Why do they continue to breed in Ireland???

[jcwh]

seeing the number of horses for sale at prices like €190 for an average horse that could cost up to €1500.
and even WELL BRED competition horses (1m) with winnings and genuine sales for €1000 - €2000 really why do people keep breeding horses in Ireland?
why why why? and those homebred ''my first pony mare to my neighbors stallion'' thing.

dont people see that they should stop? if you're breeding top class, perhaps go on. but just because your mare is ''pretty'' and your friend has a stallion doesnt mean that you should breed horses to sell!

im so tired of seeing foals and young'uns on the market for peanuts really, and then the phrase ''if not sold - to slaughter''

-ok rant over. but seriously. STOP INDISCRIMINATE BREEDING!

 

[Jennyharvey]

Because they are stupid and irresponsible. There is such a huge problem here with so many horses, yet some people still believe its ok to breed more. Its crazy. The ones who are gonna suffer are the poor horses. Unfortunately, if horses are still seen as something to be used and abused by people, people will still see them as expendable.
All you have to do is visit a market and sales, to see all the poor animals suffering because of humans.

 

[Rowreach]

Okay, there is a lot of indiscriminate, frankly irresponsible and sometimes accidental breeding that goes on over here (and by "here" I mean the whole of the island of Ireland before the pedants start on me again ), but another problem is that those with decent horses have really cut back or stopped breeding, which means that at some point there is going to be a massive hole in the market.

At this time of year my vet is usually coming into his flat out busy period with mare work, yet he has practically nothing on this year.

And as for the "average" horse selling for €190, I struggle to find the average, RC type horse which most of my clients are after - mostly because having bred them, nobody puts the time and effort into producing them. My usual client has between €3k and €5k to spend if only they can find the right horse.

And rather than just having a go at the Irish, bear in mind please that indiscriminate breeding is going on the world over

 

[Jennyharvey]

I agree with above poster. Its not only here that people breed irresponsibly. i guess its just that ireland has been in the media a lot with this issue recently, wheras its not an issue just confined to ireland.

 

[MissJael]

What a narrow minded opinion you hold - Ireland are not entirely responsible for the breeding of horses, the rest of the world tends to produce horses too.

 

[FairyLights]

yes,its not only Ireland. The people next to me have let their 3 yr old colt run out with his dam and a filly. They are suprised they are expecting foals this spring. Unbelievable.

 

[Noodlebug]

I agree with Kat55546 and very glad my Irish horse was bred as he is wonderful!!!

 

[Spins]

What a narrow minded opinion you hold - Ireland are not entirely responsible for the breeding of horses, the rest of the world tends to produce horses too.

i completely agree with this.. the price of horses has gone down everywhere and i dont know any site where the "average" is 190e unless its for pony foals. Also just because they are cheap in Ireland doesnt mean they're any worse than all the horses that are being bred and sold in Britain or anywhere else in Europe. In fact, alot of irish horses are sold for a CONSIDERABLE mark up when they reach Britain because the quality of irish horses is renowned the world over. The arse has fallen out of the market no matter what breeding your horse has its price has gone down considerably.

I think that what you have said is an ill-informed attack on Irish breeders and i do recognise that there is indiscrimminate breeding going on it is being addressed. The horses in Dunsink are just one example of how people are being informed and taught about how to manage horses. I am immensely proud of the horses who come out of Ireland and i think you'll be hard pushed to find someone who will complain about getting a bargain on a well bred horse due to the fact irish breeders have fallen on hard times at the moment!

Sorry for the essay but this really annoyed me.

 

[ashlingm]

i completely agree with this.. the price of horses has gone down everywhere and i dont know any site where the "average" is 190e unless its for pony foals. Also just because they are cheap in Ireland doesnt mean they're any worse than all the horses that are being bred and sold in Britain. In fact, alot of irish horses are sold for a CONSIDERABLE mark up when they reach Britain because the quality of irish horses is renowned the world over. The arse has fallen out of the market no matter what breeding your horse has its price has gone down considerably.

I think that what you have said is an ill-informed attack on Irish breeders and i do recognise that there is indiscrimminate breeding going on it is being addressed. The horses in Dunsink are just one example of how people are being informed and taught about how to manage horses. I am immensely proud of the horses who come out of Ireland and i think you'll be hard pushed to find someone who will complain about getting a bargain on a well bred horse due to the fact irish breeders have fallen on hard times at the moment!

Sorry for the essay but this really annoyed me.

I think the above poster has hit the nail on the head.

I think the OP is being extremely narrow minded and to be frank, quite ignorant of the whole equine situation in Ireland. Ireland has always been know the world over for producing world class highly athletic horses and this has also been reflected on their price both at home and abroad.

However, unfortunately, Ireland has also been hit very hard by the recent economic problems and this has in turn had an effect on many of our horses. Many people now just cant afford to keep or buy horses and this in turn has led the market to fall somewhat and the prices of the animals to come down quite considerably compared to a year ago. The animals are still well bred and just are the unfortunate victims of the recession. I however have yet to see a horse for €190 like you described - would you care to link me to such an animal? I can understand and sympathise with such people who lost jobs or are facing redundancy and have no other option but to sell their horse. But with it being a buyers market they do face fierce competition and unfortunately some animals do have to be slaughtered if no home is found for them. Isn't it better said animals are humanely disposed of rather then being abandoned and left to fend for themselves?

I also would like to raise the question with you about animals in your country? Isn't it equally narrow minded of me to comment on the mass horse meat production in your country. I could also comment that you must over breed your animals and take no consideration of confirmation, personality or purpose while breeding them if they are destined for the meat market. Ireland breeds with athletic purpose, confirmation and personality in mind and any breeder hopes his stock reaches top level and to showcase our horses to the world.

I feel you are grossly misinformed about Irish breeders and that this thread will educate you otherwise.

 

[Tharg]

I would love to find an average RC type for €190!

Idiots breed crap in all countries.

 

[penhwnllys_stardust]

A friend of mine breeds her section A mare with her TB stallion every year so she does not get fat the foal is sold for next to nothing... now that is silly breeding! (not in Ireland)

 

[gadetra]

Ashlington and Spins you are absolutely correct.
I find the OP's attitude ignorant and a bit insulting. Yes there is a problem with over production, but it is not just here.
I am a breeder and intend to breed 2 mares this year. as per usual-i bred nothing for the last 2 years- It is considered and and i only beed quality with quality.
What doed annoy me ia bit is the MASSIVE mark up my horses make when they cross the water, but at least i they have good homes.
Magazines and other media run feature that highlight Irelands equine problems-but where i live there are over 30 horses in a 2 mile radius if not more and there is not one cruelty/factory case amongst them, and they are mainly breeding/youngstock.

 

[miss_bird]

I also have to disagree with the op, yes there was a problems with overreeding in Ireland, but also in England and france.
It really is a case of education, as there really does need to be someting done about all the foals born each year in europe that end up going to the meat man at 6 months old.

 

[Pedantic]

Could it be because they ain't allowed to use contraception

 

[Rowreach]

Disappointing that the OP hasn't come back to their post

 

[JingleTingle]

Just my two penny worth to put the OP right. Yes, in the time of the celtic tiger there was a tendency to breed any and almost every mare available to fill the ever demanding UK market for Irish bred horses. Because of this (IMO) the quality of some horses and ponys going over the water was a very sad reflection of Irish breeding in recent years. Seemed UK buyers would pay vastly inflated prices for even poorly bred horses from Ireland.

In recent months there has been lorry loads of these now unwanted horses being sent abroad (could be UK but probably destined for Italy etc. meat market). This is a very sad fate for these ill bred horses, a quick bullet in the head would have been far kinder IMO.

A breeder friend who is still breeding top quality young stock sport horses remarked to me that he is still breeding despite the downturn in the market because: 'now all the badly bred stuff is either being culled or being shipped out of Ireland, when the economy picks up, which it surely will at some point in the future, there will be a shortage of 2, 3 and 4 year old well bred sport horses, I intend to have my horses well bred, fed and schooled to fill that gap in the market in future years' I have to say, I think in his case he does have a point that it is still prudent to keep breeding?

 

[con_finn]

At the end of the day it is their choice ! Nothing to do with anyone else ! The horses welfare is key, as long as the the horse is in good health thats all that matters !

It's not killing you so you don't need to worry !

 

[JingleTingle]

At the end of the day it is their choice ! Nothing to do with anyone else ! The horses welfare is key, as long as the the horse is in good health thats all that matters !

It's not killing you so you don't need to worry !

Amen to that! Far more bluntly put than my post but agree with your sentiments 100 per cent!

 

[only_me]

Indiscriminate breeding happens in England too!

Good horses still sell, and good horses have kept their price.

Bad horses sell for low prices, as they always have

 

[noodle_]

a rc type for 190euros? i'll have two!!...

i think OP you would get for 190euro would be utter crap so i think your wrong there.


as for overbreeding.... england/france are just as bad!!

 

[CBFan]

As said already,indescriminate breeding goes on everywhere, and I don't agree with it but really feel for the irish. Don't forget, A year ago everything was pretty rosy...then the country went bust. The equine gestaton period is near enough a year and therefore when many of the foals you are talking about were concieved, the country was in a very different economic climate!! You can't blame them for trying to earn back even a little of what they have invested in the breeding of the animal by selling it...even if it is for tuppence.
A HUGE percentage of the irish population have found themselves in hard times... many of them skilled labour) were previously working 7 days a week are now barely working two.. there just isn't the work.


Open your eyes OP... theres MUCH more to this situation than you have considered.

 

[stroppy]

Its nothing to do with you, you can't do anything about it so why bother, you just come across as a stuck up fool.

 

[Spins]

Disappointing that the OP hasn't come back to their post

I agree.. I was very insulted by this thread. And i don't whether its an irish thing or not but I took this very personally and would like to see what the OP has to say for themselves now.

 

[Cuffey]

Indiscriminate breeding is all over UK and Ireland
It is sad that the good breeders who produce horses which would suit many H&H members are cutting back but rubbish is still being born.

I was at a sale yesterday, at least 3 mares had been put to the stallion in SEPTEMBER presumably after having late foals last year

Bad opinions of Irish breeders can easily be made if you see what many of the Irish dealers are bringing to our UK sales.
An entry yesterday was an 8yo stallion shown in the ring with a piece of cord through its mouth--it looked like an accident waiting to happen to anyone standing too close, bids went to 20gns! Of the whole lorry load, 3 were refused entry to the sale, 5 not sold, one had a bleeding sarcoid, one had twisted feet not sold, one 14.2 sold for 320gns

 

[Spins]

well if we're going to go into all the bad points and attack the irish for what the minority does fine. (I'll be the first to admit our current horse exports are nothing to be proud of) But don't just single us out.

 

[missyme10]

Overbreeding is a worldwide problem, not just in Ireland.
I think we are more aware of the problems in Ireland simply because they have been in the news so much more with talks on wide spread culls etc. I do think they have been hit particuarly hard though with the country going bust.

I am in Scotland, there is a major dealer here that visits Ireland weekly and transports Irish horses in by the lorry loads, 25/30 at a time, a combination of ISH and traditional Irish cobs. They pick them up for very little, get them back here and sell at hugely inflated prices.
This tells me one thing, if they are going to the extent of going to Ireland rather than buying locally, they are obviously far cheaper in Ireland considering shipping costs.
This in turn tells me that if significantly cheaper, there is a bigger general problem in Ireland than there is in the rest of the UK regarding general horse sales.
But I agree that it is ignorant to believe there is only a problem in Ireland.

In Scotland the market has dropped significantly but I dont believe there is any kind of major crisis. You can get a lot more horse for your money at the moment and its a buyers market but horses are still selling for a reasonable amount. Youngstock would only be selling at about 50% of what it did a few years back so breeding is significantly affected, but there is still money to be made otherwise breeders would cease breeding!

Hopefully things will pick up in Ireland, the ecomomy is struggling in all sectors and not just the equine industry. The rest of us in the UK are currently benefitting from this I think, ie. good Irish stock coming over for far less money than we used to have to pay.

I for one love my Irish Cob, a wonderful horse that I am sure would be grazing in his field in Ireland had the country not hit such hard times x

 

[ashlingm]

Dosent every country have breeders who indiscriminately breed?! Why are we focusing on the Irish minority in this instance - of course there are a few bad eggs in the breeding circuit but overall isn't the Irish horse known world over for its quality. This is something unique to Ireland and not many other countries can compete with that title.

Overall I'm proud of Irish horses and our exports. Of course of late, due to the recession and our current economic climate, our horses values have dropped and it has become a buyers market. In some cases you do see badly bred stock, but isn't this the case in every country where someone has basically chanced their arm to make an easy buck? These horses are usually destined to be humanely slaughtered or else if bought by a compassionate person they do not go on to breed further.

@Cuffey - It's a shame that you feel so negatively about the Irish horses you saw on sale. I feel what you saw was really unusual and questionable if I'm quite honest. To enter a horse into a sales ring costs a fee, and owners know horses must be healthy to bring them there - why would people waste their time, their entrance fee and not to mention fuel only to only be turned away? Normally horses with severe confirmation faults or serious vet issues are sent to be slaughtered as there is no market for them, even when the celtic tiger was in full force and people had money to spare. Perhaps a few were lucky and became companion animals but these would have been sold privately as, again, they would not be allowed to enter a sales ring.

I've still yet to see the OP return to this thread and would be very interested in their views and would like to think they are now somewhat educated after reading these posts.

 

[Spins]

@missyme10 - I don't think the fact your local dealer is taking 20/30 horses over at a time should be a reflection on the welfare or breeding situation in Ireland. As to my knowledge this went on during our profitable days too. I think as long as British dealers are willing to pay for horses which don't have the best breeding there is going to be a market for them.

@cuffey - I have been to many sales in Ireland and have never witnessed anything like that. Go to cavan, goresbridge, tats or goffs.. and use what you see there to make up your opinion on irish breeders. What you saw was clearly a case of "last chance saloon" for horses that wouldn't sell at home and maybe weren't eligible for the factory etc. But please come to one of the above sales before you go judging us and our horses.

In my opinion Irish horses are over-priced in Britain and this obviously doesn't help the problem either. 2 examples - 1. Saw a horse for sale on a well known irish horse selling website, pure-bred ID beautiful mare, great breeding €3k saw THE EXACT same mare, same photos and everything advertised on horse and hound for £8k.. I showed this to a few people who were equally shocked
2. I know of a off the track tb who was bought for €190 (he was most certainly NOT ur average rc horse, he was highly strung, difficult to train and was extremely excitable) he was in training with the OH of a well known Irish Eventer. She fell off on a regular basis but as they were making a short docu series to get him to the RDS she kept going.. eventually breaking a collar bone i think. This horse was then posted on a uk website for £4,500

@ashlington -I too am immensely proud of our horses and the name they have the world over.

All I'm saying is with horse prices falling and the cost of keeping them remaining the same its very difficult here. Just because you mightn't know a horses breeding that doesn't make it a bad horse, just because it was cheap because the owner wanted a quick sale it doesn't mean its a bad horse in my opinion.

 

[missyme10]

@missyme10 - I don't think the fact your local dealer is taking 20/30 horses over at a time should be a reflection on the welfare or breeding situation in Ireland. As to my knowledge this went on during our profitable days too. I think as long as British dealers are willing to pay for horses which don't have the best breeding there is going to be a market for them.

There was no comment from myself regarding welfare, just an observation that these dealers in particular source all horses from Ireland, the only scottish horses they have for sale are trade ins.
Simple economics, it is far cheaper to buy in Ireland and ship over than it is to buy locally.
Yes dealers have always done this as their is a market from Irish horses here, but they have not sought out their horses solely from Ireland before. Dealers buy the cheapest going and sell on at maximum profit, thats the name of the game, Its their living.

So I think it is a fair statement to make that if Irish horses are significantly cheaper than in Scotland and England for equal quality, that reflects the problems the equine industry in Ireland faces.

I agree their is a UK wide problem, but I do believe Ireland has been hit harder than the rest of the UK, not surprising considering Ireland went bust.
Breeding of crap quality should stop everywhere, not just in Ireland

 

[JingleTingle]

I agree with most of what you have written ashlingm - yet another here who is extremely proud of the well bred ISH and Irish cobs that are famous the world over. Reputable dealers are (hopefully) still breeding these, lets hope the back yard, one mare chancer no longer is breeding. I like to think not now that the horse industry here is struggling.

But I have to take issue in all fairness to both sides of the arguement with this:

[B]@Cuffey - It's a shame that you feel so negatively about the Irish horses you saw on sale. I feel what you saw was really unusual and questionable if I'm quite honest. To enter a horse into a sales ring costs a fee, and owners know horses must be healthy to bring them there - why would people waste their time, their entrance fee and not to mention fuel only to only be turned away? Normally horses with severe confirmation faults or serious vet issues are sent to be slaughtered as there is no market for them, even when the celtic tiger was in full force and people had money to spare. Perhaps a few were lucky and became companion animals but these would have been sold privately as, again, they would not be allowed to enter a sales ring.
[/B]
If you were to visit some of the less prestigious horse sales over here you will see hundreds of these poor unfortunate, ill bred, ill cared for horses on sale, both now and during the glory years of economic success. Conformation faults or not, they are changing hands, many went ( and are still going)to the Uk and were sold on again at grossly inflated prices to the less discerning buyer. Therein is the problem of the reputation of Irish breeders and their horses.

Lets not pretend that EVERY horse we breed here is 1st class, even the best breeders we have can get it wrong, and very few would have those less successful offspring culled when they can sell them off down the road at one of the lesser sales to your average 'on the make' dealer.

Im fiercely proud of the horse industry here for the most part, but lets not be blinkered or our arguments will not be taken seriously will they?