Why do some yards...

The old if your on full livery why bother having a horse thing really annoys me. My horse likes a routine. I'm sure he wouldn't appreciate me turning up at 1.30am to feed him and turn him out before work one week, then the next week turning up at 6am, then different the next etc. He also needs to be kept in full work due to an old injury and not just ridden on the days work allows.

I had 2 weeks off work recently and I loved being able to take care of him full time. But it would be unfair to him for me to except him to fit in around my erratic shift work.
 
Having worked on a Full Livery yard that was kind of obliged to keep on 1 woman with 2 DIY horses from previous ownership... I have to agree with Starzaan!

We did have her round the back in her own little corner beside the shavings boxes.... but she was right beside the outdoor school....

We would have all 40 odd boxes mucked out by 9.30, and then the 4 shavings boxes round the back done with the muck emptied onto the tractor and away by 10am at the latest... if liverys wanted to ride before then we tried to be very quiet and worked the tractor around them. But this woman would muck out and make the most noise ever, tie her horses outside eachother box and they would bicker and squeal and kick out and generally just make noise!

She sometimes didn't muck out till yon time, if she came onto the main yard she dragged shavings / **** all the way through it and didn't clean it up. 2 girls lived in a caravan on site just beside the outdoor school and she'd be up there till yon time with the floodlights on making a racket thus keeping them up.

Some liveries stayed late of course and noone grudged them that especially at weekends when they were up/out, but this woman was EVERY NIGHT, and annoyed other liveries.

The full liveries on the other hand were amazing! They were paying for a ful service but sometimes they'd help muck their box at the weekend, skip it out etc. I suppose so they could feel like they were caring for their horse themselves... and they were so tidy etc.

I would say I've always been a good DIY'r but id I'd had the money my horse would have been on full.
 
Starzaan said:
I don't offer DIY because

1) There's no money in it - earlier this year I closed my old yard of twenty two horses to move to a new premises. I had four DIYs and they were the ones constantly trashing fencing or stables. DIY is £30 a week, I could fill those boxes with full liveries at £150 a week.

2) I can't take the stress. Of the twenty two horses on the last yard, I had just four DIYs. They caused more hassle and stress than all the others put together. They were forever leaving a mess, doing stupid things like riding out from my yard with no reins on their bridle, because they had replaced them with draw reins (whic made me look bad), not turning up to see to their horses, dumping muck on the yard instead of on the muck trailer, feeding the laminitic pony haylage etc etc.

3) I have incredibly high standards, and I found it hard to have DIYs on the yard who were prepared to leave a box un-mucked out all day. That reflects badly on me when I'm showing prospective clients around, and they aren't to know that the box that is still filthy at 2pm is a DIY box.

4) For the above reasons, the lease on my new yard clearly states that we are to have no DIY liveries here.

I think I'd have a nervous breakdown if I had any more DIYs. I have nothing against them - I've been a DIY myself before! But in my opinion it just doesn't work if you're offering full and part livery as well. Yards that are solely DIY work well, but it's just not viable for me to offer it.

ETA - I wouldn't have my horses on full or part livery because I enjoy mucking them out etc. but my liveries either have high powered jobs in the city or abroad, and no time to muck out each day but still want to come and ride and spend time with their horses, have horses specifically for hunting and don't want to do any of the grunt work, need their horse re-schooled or sold, or have a horse recovering from injury or illness and don't have the experience to deal with it. I can see it from both sides now that I run my own yard.
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Why didn't you set firm rules and chuck off anyone who contravened them? I know what you mean about DIYers, I'm one and I'm appalled by many peoples' sheer laziness frankly, but it is up to the YO to set and therefore expect high standards surely? I wouldn't dream of leaving my horse's stable dirty but I know plenty of have the horse in for an afternoon and leave the resulting wet and muck for weeks. Similarly, we have a "rule" that the fields are poo-picked daily but no-one tells you how much you should be taking out. I spent one Christmas Day calculating that everone should remove a minimum of 1 barrow per week for horses out daytime only, and 2 for those turned out day and night, and I follow that myself (despite the fact my mare only produces 2 piles max when in at night), but looking at the state of the field I suspect other people are doing a fraction of that. Every so often YO threatens to charge us all extra to clean it up, but that doesnt go to the root of the problem and penalizes the few of us who do it properly. As YO knows little about horses they are never going to work this out for themselves and tell knew people what is expected of them. Give some people an inch and they really will take a mile.
 
I appreciate that some people need to have full livery due to work, kids etc, but I think there are also a lot of people who have it for other reasons.

I don't earn much but every spare penny I has goes into my ponies. I love the fact that they are happy and healthy, live in a clean field, with clean troughs, wear clean tack, eat out of clean buckets etc and that is ALL down to me :O)

If my pony shows any behavioral problems, its down to me. My friend has her TB on part livery and any issue the horse has, she blames the yard. Maybe it is something the yard are doing? Who knows, but I like 100% responsibility for my ponies at all times so I am always accountable.

If I was rolling in money I still wouldn't have part or full livery, I maybe would have more holidays and a new car :)
 
I'm DIY because I simply can't afford to be full livery (£650 at a nice nearby yard) plus I'm so lazy I fear I'd never see my horse were he being looked after by the yard :o

I don't wish to rock the boat, but regardless of DIY/full liveries, I think the YO is key. My last yard was without rules and the YO had regular explosions because something would go wrong and he'd then impose a set of stupid rules because in his words, he wanted to make life as difficult as possible for his liveries because one person had annoyed him. He lost money frequently because he didn't ask for deposits and people do flits. The last two had to call the police to get him to move his tractor away from the gate as he was refusing to let them leave. People didn't take care of the yard because othng had been looked after by the YO for twenty years.

I think contracts and a solid set of rules given at the start are essential and verbal/written warnings should be used. I'm a fab DIY livery, I clean up even if it's not my mess, but I would hate to be asked to be there or muck out by a certain time. I find that nonsense if it's not full livery.
 
She sometimes didn't muck out till yon time, if she came onto the main yard she dragged shavings / **** all the way through it and didn't clean it up. 2 girls lived in a caravan on site just beside the outdoor school and she'd be up there till yon time with the floodlights on making a racket thus keeping them up.
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Well if no-one told her not to turn up at 'yon' time, and didn't mention the clearing up and keeping the yard tidy - you can hardly moan about it........

Good grief. Some of these posts are simply ludicrous.
 
benson21 said:
I am a DIY on a mixed yard of DIY'ers and full liveries. I do not leave my pony in a dirty stable, I do not leave mess all over the yard, I dont dump muck anywhere other than the muck heap, I poo pick every week, my pony does not trash the field, or the fences. I am not saying that the full livery side is like this, but I think its unfair that its being generalised that DIY liveries are like this.
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I wasn't saying that all liveries were like that, just the ones on our yard that made us question why we did it and give up. Would have loved you on our yard by the sound of things.. Lets face it, it works both ways. There are threads on here with yard owners grumbling about liveries and there are threads with liveries grumbling about their yards. There are also yards where everyone is happy. Both the livery and the yard owner have to find what works for them.

Its not fair to criticise those that have their horses on full livery. If the horse is happy and they are, there is no problem. It just means that those with busy lives or problems in their lives know that the horse will be done whatever. Its like criticising people who don't compete enough, or ride every night etc. I have my own yard, but sent my horses on full livery while we went on holiday recently, and we were very tempted to let the whole yard out and keep them on full livery when we came back! I have worked with horses and done my life quota of looking after them!
 
I have rented out some grazing and having had a heated conversation with someone who thinks its OK for her ponies to have no water and very little grazing I can understand why YO's want control. She says she will leave asap, as I am obviously a nut, can not wait.
 
I am perfectly happy with my horse on full livery and would never contemplate DIY unless I was made redundant
 
benson21 said:
So you are basically saying that DIY'ers dont care for their horses properly are you?
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This!

All horses on our yard are wormed, according to the field worming regime. All fields are poo picked (as in cleared) daily. All horses are mucked out daily - most also skipped out before liveries leave and those on box rest are mucked out twice a day. No horses are left alone if they can't handle it. All horse-related damage is reported to YO and appropriate costs born by the respective liveries, if required. Fields are ragworted. Horses regularly see the dentist/vet/farrier as required. Everyone sweeps up outside their stables and tidies up/puts their tools/wheelbarrows, etc. away. We all sweep the hay and feed barn from time to time to keep it tidy and we all make sure the drains are kept swept to prevent the yard from flooding. All droppings are picked up - from walkways, school, yard and put on muck heap. Farriers are cleared up after.

Yard is pure DIY. I don't believe we're special or unique - just adults who like to keep the yard clean and tidy.

I have had my lovely boy on full, part, assisted and pure DIY livery and truly prefer to do it myself. Yes, sometimes it's a hassle to drag myself up to the yard for a second (or maybe a third) time when the weather's awful or I'm ill . . . but I get to check my boy over every day, spend time with him, find out what sort of night he's had based on the state of his box in the morning, know first-hand how much he is eating and drinking enough and whether or not he likes the hay or is turning his nose up.

P
 
honetpot said:
I have rented out some grazing and having had a heated conversation with someone who thinks its OK for her ponies to have no water and very little grazing I can understand why YO's want control. She says she will leave asap, as I am obviously a nut, can not wait.
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So you're renting out land to her - but have run short of grazing, and provide no water?:confused:
 
cinnamontoast said:
I would hate to be asked to be there or muck out by a certain time. I find that nonsense if it's not full livery.
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Agree with this. Our yard has no hours . . . there's a locked gate which only liveries have the access code to, but we can come and go as we please as long as we lock up after ourselves . . . and as long as unmucked out stables are swept up outside and the door shut, you can muck out whenever you like - it's all down to keeping the yard tidy . . . which comes down to good manners.

I do think that a well-maintained yard (by YO) prompts liveries to take good care of the place themselves . . . our YO is forever cutting the grass, mending and sealing fences, using the blower to tidy up some of the communal areas, etc. and it does prompt the rest of us to do our bit by sweeping up.

P
 
SpottyFalula said:
I appreciate that some people need to have full livery due to work, kids etc, but I think there are also a lot of people who have it for other reasons.
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Does it matter? We are all free to enjoy our hobby in whichever way we please. If that means you want your horse on full livery, so be it.

Who are any of us to judge?

And being a financial martyr doesn't make one a good owner.............
 
I rent my own stables and grazing for my 3 horses....I really worry that if for some reason my landlady sold up or whatever I would be forced back onto livery and would not be able to find anywhere that allows DIY.

My horses are my horses.....oddly enough I like turning them out at 6am, mucking them out - making sure they are well looked after etc etc.

I used to be on a DIY livery- the YO really appreciated me keeping my area tidy, sticking to the rules and looking after my horses -I was there 5 years. Some of the others were nightmares though and I can understand why she got stressed. I only left there because my own yard came up for rent- I would go back, but now she's stopped doing DIY for all the reasons YO's have mentioned.:(
 
threads like this make me realise just how lucky i am :) I am on a small yard with just 5 horses in totally we are all diy and only pay £20 but the yard manager is the yard owner daughter and she is lovely she turns out for me in the winter and brings in so my mare isnt on her own in the dark she does this for everyone on the yard and she runs her business from there so is on sight from 7.30-3.30 maybe 4 honeslty i couldnt ask for any better everyone is really lovely and no nasty horses :) she also has a trailer and takes me to shows with her mare it really is great and a very pretty yard with no mud :) xx
 
Lol, I keep mine at DIY (£15 pw!!!) but there's only two of us so works really well, espeically in winter, one throws out in the morning and does their own jobs, other comes up at night, does jobs and brings them all in :D YO is an amazingly nice older lady who only really comes up in the Summer to care to the gardens or bring us Xmas pressies !!! So so lucky.

As there's only two of us - if the barn is a mess and you've cleaned up its obvious who the lazy one is no excuses :p

BUT if I was to have my own place then I'd probably offer full time livery as again like people say ... I get a bit OTT when it comes to standards :D
 
i also think that some people who keep there horses on full livery may as well go to a riding school and point to a horse and say "thats mine" as they never seem to form a bond as they are never there!! x
 
AJ & Kiz said:
i also think that some people who keep there horses on full livery may as well go to a riding school and point to a horse and say "thats mine" as they never seem to form a bond as they are never there!! x
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Cleaning up muck does not create a bond with a horse... seeing that usually the horse isn't even present to watch :rolleyes:

I don't offer DIY livery because it is not financially viable.
 
AJ & Kiz said:
i also think that some people who keep there horses on full livery may as well go to a riding school and point to a horse and say "thats mine" as they never seem to form a bond as they are never there!! x
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Don't be silly, of course they do! Don't you think William Fox Pitt has a bond with his horse? Bet he doesn't spend hours a day with each one...
 
My horse was pretty much on full livery last winter, I just came up and did rugs/ feed last thing at night. I thought it was amazing for our bond and she's never worked so hard over a winter. Plenty of time for a full groom, a serious schooling session and plenty of hugs and scratches afterwards. I'm sure she prefered that to me dragging her in from the field, ignoring her whilst I muck out etc and then finding that I'm out of time and can't ride. Will be doing the same this winter.
 
AJ & Kiz said:
i also think that some people who keep there horses on full livery may as well go to a riding school and point to a horse and say "thats mine" as they never seem to form a bond as they are never there!! x
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Again, some of these posts are simply beyond stupid.
 
I am on assisted as I work 13 hour shifts over the weekend and simply don't have the time to do mucking out at 11pm at night. My YO wont do pure DIY - she provides the hay, she buys it in and sells it per hay net and she buys in shavings by the pallet and we split the cost between liveries (shes not making a profit on these only covering the costs) - I love that arrangement as it means I don't have to source hay, or go get shavings. I think its so she can have the yard organized - she doesn't have 5 bails of hay for different horses lying around, isn't bothered by people delivering shavings all the time and the yard is kept tidier as a result. All horses are on a schedule for farrier too, and she arranges it and reminds us to leave the money. She turns everyone out in the morning and charges a reasonable rate for daily full livery if we need it. Its an ideal set up for me really and allows me to keep my horse on DIY and commit to working hours without having him on full livery.

Its the kind of service I would want to run if I were a YO. I have friends who are pure DIY and they are up early to turn out and the YO has nothing to do with the horses - I wouldnt like that - I am glad my YO is on site and looks after the horses interests, that way I know hes very well looked after - but hes still my horse and I make the decisions regarding his health and wellbeing :)

I was on full livery for years before I went DIY and I have to say I have noticed a difference in my bond with my horse since going DIY - he was very grumpy with me whenever he saw me as I think he associated me with work while associating staff with turnout and dinner - since moving to DIY, he is much more relaxed, happier to see me and just generally a more pleasant boy, little things I notice, like he will follow me around the school while I poo pick and he just seems to want to be with me more - so I would have to say that DIY does form a stronger bond for us anyway
 
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I think this thread is getting a little bit heated :p

It really is each to their own and I couldn't care less about why people have their horses on full livery.

I go to the yard everyday, do all my jobs, spend quality time with my ponies. My favorite is poo picking. I love being followed around by my inquisitive boy, who tries to help... had many a laugh in the field with no one else around!

I have grass livery so my ponies see me do everything. I talk to them all the time as the yard is small and they can pretty much see me where ever I am. I love when they come over to meet me when I pull in the gate, or whinny as I leave. I know everything about my ponies, what they have eaten, I can see their droppings and check their health, know what lumps/bumps/cuts are new. Can someone on full livery get a bond like that with their horses?
 
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amymay you are stupid dear! i put "SOME" not all. I have done full livery for someone in the past and never again, absolutely everything was left to me and when a horse needed the vet the owner was no where to be seen!! and to form a bond with a horse you need TIME which a lot of people who keep their horse on full livery dont have!! x
 
AJ & Kiz said:
amymay you are stupid dear! i put "SOME" not all. I have done full livery for someone in the past and never again, absolutely everything was left to me and when a horse needed the vet the owner was no where to be seen!!
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Perhaps because the horse was on............................

































............................. FULL LIVERY????????
 
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