skint.spotty
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Silly question maybe - but why? I might have missed it because I think my brain has long since melted and dribbled out of my ears but google isn't helping.
Why do vets fee have VAT added?
- Thread starter skint.spotty
- Start date
quizzie
Well-Known Member
Why wouldn't they? They are classed as non-essential...it is your choice to have an animal.
20% VAT is added to all goods and services except for certain essential exceptions and foodstuffs/children's clothes/books, and a few others bits and pieces also have reduced rates.
AShetlandBitMeOnce
Well-Known Member
Your cat is less essential than my period....
Certain VAT rules make me quite cheesed off.
Certain VAT rules make me quite cheesed off.
skint.spotty
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I know owning animals is a luxury; but if you have them, giving them healthcare is completely necessary, surely? Sorry, kind of deliberately playing devil's advocate - it was just a musing that cropped up after paying my latest (substantial) vets bill lol
Though I did find that surgeries are only subject to VAT if their income is over 79k - which makes more sense.
Though I did find that surgeries are only subject to VAT if their income is over 79k - which makes more sense.
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Arzada
Well-Known Member
I can't imagine a surgery with an income <£79k
sbloom
Well-Known Member
I use software that sets out my invoices with net pricing and only adds VAT to the total. It's beyond irritating, I've asked for them to change it to no avail. I would imagine this is often the case with vey software as, especially if they have a farm practice, they'll be invoicing a lot of businesses who would prefer net pricing.
Ah realised the question isn't about invoicing but about actual VAT, if you consider that even womens sanitary products attract VAT then you can't expect vet fees to be exempt! VAT is a retrogressive tax (ie the poor pay proportionately more of their income in VAT than rich people), would be lovely to have it lower and the tax burden shifted slightly away from it.
Ah realised the question isn't about invoicing but about actual VAT, if you consider that even womens sanitary products attract VAT then you can't expect vet fees to be exempt! VAT is a retrogressive tax (ie the poor pay proportionately more of their income in VAT than rich people), would be lovely to have it lower and the tax burden shifted slightly away from it.
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skint.spotty
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I know one: a one-man-band practice who rents a consulting room in another surgery. He doesn't charge VAT. But is registered on companies house as his own business. Though I do get this setup won't be the norm.
But the other 2 practices I use do.
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AmyMay
Situation normal
Does your mechanic charge vat when you have work done on your car?
skint.spotty
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I don't have a car and have never had one serviced, I don't know if they do or not.
I'm presuming from your comment they do. I still don't understand why vets do. Why don't farriers, dog groomers, walkers etc. if we're going to use the 'pets are a luxury' argument?
Nicnac
Well-Known Member
Don't get me started on VAT. My business (health care) isn't VAT registered as we aren't allowed to charge VAT on our services i.e. they're VAT exempt, however we have to pay it on everything we buy and can't claim a penny back. Other businesses can net off their VAT against purchases.
We don't pay VAT on prescriptions or private hospital services so actually OPs question is valid.
As to why you don't pay VAT on farriers, dog groomers etc it's because their turnover hasn't reached the VAT threshold. If you go to Pets at Home for grooming you will be charged VAT (included in the price)
We don't pay VAT on prescriptions or private hospital services so actually OPs question is valid.
As to why you don't pay VAT on farriers, dog groomers etc it's because their turnover hasn't reached the VAT threshold. If you go to Pets at Home for grooming you will be charged VAT (included in the price)
ownedbyaconnie
Well-Known Member
Because their turnover is less than the VAT registration threshold. Otherwise yes VAT is charged.
skint.spotty
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So - it's all about income threshold effectively, ie the £79k?
Why is it set at that number?
Why is it set at that number?
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
It depends on their turnover. My farrier and EDT both charge VAT.
ownedbyaconnie
Well-Known Member
Why are any of the tax thresholds whatever they are. Gov have decided for whatever reason that’s the threshold! It’s probably a figure where below that and people aren’t making enough money to warrant the extra paperwork/accountants fee to sort.
I’m an accountant and hate VAT. I avoid it at all costs and am woefully ignorant on it on the whole. If I was clever I’d make it my specialism and go into consultancy and earn a fortune. I don’t know anyone that knows much about it, we all avoid it like the plague.
AmyMay
Situation normal
If they’re turnover is more than £79k they will do.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Why is a Jaffa cake a cake and not a biscuit?
McVities fought a court case with HMRC over this one, because cakes are "food" and zero rated and biscuits are "luxury" and carry VAT.
So a chocolate digestive is 20% extra and sponge with jelly and chocolate roughly the same size and shape and eaten the same way is cheaper. Go figure.
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McVities fought a court case with HMRC over this one, because cakes are "food" and zero rated and biscuits are "luxury" and carry VAT.
So a chocolate digestive is 20% extra and sponge with jelly and chocolate roughly the same size and shape and eaten the same way is cheaper. Go figure.
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ownedbyaconnie
Well-Known Member
I believe it’s the same with digestives vs choc digestives. The former is an “essential” and zero rated. The other is a luxury and has VAT added.Why is a Jaffa cake a cake and not a biscuit?
MyVities fought a court case with HMRC over this one, because cakes are "food" and zero rated and biscuits are "luxury" and carry VAT.
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I actually would love a job in tax policy. I did a module on tax economics at uni and found it fascinating. I love the idea behind shaping/encouraging/discouraging behaviours via tax. But I saw a job ad the other day and the pay was shockingly low…maybe that’s why our tax system is so backwards.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I looked it up, you're right. Add chocolate, add 20% !
PinkvSantaboots
Well-Known Member
Because its a business and most businesses charge vat one way or another.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
As has been said it's all about turnover. When I only got commission for selling saddles I didn't have to be Vat registered, start buying and selling myself and I soon passed the threshold. It's a ton more work, many of us can't put our charges up to cover the extra cost, so I reckon for me it's been a direct hit of about 12% of my income. I'm a tax collector for the Govt. And anyone going self employed, if you're getting paid by individuals do everything you can to not be registered.
It's Govt choice about where they take money from us, as I said earlier it's a regressive tax. A poorer person spends 100% of their income and so pays nearer 20% tax on their expenditure than does a wealthy person who will invest rather than spend 100% of their income. It's a fact that essentials being 0% vat rated doesn't change this, the poor still pay out more of their income in vat than do the wealthy.
Income tax and wealth taxes are the main alternatives for taxing individuals, each spreading the tax burden in very different ways. Stuff it's useful to understand to a basic level to help you decide how to cast your vote at the ballot box.
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skint.spotty
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ahhhhh than kyou so much everyone
makes more sense now - though after recent service i'd had from my vets if they asked for 50K and one of my kidneys i'd gladly give it.
makes more sense now - though after recent service i'd had from my vets if they asked for 50K and one of my kidneys i'd gladly give it.
skint.spotty
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the rules are a bit mental though. I could NEVER be anything in banking or accounting that's for sure, so kudos to you that are.
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
I absolutely hated having to do it so we de-registered about a year ago, OH is getting old and winding down so seemed sensible with new ways of doing it required (we've always done it with pen & paper!) We've always been under the threshold but it did pay at one time and as the vast majority of our customers were also VAT registered, it made no odds to them. So glad I don't have to do it anymore!
ownedbyaconnie
Well-Known Member
I have nothing to do with it as I deal with private tax but know VAT has gone “digital”. Self assessment is going the same way too. Will be a nightmare.
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
We've always had an accountant do that for us, I couldn't possibly cope with it myself!
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
If it's a biscuit, if it's a cake it can have as much chocolate as you like and not attract vat.
I believe the argument Jaffa cakes won their case on is that cakes go stale and get hard but biscuits go soggy when they are old. A Jaffa cake gets hard so is therefore a cake.
Re businesses, yes if your turnover goes above 79k you have to register for vat, below that it's optional.
I had a builder/handyman i used who wasn't registered. He had a part time job paye doing maintenence for a management conpany but also did some work on a self employed basis. However he then dropped the job and focused on his own business, revenue went up and from my point of view, jobs were now 20% more expensive.