and as such for their physical and mental well being need to be hacked out. I always used to have two other people share my horse and that worked out perfectly as it was hacked out regularly and remained sane and sensible.

The reason people have so many problems with their horses is that they are not given sufficient gentle daily excercise in the form of hacking out.
 
I cant physically turn up Monday to Friday as I work long hours (I finished at half nine last night)

My horse is on DIY and I pay through the nose for him to be skipped out, hayed, fed and watered and looked after daily. I also pay for him to be lunged Twice a week and ridden once to keep him ticking over until I turn up at the weekends in my lorry and go for a lesson/compete. I know it is not ideal but I cant do anything else - I cant afford for him to be on schooling livery.

I love my horse and miss him in the week but I also could not afford to run him and compete and train etc etc if I didnt sacrifice seeing him in the week.

I get irritated by this....I have lots of DIY liveries tellling me that he should be out at grass and I should forget about him all winter. The reason he is on livery at a DIY yard is becasue he was on part livery and the YO stopped feeding him/didnt pick out feet etc. This way I control what he eats etc, and have people looking out for him. The kids on the yard go in and give him a brush in the week and everyone keeps an eye out for him.

I also borrow hay/feed/bedding occasionaly from people when my supplies have run out (actually the girl that does him does) as the merchants deliver on a Saturday only (actually, this never happens but she would lend me some if she had too)

Are you suggesting that I should sell him and go to a riding school? Or perhaps you would like to suggest an alternative option for us weekend riders?
 
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So you are saying that it's the same as owning a holiday house abroad, or a sports car for the summer.

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I'm not quite sure how what I said equates to this statement???! The last thing a horse is imilar to is a material object like a car or a house!

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Surely if there were not people having horses on full livery that don't go to see the animals from one month to the next (I have been one of these people in the past) doesn't mean that they don't care for it. I used to be in contact with my YO when I wasn't in the country at least 3 times a week to check they were all well. And the YO and groom were the ones who noticed when my horse wasn't well just slightly off colour, as they had contact with them every day and got to know their personalities. I think it is better this way as had I been a part or DIY'er my horse could have got to a stage of being far more ill because I wasn't on the yard all day to see it deteriorate, whereas they did as they knew the horse so well. So there are benefits in full livery for the horses welfare.

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I want to say categorically that I have absolutely no issue with full livery. My horse is in full livery, he gets fantastic care and it works brilliantly. However, whatever yard I am at, I could never leave my horse for months at a time - I'd rather sell him TBH. What is the point of that???

It may be that if you are at a particularly good yard you get exactly what you ask for and they are very much in touch with your horse's needs. However, as other posters have detailed, there are the cases when whilst he owner's back is turned, things go aray. It is my firm belief that whether in full livery or not the owner should be ultimately responsible for the horse. And I personally find it hard to understand how you can be absolutely sure you are taking that responsibility when you rarely see your horse.
 
Indeed. Plus, given how disparagingly novice owners on DIY are talked about on here at times, I would have thought people would be happy that at least the horse is being looked after by someone who knows what they're doing
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As long as horses are adequately cared for in terms of food, water, shelter/rugs, social needs and vet treatment, I don't care whether someone works/rides/visits their horse or not.
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I so agree with this. Do horses really care if they get worked or not?
I imagine some of you will class me the same as the people you are talking about. Hubby and I own a cob, a pony and four donkeys. Money is tight, but they all get what they need, icluding veterinary, EDT, farrier, worming, rugs etc. We just don't go overboard, they get what suits them. One donkey is old and retired (we just rescued her) the pony is out on loan, the other three donkeys and the cob are used when we can, sometimes maybe not for two weeks or so, but the vet, farrier, EDT and Donkey Sanctuary Inspector has said they are the happiest and friendliest animals they know, and all healthy. I'm happy with that. We do tend them daily at least.
 
we have one lady round here who has several horses yet leaves a trail of unpaid bills in her wake. Horses are 'seen to' daily, cared for, but to her they're more of a fashion statement (being large dressage horses) for her to show off about rather than pay the bill to the poor farrier who shod them all, or the feed store who fed them... makes me wonder how she sleeps at night
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she cannot afford to pay these bills yet can afford to swan off on holiday or to some large dressage comp.

It'll make alot of people's days when these people finally catch up with her
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Indeed. Plus, given how disparagingly novice owners on DIY are talked about on here at times, I would have thought people would be happy that at least the horse is being looked after by someone who knows what they're doing

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My aunt is on full livery for that very reason. But then she also bought a very experienced eventer/hunter to hack and learn on, so must be a terrible owner
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Sometimes it's the best way to learn about the areas of horse ownership that isn't taught at riding schools.
 
"And I personally find it hard to understand how you can be absolutely sure you are taking that responsibility when you rarely see your horse."

Because I bothered to check the yard out, got references from them to make sure it was the right yard with the right services for me. And yes it cost me a absolute fortune £140 per week per horse! but they were the horses that had taken me ages to find that were right for me and for the sake of me not seeing them too often whilst the company was really busy then yes full livery was the answer for me as I could guarantee it would take me longer than a year to find those horses again and they probably would have cost a lot more to buy a year later. I just think there are too many people being hard on full liveries. If someone on our yard pissed off one of my full liveries then unfortunately it would be that someone who would be asked to leave, a full livery pays for their horse to be cared for in the manner that they request and it is up to the YO to keep to that if they don't then the YO doesn't deserve to run a yard. But it is the Full Liveries that contribute the most to a lot of yards nowadays having the most up to date equipment on the yard to make the yard easier for the YO and staff, eg horse walker, lunge pen, outdoor/indoor school, washdown box, solarium. How many DIY only yards have all the most up to date equipment avalable to the liveries?
 
I agree with a number of comments:

Firstly- is it any of our business how other people keep their horses, we can't save/change the world and one of the big problems with the equine community (particularly at livery yards) is the extent that people get involved in other people's private lives and the bitchin!

Secondly- threads like this can be very discriminatory to people, like Chocolatelog, who have a horse that they clealy adore but which they only see twice a week because the rest of the time they are working their butts off to earn the money to make sure the horse is well looked after.

Finally- there are many ways to fry an egg.. we all have different ideas of what is right and wrong but at the end of the day as long as the horse is mucked out, fed and watered and allowed to stretch its legs then I don't think anyone has too much room to comment.

ps I am guilty cause I also have to work too hard and hate being away from my horse even for a day but have no choice so like other posters I take it a bit personally when people start shouting "neglect" cause they don't see an owner for a few days
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I have to say that the majority of owners on my yard turn up every day, rain or shine, depsite our Yard being mianly full Livery (around 20 horses) and 6 part livery.

Two owners sometimes do not give their horses the attention that they require, but I owuldnt say there is a horse that is unhappy or missing out. If the YO felt that the horses were not being cared for due to the owner they would have no qualms and telling them.

I keep Tyler on Full Livery due to university and work commitments but still see him once or twice a day (not saying he wants to see me that often, but he has no choice :P )

I do wonder, as a pecentage, how many horses are bought purely as a status sympbol as most poeple I speak to know someone who has a horse for that purpose!! So sad
 
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Theres a couple of people at my yard who's horse's are young 8-10 who havent really done anything. they dont even see the outside of the school. they never jump, lunge, hack out all they do is flat work schooling. their horses must be bored senseless

[/ QUOTE ]That sort of judgemental attitude really p*@@*s me off! You don't know the circumstances of these peaople and its none of your business! My mare is 9, I'm 48. I love her to bits, but I don't jump and I don't hack. She doesn't like it that much and I don't like it (admittedly the two are probably connected). I used to force myself to hack, but I have had a couple of bad accidents and I haven't hacked for a year. Maybe I never will, I don't miss it and I won't force myself to do it again. My interest is dressage, so my mare only works in the school. I also take her to one of two trainers at least once a week and we go to dressage competitions. She lives out April through November and comes into a barn at night for the winter (as she can't stand in a stable for health reasons).

Just to confirm how terrible I am, she is also kept on full Livery
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so of course she has no understanding of who I am and inevitably we have no bond. Except they are also poor assumptions, we have a fantastic relationship, I am down about 5 times a week and she won't be caught by anyone but me unless its tea time. for me she comes to call. She is a very happy, relaxed, contented mare. She schools very happily and shows no signs of being bored or stressed (she is only ridden by me or one of my trainer if the need arises)!

I really do urge you to think before you type or open your mouth with your intolerant assumptions!
 
Stella I see your point...however could hacking not be done by someone else?

Please dont bite my head off! But maybe if she does not like being in the school as you say in line 4 having someone help you to hack out
 
Well then I guess you are a lot more trusting than I. With the exception of the current full livery yard that I am, none of the past yards (full livery) would I trust to provide the same standards of care when I was there versus when I was away. I know this for example; I put my horse on full livery for a couple of weeks whilst I went on holiday (I normally did him DIY). When I returned from holiday, his water trough was dry as a bone, his fly sheet had been left on him the whole time and (previously new) was now a write-off. That and the bed being a tip. Who knows what else didn't get done?
I am not criticising full livery, as I have said before. What I am saying is that even if your horse is on full livery you have a duty to go there relatively frequently to check on it's welfare. Unless you are prepared to believe everything you are told over the phone that is??
 
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Well then I guess you are a lot more trusting than I. With the exception of the current full livery yard that I am, none of the past yards (full livery) would I trust to provide the same standards of care when I was there versus when I was away. I know this for example; I put my horse on full livery for a couple of weeks whilst I went on holiday (I normally did him DIY). When I returned from holiday, his water trough was dry as a bone, his fly sheet had been left on him the whole time and (previously new) was now a write-off. That and the bed being a tip. Who knows what else didn't get done?
I am not criticising full livery, as I have said before. What I am saying is that even if your horse is on full livery you have a duty to go there relatively frequently to check on it's welfare. Unless you are prepared to believe everything you are told over the phone that is??

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SO WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST YOU DO IF YOU HAVE NO OTHER OPTION?
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Steady on, no need to shout. If you have a horse that you see a few times a year or once a month then that is your choice. As I have stated, it is not a situation I would be comfortable with and I personally would not have a horse on these terms.
I am only stating my view.........so no need for the capital letters!
 
why do you consider being in a field left to waste is a problem? its waste in your opinion but sure the horse doesnt mind, what would it be doing in the wild, some horses can admittedly get bored (I have one like that) but the majority dont give a [****] and you are only speaking from human point of view.

Horses level of "going to waste" v human view, dont equate at all!!

As long as horses are looked after, who cares if they are caked in mud and chilling out with their mates?

I detect a hint of jealousy in your post? not sure why tho?
 
I would NEVER put my horse in a yard that I didn't completely and absolutely trust to look after him MUCH BETTER than I could do myself.

It took me months and months to find the beautiful stud/training yard where my stallion now lives - visiting heaven knows how many yards, and always finding some little tiny thing that I wasn't quite happy with.

When I went to visit Cliveden I knew I had found the perfect place. It is run by a BHSI and BE-Accredited trainer, who is also a qualified AI specialist with many years of stud-work experience. They treat Tobago as though he were their own most precious horse, and fuss and fret over him even more than I do.

An example (for all those who think that full livery cannot provide as good care as the owner): I ordered a lovely expensive leather headcollar for Tobago. When it arrived, two of the grooms immediately pounced on it and began examining every centimetre of it. They found a tiny raised bit on the inside of the cheek-piece where the nameplate was attached and one of them said "oooh - we'll have to file this down and smooth it before Tobago can wear it - it might scratch his little face!" The other groom agreed "for another horse it might be OK but not Tobago, he's so thin-skinned and sensitive"

They feed him three different types of top-quality hay/haylage every day, cos the stud manager found that he was more tempted to eat if he had a different type at each feed time. They spent 3 months painstakingly teaching him to graze (he thought grass was just for galloping on). They give him lots of affection and cuddles. They are always puzzling over him and psycho-analyzing him and trying to figure out how to keep him calm and content.

I frequently turn up unannounced - don't have a regular visiting day - and I have never once seen anything to give me the slightest anxiety.

The care they give him is, at a conservative estimate, about a hundred times better than a relative novice like me could ever hope to provide - and at least fifty times better than any DIYer I have ever met.

I have a beastly illness which means I am often unable to go and visit my horse - sometimes for weeks on end .

I'm sorry, but how dare you tell me that I am somehow being irresponsible or gullible or uncaring to leave my horse in such excellent and expert hands?
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Htobago - how much a month do you pay for your full livery? It is relevant and not just being nosy, by the way.
 
"I do agree that to have a horse on livery and hardly ever see it is crazy IMO. How can you have a relationship with a horse on those terms? And how can you meet your responsibility as an owner?"

Do you not realise that some people have to WORK very hard, have children also and cannot give time to their horses as they would wish, but those horses are cherished, happy and "bonded" just as adequately!

Personally I do mine as I rent a yard less than half a mile from home, I am very lucky, they get binned out in the morning very quickly having hayed field etc night before. I do them all myself with occasional emergency provision from mates if I have to stay away from home with work. I have an 8 year old child, and an OH to assist also.

However, if my situation were different then I would still have my horses and i would put them in full livery if that were my only option of having horses.

Horses bond very quickly and dont need you around every day to survive, you sound like you want the horse to have a human perspective, they simply dont!
 
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Horses bond very quickly and dont need you around every day to survive

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Absolutely! All the horses who board at my farm are very bonded with me and just because most of them haven't the faintest idea whom their owner is, doesn't seem to bother them one iota, because they have me to care for them every day.

Horses really do NOT think like humans and I struggle to understand people who have this bizarre concept firmly implanted in their minds. The horse does NOT care who feeds him and cares for him.
 
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