Why do some yards...

Billie1007 said:
Starzaan - where the heck is your yard and have you any spaces? :o

Can you post a link to your other thread as I haven't seen the pics of said heavenly yard!
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Haha, if you click on the link above you can see photos of the yard there. If you can't see them I shall post them for you.

We're between Cirencester and Tetbury in Gloucestershire, and currently do have a couple of boxes available.

Incidentally, there is a Great Dane snoring on my feet. He's snoring so loudly that my teeth are rattling.
 
Gollum - brilliant name for a Great Dane!

Gosh it looks beautiful - I suggest you pick it up and place it in Bedfordshire - preferably 3 minutes from my house. Sigh.
 
DIY is a lot like HHO...

Most people are nice, helpful and respectful of others; gives advice when asked and tries to support others when they are having problems with their horse. Then there is the odd one who becomes a know it all and tries to take charge and ruins the nice atmosphere.

I have been a good DIY, but I like Full Livery - my horses have a good routine whilst I enjoy having horses and a time consuming but rewarding career.
 
Billie1007 said:
Gollum - brilliant name for a Great Dane!

Gosh it looks beautiful - I suggest you pick it up and place it in Bedfordshire - preferably 3 minutes from my house. Sigh.
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I shall do my best! He was called Gollum purely because he was such a hideously ugly puppy...he's still not terribly pretty now.

And Renvers, that is genius.
 
Honey08 said:
I thought you need some pictures of the actual stable yard - its all pics of the fields and drive...
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Thank you Honey08, will definitely be taking some more of the yard. There are a couple in there - which were sneakily taken when we first took on the yard, to avoid showing the hideous pony height docks that were growing in it! We're still re-painting, but as soon as that's finished we plan to take lots more photos of the yard.
We closed down our old yard in May, and as this was lying empty for years (as was our lovely cottage, goodness knows why, people are clearly mad!) we had a LOT of clearing up to do! We're almost there now, and almost full already having only opened our doors officially last month, but I must admit that I am having dreams about painting gates and matching colours....
 
Starzaan your yard sounds wonderful and how a yard should be run giving the livery peace of mind that their pride and joy is being well cared for. But you are just one and we cannot all come to you sadly.

Renters I hope you are not referring to my post because like livery yards HHFORUM users are all different, I do like to think about all the reasons and not just stand on the side lines and watch for fear of repercussions for my open mindedness.
 
Starzaan said:
For instance - every horse has a blackboard on their stable door stating their name, age, owner's number, field name and any special requirements (haylage only, must wear overreach boots when out etc.), all headcollars are named, fields are all named and we have a map in the tack room showing and naming each field, feeds are all written on the feed board, and each horse has a "file" in the tack room in a filing cabinet which contains their passport, a photgraph, a copy of the owner's livery contract, a list of all their belongings, a record of shoeing, dentist, saddler etc. so that if I was in a car crash tomorrow, I could ring a horsey friend or freelance groom and know that they could cope without me being there.
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Yes we are all different - and personally I would find the above really impersonal - if anything happened to me my friends/other liveries know about my turn out arrangements, who my vet/farrier is and most know who my next of kin is - because we are friends. i owuldn't like to be at such an effecient yard if it takes the heart out of it (not saying that is what your yard is like Starzann) but i have been at a very efficient yard and felt like I had to make an appointment just to stroke my horse - let alone actually ride him. Lucky what suits one person doesn't suit another xx
 
putasocinit said:
Starzaan your yard sounds wonderful and how a yard should be run giving the livery peace of mind that their pride and joy is being well cared for. But you are just one and we cannot all come to you sadly.

Renters I hope you are not referring to my post because like livery yards HHFORUM users are all different, I do like to think about all the reasons and not just stand on the side lines and watch for fear of repercussions for my open mindedness.
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Thank you very much. I wanted to open my own yard after being forced to put my mare onto full livery while I was working away. I could only take one horse with me, and couldn't leave my mare (who is unrideable now due to blindness) alone at home, so put her on grass livery where she would be checked twice a day etc. However, she got puss in the foot, and I had to put her on full livery for a month while it sorted itself out. That was horrible. I know she probably didn't give a toss, but I found it really hard not knowing if she was being cuddled and told how beautiful she is as much as I think she should be every day!

I want owners to be happy leaving their horses with me, knowing that I care for them as if they were my own, and that even if it means me being out of pocket, I will always go over and above to make sure the horses in my care are happy and in fabulous condition.
 
putasocinit said:
Renters I hope you are not referring to my post because like livery yards HHFORUM users are all different, I do like to think about all the reasons and not just stand on the side lines and watch for fear of repercussions for my open mindedness.
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Putasocinit - no not referring to you - just my experience of being on DIY yards, most people are lovely but there is always someone who feels they can judge others on riding/mucking out/grooming abilities
 
I'm not overly keen on being on full livery - I feel like a bit of a spare part and spend less time with my horse than they do. However my health is not brilliant and my big, young mare is clearly thriving in the structure and work so I will have to live with it.

Paula
 
EllenJay said:
Yes we are all different - and personally I would find the above really impersonal - if anything happened to me my friends/other liveries know about my turn out arrangements, who my vet/farrier is and most know who my next of kin is - because we are friends. i owuldn't like to be at such an effecient yard if it takes the heart out of it (not saying that is what your yard is like Starzann) but i have been at a very efficient yard and felt like I had to make an appointment just to stroke my horse - let alone actually ride him. Lucky what suits one person doesn't suit another xx
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Oh I agree entirely. All my liveries know that they can pop up at any time to see their horses. They do belong to them after all! The only reason I have such detail everywhere is because that's how I like it. It gives me piece of mind knowing that if the worst were to happen I could ring a friend to do the horses and they would know who everyone was and where they lived. I'm talking about worst case scenario - myself, my OH and my groom all in a tragic cow rustling accident or something.

I would hate for my liveries to feel that the yard is impersonal. They all know they can bang on the door and demand tea and cake whenever they like, and that they can pop up and see their horses at any time day or night. The horses I look after don't belong to me, I'm very clear about that. If someone wants me to paint their horse's feet pink every day, as long as it doesn't cause harm, I'll do it.
 
starzann do you have set times when your owners can ride up to a certain time at night after which the yard is closed?
 
Within reason owners can ride whenever they like. I don't see why I should be prepared to get up at 3am to get a horse ready for cubbing, but not be prepared to go out at 9pm to tack a horse up for someone. As I said before, as long as it doesn't harm the horse, then I'll do it. If I'm not going to be around, then I leave a note in the diary so that if anyone pops up unannounced they know I'm not just asleep in the bath!
But basically no, people can ride their horses whenever the wish.
 
I have been on both full and diy livery and tbh went diy because i didnt like the standards of care, or the standards of forage being provided on full livery.
The level of care stated wasnt what was provided, and i wasnt prepared to drop my standards to theres, some might call me to fussy, but thats tough, my horses deserve the best. I left to go DIY but again, feed got nicked, tack went missing and the place was regularly a tip with poor standards of care by some and good by others, ive got my own place now and can keep my own high standards and that suits me just fine
 
Yard I used to be on only offered full livery in winter (grass only in summer) partly because YO had prev bad experiences with DIY and partly because it was also a RS and she liked there to be a routine of all horses going out, coming in and being fed together at same time so that it was done and she didn't want DIY people turning up at random times to mess with that. Still ended up bringing my own horse in and feeding and haying him most nights anyway cos I was usually about at that time anyway but was nice to have the option of someone else doing him if I couldn't be there (and turning out in a morning was a godsend as I could not have done that at the time). Only thing YO wasn't keen on letting you do yourself was mucking out, again because she'd had problems with people either not mucking out well enough or going overboard on bedding (stables had rubber mats so didn't need massive beds) although I did occasionally end up doing mine among others when the regular guy was away. Am on DIY now though and for the most part enjoy the freedom. Do worry when I oversleep or get stuck at work though (thankfully some of the other liveries are perfectly happy to do the odd bring in / turn out if needed)
 
Starzaan I am SERIOUSLY envious! Can I be your virtual livery with my scruffy bog pony :D

I have always been a DIYer, (apart from last year when I did my back in and was seriously let down by my yard) and like being able to have full control over my boys day to day care. However I recently moved to a yard where the minimum is Assisted DIY where he is fed and turned out/brought in at both ends of the day. I have to say it is very useful having this although I still forget sometimes and turn up to ride in the evening to find he's been turned out!

I think that because I have worked as a WP/groom on competition, racing and livery yards I have more of an idea of what it's like for the YO, hence being really concious about clearing up after myself (although I am a bit scatty and tend to leave things in odd places - like spurs next to the kettle :o) and there are things that I enjoyed doing on the yards that I still do when I can - like throwing the muck heap back (perhaps, Starzaan, you can share my happiness when it comes to a nicely squared off muck heap!) and other things around the yard.

My YO does offer services and is happy to do things on short notice, which is useful as I have health problems. I also am happy that I can trust her to do things the way I want them done - well apart from my bed as no-one does that as well as me! ;)
 
My horse is on what's probably considered part livery. There are no boxes, horses live out 24/7 in paddocks with shelters. The deal is that for $60 a week, my horse gets fed every day, rugs changed if needed, and we get the use of the arena, jumps paddock, hot water and storage area. Owners live onsite, and check the horses regularly, so I would be informed and the vet called if needed. I visit everyday, sometimes twice, but there are times when I can't get up for a few days but I know the ponio is being taken care of.

All of the horses are kept under this same rule- that means they are all fed by the same time each day, be it weekend or weekday.

I take care of farrier/dentist/physio, and we have a big whiteboard that we write these times down on just so that everyone is kept in the loop. I also choose what to feed. When it's worming time, everyone worms at the same time!

It's a pretty casual place, but I would NEVER leave a mess. It's a beautiful property, and it's not mine, so I take care of it, because the owners have worked hard and spent the money setting it up. My dream is to have a property like that, and I would die a little inside if people disrespected the privilege being offered. :p

The last place I was at, there were only 2 of us with our horses being fed, as they were in private paddocks. The rest of the horses were in a group paddock, and were fed whenever the owners felt like it. This meant that whenever someone turned up, this mob would fly down and mill around in the hopes it wa their turn to be fed, because they had no routine.
 
ribbons said:
Yard politics, squabbles, fall outs and sometimes downright nastiness. Enough to cure anyone of running a DIY yard.
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But that reads to me that only DIY'ers cause squabbles, falling outs and nastiness! Believe me, full liveries can be just as nasty! We have a mixture of full and DIY, the last lot of unrest on the yard was because a DIY'er (me!!) had left a bucket of water by the water tank, and a Full Livery didnt like it there!
 
I've only ever been on DIY, but if I could afford it, I'd have mine on an only full livery yard.
I think the horses benefit from routine, all being fed etc at the same time each day. Don't mind mucking out and doing yard jobs at all, but it would be great just to focus on the horses instead.

There are some lovely DIY'ers but do agree that for many YO's they can be a PITA and if I had my own yard, it'd be a full livery only.
 
I’m a YO and DIY is the last thing I would want on my yard for a multitude of reasons including:

The yard is my home therefore I feel I’m entitled to decide how I want it run/managed. DIY liveries don’t walk out of their house and have to look at any mess they may have left but I do.

DIY liveries take up more space – they require storage space for they feed (and bedding and forage if not supplied by YO). We have one feed room for all feed, one area of storage for forage and one for bedding. Liveries can see at a glance on the feed chart what their horse is feed and can discuss any alterations with us.

As we control the worming programme we know it’s being implemented – whilst I’m sure many DIY liveries adhere to the stipulated programme on a yard I have heard of those that won’t/lie about doing so.

Our fields have to be carefully managed as we are in a very wet part of the country - if we need to carry out work in a field it’s much easier for us to move horses etc without waiting for liveries to come and move them allowing us to do what we have to.

As many DIY liveries work they obviously have to do their horses before and after work thus making for a much longer day that clients are potentially on the yard by the time they have mucked out and ridden, this disturbs other horses not just that liveries own horse/s. It also means more people around early/late in the day which can disturb my family and dogs and also makes keeping the yard secure more problematic. We feed and catch in just after 7am each day and do a final check and lock up main gate around 9.30pm which allows us to have a routine in our lives too. If liveries are leaving early to go to a show we get up early to accommodate them obviously.

However above all of these the main reasons I do not want DIY is because it means there is no set routine for the horses. Others may disagree but in my experience horses thrive on a routine and I can honestly say we never have any problems with new arrivals settling – they take their cues from the horses already on the yard and settle very quickly. All are fed at regular times and we have rarely have colics. All the horses at grass come in each morning and checked over and my staff and I are about all day so any problems are spotted quickly and appropriate action is taken – with the best will in the world horses belonging DIY liveries who work would not have such a careful eye on them.

As with all types of liveries there are good and bad, knowledgeable or not so knowledgeable (and the downright ignorant) and as a YO it isn’t my job to be superior, it’s my job to look after client’s horses as I would if they were my own – that’s what they pay me for!

From reading this thread I am even more convinced that DIY wouldn’t work for me – I think it requires a different style of management and it seems to me yards are probably best to be entirely DIY or entirely non DIY, mixing the two seems to be fraught with problems. Finally we all know the horse world is full of conflicting opinions on how things should be done and these differences often seem to come to a head on DIY yards (or internet forums!).

On my yard things are done my way – it may not be the way everyone would do them but it works for me, my clients and our horses. All seem happy and I can honestly say we have no problems with liveries arguing etc and we all get on as friends too which is a bonus:)
 
Fair enough, each to their own. Obviously I am standing up for the DIY liveries here, as I said earlier on in this thread, I do keep the yard tidy, just as much, if not more than the full liveries, my pony is done regularly and is in a good routine, my part of the field where we are fenced of due to lami, is poo picked 3 times a week, which again is more regular than the fulls. He is wormed at the same time as the fulls, there are the same amount of falling outs between the fulls and the DIY'ers, and, as we are DIY and have to do everything ourselves, we are not demanding of the YO/YM.
If people want to be fulls for their reasons, fair enough, but I dont see the reasoning to treat the DIY'ers as the second class customers.
 
I have been on all types of yard over the years.

The only yard that has not been bitchy/nasty is the one that offered Part/Full only.
Whenever there has been DIY offered, it all gets a bit testy.

It seems the freedom that DIYers have causes friction. The I want this field/I'm not turning out with that horse/That's not my mess, I'm not sweeping it mentality that seems to occur.
 
EventingMum said:
I’m a YO and DIY is the last thing I would want on my yard for a multitude of reasons including:

The yard is my home therefore I feel I’m entitled to decide how I want it run/managed. DIY liveries don’t walk out of their house and have to look at any mess they may have left but I do.
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This is always assuming two things - that the DIY liveries have left a mess, we're not all irresponsible, lazy slobs . . and that the YO's house is right in the middle of the yard - my YO lives on-site, but on the opposite side of the (large) car park separated by a large fence/hedge - he and his family have enough of a life outside the yard not to be worrying about the odd strand of straw not swept up.

DIY liveries take up more space – they require storage space for they feed (and bedding and forage if not supplied by YO). We have one feed room for all feed, one area of storage for forage and one for bedding. Liveries can see at a glance on the feed chart what their horse is feed and can discuss any alterations with us.
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Fair enough on space . . . but as a DIYer I already know what my horse is being fed b/c I buy it and give it to him ;). While you're making generalizations about DIYers I think it's worth pointing out that a friend of mine moved her horse from a full livery set up to DIY b/c the YO changed her horse's feed without discussing it with her.

As we control the worming programme we know it’s being implemented – whilst I’m sure many DIY liveries adhere to the stipulated programme on a yard I have heard of those that won’t/lie about doing so.
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I would argue that MOST DIY liveries adhere to the stipulated worming programme . . . there are ways of making sure it's done, including egg counts, even on a DIY yard. The assertion that DIYers are somehow less worried about their horses' health is anathema.

Our fields have to be carefully managed as we are in a very wet part of the country - if we need to carry out work in a field it’s much easier for us to move horses etc without waiting for liveries to come and move them allowing us to do what we have to.
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As good grazing is at a premium on this overcrowded isle of ours, I suspect you're not alone in having to manage your grazing carefully . . . and effective grazing management isn't restricted to full livery yards. We manage to apply weed killer and fertilizer with YO's help with little fuss - he simply puts a note on the board saying "fields being done X day, please move your horses to the temporary/allocated fields on Y day" and it's done. Not difficult.

As many DIY liveries work they obviously have to do their horses before and after work thus making for a much longer day that clients are potentially on the yard by the time they have mucked out and ridden, this disturbs other horses not just that liveries own horse/s. It also means more people around early/late in the day which can disturb my family and dogs and also makes keeping the yard secure more problematic. We feed and catch in just after 7am each day and do a final check and lock up main gate around 9.30pm which allows us to have a routine in our lives too. If liveries are leaving early to go to a show we get up early to accommodate them obviously.
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First, horses quickly become accustomed to ANY routine and ours know that first up in the morning feeds the whole yard - that way all get fed at the same time in the morning . . . and then they all settle back down for a post-breakfast snooze until their owners arrive to turn them out. Nobody weaves or stresses - the whole lot of them just chill. My own horse, who can be a proper stresshead, is quite happy for other horses to be turned out before him and knows roughly when to expect me - how I don't know. Second, wouldn't you like to not be up at sparrow's fart and then not to bed until late? Liveries can be trusted to open up and lock up . . . while our yard is ridiculously secure (based on the number of gates and double locks and alarms it's like Fort Knox) but we have an "any hours" policy and YO relies on the liveries to open up the yard in the morning and lock up last thing at night. We've never had the yard left unlocked - after all it's our horses and equipment we are protecting by locking up. We are obviously respectful of the fact that we need to drive past YO's house on the way in and out, but he and his family and his two dogs seem to cope just fine.

However above all of these the main reasons I do not want DIY is because it means there is no set routine for the horses. Others may disagree but in my experience horses thrive on a routine and I can honestly say we never have any problems with new arrivals settling – they take their cues from the horses already on the yard and settle very quickly. All are fed at regular times and we have rarely have colics. All the horses at grass come in each morning and checked over and my staff and I are about all day so any problems are spotted quickly and appropriate action is taken – with the best will in the world horses belonging DIY liveries who work would not have such a careful eye on them.
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Completely agree that horses thrive on routine - and the horses on our yard all have one . . . they are all fed together in the morning, and then all the horses know when to expect what from their owners every single day . . . each horse knows when it's going out, who it's fieldmates will be, when it will come in, when it will get its tea and be put to bed. Because there is always someone on the yard from about 6.30 a.m. until 9.30 p.m. (liveries) there is always someone with an eye out . . . I found out GD had broken his stable windows from a fellow livery who put him out in the field for me and picked up all the glass she could see both ourside and inside the stable before ringing me at 7 a.m. People have noticed escaped horses, missing feeds/hay, potential colic, symptoms of a bean in the sheath and acted accordingly and appropriately.

As with all types of liveries there are good and bad, knowledgeable or not so knowledgeable (and the downright ignorant) and as a YO it isn’t my job to be superior, it’s my job to look after client’s horses as I would if they were my own – that’s what they pay me for!
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Just as there are all types of liveries, there are also all types of YOs . . . and I don't recall anyone implying that you (or any other full livery YO on here) were somehow perceived as superior . . . and, yes, it's your job to look after your liveries' horses as though you were then own . . . but just as some DIYers don't look after their own horses they way YOs would like, some full YOs/managers don't always look after other people horses the way the liveries would like. There's no wrong or right here . . .

From reading this thread I am even more convinced that DIY wouldn’t work for me – I think it requires a different style of management and it seems to me yards are probably best to be entirely DIY or entirely non DIY, mixing the two seems to be fraught with problems. Finally we all know the horse world is full of conflicting opinions on how things should be done and these differences often seem to come to a head on DIY yards (or internet forums!).
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This I completely agree with . . . I wouldn't want to be on a yard that mixed full with DIY. Recipe for disaster IMHO. But I can't agree that full is better . . . in the same way that I wouldn't say that DIY is better either. Depends on the horse, the owner, the yard environment and a whole host of other things.

On my yard things are done my way – it may not be the way everyone would do them but it works for me, my clients and our horses. All seem happy and I can honestly say we have no problems with liveries arguing etc and we all get on as friends too which is a bonus:)
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And this is how it should be . . . your yard, your rules. Works for DIY too, though ;).
 
This is a very interesting thread. I can see both sides. As a yard owner, there is no way I would do DIY unless it was for someone I had previously had for a number of years as a full or part livery and for the sole reason of helping them over some financially hard times. The reasons are financial and also for the well being of the horses. However, if I were a livery, I would want to be on DIY. In fact, I would hate me as a full/part livery. :D
 
I've been on supposed full livery and am now on assisted DIY and I am more than happy :D

I think if you have a YO with a similar lovely attitude as Starzaan then you're onto a winner and regardless of type of livery it will be a lovely place to be. YO sets the tone ;)
YO on old yard (full livery) became lazy and crap and was more interested in making money than caring for horses whilst forgetting that was how she was making her money. I ended up paying for full livery but doing DIY :rolleyes: They also didn't check fences (which were often cut barb wire sections by local yoofs) and my boy ended up having staples as they told me not to get the vet out as he was fine while I was away, it then happened again and he ended up having a skin graft...hence the move...

New (been there a year lol) yard is DIY with a strict routine, horses go in and out at set times, certain cleaning rules are enforced, opening hours are long enough and flexible. I don't mind putting the ned on full livery if needed or paying for services as our YO goes waaay beyond the call of duty (got a call yesterday as she was worried he'd started dragging his toes, he's on box rest atm). She will do anything as needed and any visitors always remark how happy the horses are and its true. Last time ned was on full livery our YO even managed to make him a less messy boy in his stable, made us a treat ball filling thingy and added extra haynet tie points as him next door neighbour kept pinching his haylage - the lady is awesome :D

Ned happy = me happy

I appreciate it is after all a business so not all yards will offer DIY/Full depending on how they want to operate, thats their choice and as long as we all get a good service at a reasonable price then brilliant :)
 
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Wowzas! Barely ever make a thread that gets actually off the ground!!! lol. Some really interesting ready on both sides!! :)
 
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