Why do you breed the horses you breed?

volatis

volatis

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Thought it might be interesting to hear why we have all ended up breeding the type of horses we are, whether it be Janet and her irish Draughts, Htobago and her arabs, Karyn and her appalossas etc

I started off focusing on coloured sporthorses a little by accident. I'd always been attracted to flashy horses, chestnuts with 4 white socks and a blaze, or with unusual face markings, and I decided I would go and buy myself a coloured dressage mare, for some serious 'bling'. Well i couldnt find what i wanted, colour and movement, so I started trying to breed my own.
Getting into Trakehners was also slightly accidental. Its a breed my father had always loved and extoled the virtues of, but my first Trakehner broodmares came to me by accident , when I advertised for a broodmare on loan, and one of the mares I was offered was a beautifully bred Trakehner. The reason I stuck with them is their fascinating history, their beauty and intelligence, and their wonderful effortless and graceful way of moving. I love the fact there is so much emphasis on the mother line and research you can do on the genetics of the different combinations. Just wish I had a few more lifetimes to take in all the knowledge that is out there

Right whose next??
 
Well next year I'll be joining you in this fun arena - Donkey is going to be put in foal - I don't think I need to comment on what breed she will be going to
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13 years old and allowed to ride an 18hh just broken one - the most perfect gentleman I have ever ridden - his mother was also a true lady - fell in love with the breed but back in the late 70's even rarer than now so had to wait 23 years - I now own the kindest gentlest mare who I think will produce a rather nice foal to help continue the breed.
 
Do you want to include those of us who have bred one and intend to breed more, or more of the multiple broodmares type of breeder?
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The reason I went into breeding, was to produce horses that both my daughter and I could produce and enjoy. We started by using the fantastic mares we had in our string of competition horses.

So its dressage and showjumpers for us, although I think I might have bred a very nice future eventer too.

We also now have 2 very nice retired international endurance mares, who have been added to the list. It keeps the OH happy
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Crazymare - everyone

Someone reading this board might have a burning desire to start breeding Highlands/Arabs/Trotters whatever. Be interesting to hear why they are attracted to that breed, or if not breed specific, why that discipline
 
My sister and I are very small time breeders and havent had a foal for 3 years. Not through lack of trying!!

We now just breed for ourselves, it's very hard to buy young horses which we like within our budget to event to a serious level so we decided to try breeding a few when her mare had a career-ending injury. Our 3 year old looks the business.

In the past we have bred to sell- just nice allrounder types, but it generally goes wrong and doesnt end up making any money
 
OK Well...

I bred from my graded Sports Pony mare, I felt that there was a lack of talented but rideable ponies around. I've been to look at so many with friends for their children and trying to find something safe that could jump more than 1ft6 or do more than a prelim test was like finding hens teeth!!

I picked the stallion I used very carefully for his temprement and type plus his ability. Both have cracking, but easy to sit jumps, with good quality paces that aren't too huge for a child to sit. Equally my ponies I aim to be suitable for adults to have a great time with.

My mare has competed in dressage, SJ, showing, WHP, ODE, horseball and has hunted, hacked etc without ever disgracing herself - she could just be easier to ride, hence choosing a very laid back stallion.

Ponies aren't just hairy, half dead things, they can be such fun too!!! Mine are not natives though.
 
Not sure yet - going to look at several this winter - must be:

Forward going
Straight mover
Short backed
Genetically compatible - as little line breeding as possible - will look at the SPARKS programme the CBHS offers.
 
To have something of my mares that would carry on from them & with no hang ups. No hang ups, all history known, none of this 2nd guessing nonsense & by the time they come under saddle you know them inside out.
 
I don't breed a 'breed', I breed a 'type'. I don't particularly worry about what 'brand' they are, I just breed for athleticism and what I personally consider to be a well balanced animal in all aspects. If you look through my herd of mares and youngsters they pretty much follow a pattern. In showing terms they would mostly fall into the Riding Horse / Lightweight Hunter Class, although a couple of my TBs might be light enough to be Hacks.

I breed primarily for the sport of eventing and the reason I'm fascinated with breeding these types of horses is because of the versatility they have to have. Also some attributes that would make them excellent in one phase can actually be detrimental in another phase e.g. a very expressive knee action would be great for the dressage phase but a hinderence when galloping cross country.

Therefore the challenge for me is to try to breed an animal that has the right balance of all the required attributes where no attribute is so dominant that it's a hinderence to another...

- I breed for movement which has a very engaged hind leg (as not only does this help with the dressage phase, it's critical for both the jumping phases), and a loose, free elbow and shoulder, but crucially NOT an excessive front leg action. To much knee is a no-no for me because of the detrimental effect on gallop and long term soundness.

- I breed for a jump which is agile, loose and balanced. I don't want to breed an animal who wants to clear everything by 2 foot, I want one who keeps consistently clearing everything by 2 inches. Over-jumping is detrimental as it wastes a lot of time cross country and is potentially damaging to long term soundness given they are jumping on surfaces that are not level, can be hard, or deep. The knee absolutely MUST snap up above the elbow - that's not about having a clean SJ round, it's actually purely a safety thing. Rotational falls only happen when the knees dont clear the fence. If the knees snap up the rest of the body can slide over - it's not pretty, but it's a lot less likely to kill you.

- I breed for gallop. Flashy dressage and a clear SJ are great, but if it's taken you half and hour to get round the cross country, you're dead in the water. Speed away from a fence and a comfortably high cruising speed are critical for making the time. For me, that means lots of TB in the pedigree. Again the balance is getting the gallop without losing the lift and expression required for dressage, or the careful jump needed for SJ.

- I breed for brain. It's great to have an obedient horse, but if it's obedient because it relies on you totally to tell what it's going to do next, that's a problem in eventing. Everyone makes mistakes when they ride. When you're eventing a little mistake can have a big consequence if you are the only one doing the thinking. You need to have a horse under you that when you do make that mistake, which we all do, it will say "just stay in the plate, I'll sort this out". Again, I'm a fan of TB's because of their quick minds and quick reflexes. That can bring with it it's own problems especially when they start making up their own moves in the dressage arena! It's again, about balance. Brains with a trainable attitude is the ideal.

- I breed for soundness. I'm extremely critical of conformation. Function follows form. If they are conformed correctly they SHOULD stand the wear and tear of the job, and have the mechanical structure to deliver the required performances. There's no guarantees on this, but if they are put together well there should be no uneven strain through joints or tissues which could predispose to an injury. Three of the critical factors when selecting top horses for teams are: soundness, consistency and soundness. You can have the most talented, trainable horse in the world, but if it's only ever got 3 good legs, it might as well be a donkey (no offence to donkey lovers intended
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It's all quite tricky to do, which is why I LOVE the challenge! When you get a good one that has it all, it's like winning the lottery. That's why I admire the top horses so much. Gone are the days of eventers being failed racehorses or showjumpers or dressage horses. Now they have to be virtual masters of all phases, and there are numerous examples now of eventers going out and winning decent dressage and showjumping competitions as well.

To me personally the eventer is the ultimate athlete. They inspire me.
 

For me it is about improving on what I have got and breeding my future sporthorses (I HATE horse shoppping) - also there is a huge element of satisfaction in the bringing on of something that is a 'blank canvas' The result is your doing - be it good OR bad!

I've always loved warmbloods for their elegance & substance (I do love a good TB but I like something with a bit more weight) - Started with a cracking mare who I rode for 3 years & I totally adore. She's more of an old fashioned warmblood mare (lol - was just telling CrazyMare that she's 'built like a bison' ) and I had a notion to breed a bit more 'blood' back into the line. I haven't used a flash stallion with a big name, but one that complemented my mare very well.

I'm pleased with the result - I just can't bear to sell any of them.
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Interesting thread, BUT, can I ask a slightly different question to the one that was originally asked .......

I'm not a breeder, but I do hope to have a foal by my mare at some time in the near future which will be, regardless of sex etc, for me to bring on, so I will be breeding only for me.

As breeders who produce to sell how do you know that you've got it right?? It strikes me when reading the posts that this thread has attracted that it all comes down to an individuals perception of what it is that they are looking for - but how do you test that, how do you ensure that in your strivings for your kind of perfection that you aren't missing the mark?

I hope no one takes offence at this - I am genuinely interested!
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My breeding started 21 years ago when having had two children I decided to put my Hoarwithy mare in foal for a replacement, the grand plan being the youngster would be ready to break as the children started school. My plan was to breed myself an eventer/alrounder so I used Bohemond who was breathtaking in his athletisim.
However one foal and I was hooked so in two years had 5 mares usually selling foals at weaning. My Hoarwithy mare spoilt me
though in producing a Grade A Stallion, an advanced mare who is the mother of my stallion Weston Justice, 2 intermediate eventers and two proper hunters one who is the mother of my daughters dressage horse who is just going advanced medium.
I like to think we breed athletic, sound trainable horses who may not be worldbeaters but with correct training wouldnt be far off it.
I do use some warmblood blood to hopefully breed some more dressage horses for my daughter but we still love our eventing and our TBs and stubbornly refuse to accept that 3/4-7/8th crosses are not capable with the right training of competing in any sphere.
Thereby stars a new topic as it my belief that no matter what you breed for, what the crucial and often missing element is the starting and training of these young horses.
 
I don't know if I should add to this tread but here goes.. I've put my mare in foal for the first time this year she has no breeding to speak of (no papers) shes a huge 17.3 IDxTB which I have owned for 14 years in that time I have had endless fun on her competing in RH,WH.SJ.XC not dressage though as we always struggled with ABS braking and in competition she was always placed so even though I think she's gorgeous other people (judges) thought she was nice too..She has a temperament to die for which is why I want to have one of her offspring...Shes getting on a bit now and I thought I would breed a foal from her because if it half the horses she is I will be made up...I know some breeders would think I am crazy but in my opinion it could be well worth it I've put her to a TB as I want to do Eventing and I think to fine her up a bit is the stamp of alot of eventers these days...
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hope I have'nt bored people too much
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Mmm ... well I have to say that in my young days I was always a TB person (mainly because OTT TB's were all I could afford! (The best showjumper I ever had cost me A$300 which was barely above meat money.) But I think even back then I was looking for an IDSH - there just weren't any in Oz then. The nearest was 3/4 TB and 1/4 Clydesdale - If he'd been a mare and bred back to the TB I think that would have done me.

Then I came to England - my competitive days behind me really - and I got involved in hunting. OH & I had 2 horses - his an IDSH which was at least 3/4 TB and she was great - but her brain fried out hunting. Mine was a CB xAnglo-Arab (if he hadn't had the worst of all breeds I might have ended up breeding CB's - but much as I loved Bramble - he was a great hunter - he was the quirkiest and most difficult horse I ever had.) I ended up putting OH's mare in foal to Embla George - but sadly she died mid-pregnancy following a fall in the field. That ended by breeding efforts for a while.

All the time I was hunting, I kept seeing horses I really liked and they were, almost without exception, IDSH (plus a few pure-breds, including the 2 stallions, Embla George and Embla Statesman.) Just before I left the BHS I lost Bramble in a paddock accident. I'd already handed over another horse (3/4 TB and 1/4 Percheron) to my OH as I didn't have the time nor the inclination to hunt anymore (bad back, gammy leg, bored with spending cold, wet days in the saddle.) And then Gus jumped off the pages of H&H and said 'buy me'! So I did!
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Gus was not a particularly good example of the breed although he'd originally been sold as a stallion prospect. But he is the NICEST horse I've ever owned. Incredibly willing, tries his heart out to please. Unfortunately he's a bit dim too so rarely comprehends what you want - but he TRIES! I was hooked on the breed.

So how does a gelding start a breeding operation?? I blame my farrier! He turned up one morning and said: "I know a stallion you should buy."
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He turned out to be Gus's half-brother, a pretty decent RID stallion who'd had limited opportunities and was living a pretty deathly life - locked away from other horses in a stable and yard 'compound' with owners who were scared of him. It seemed like fate - so I bought him.

I already had two IDSH mares who I'd bought as hunt staff horses - but they'd proved a bit too much for our huntsman - so looked for a couple of RID mares and found my two foundation mares, and an old Irish TB (who I bought cheaply because I felt sorry for her.)

Within 2 weeks, the stallion had proved to have a rather nasty streak (with other horses, not people!) and I was lucky enough to part exchange him for the stallion I have now.

So - I have to say it was all a bit of an accident!
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We breed wlesh cobs section A, C and D. Because the obvious reason..they are welsh(hehe) and we also love their temperament and it makes you very proud when you can sprint into a roaring and whistling arena with your home produced section D stallion inhand.!!! fabulouse feeling!! and then to win is just fantastic!they are so proud, eye catching creatures who are born with that 'look at me' factor'. we work with both welsh cobs, warmbloods and thoroughbreds but welsh cobs are the best to breed!!
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Bibbles10 - I think the only way a breeder knows if they have acheived what they set out to achieve is probably in competition - be it the Royal Welsh for Welsh breeders, the hunting field or the RID inspections for Janet, in BE for maestro etc. For me the first stage is at the Futurity evaluations, and to a lesser extent in the show ring, then when they are a little older (for the fillies) at their mare gradings, and then in the arena, and then for the fillies, its whether their offspring can follow on.
And to some extent with the market. i breed to sell (apart from fillies I want to retain) so I have failed if no one wants my product. But good marketing can also help sell a product, so that doesn't necessarily confirm whether I have met my breeding objectives
 
Julia, what a wonderful post!
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We also don't breed a 'breed' but a 'type' - our breeding program is in the earliest of stages and I anticipate it evolving, but essentially we want to breed sound, exceptionally put together horses with good brains who will be able to excel in any of the three main disciplines. The mares we have started with have all sort of come along by accident, two are trakehners with a healthy dollop of TB and the third is a Hanovarian/Oldenburg. Our real proven broodmare I think will produce a smashing foal (she has the first of ours out of her on the way now), my only regret is that she is an older lady and I'm not sure how many foals we'll get with her. She is graded with both Trakehner and BWBS and a smashing mare, so very excited about her Elroon foal next year!
The Han/Old mare has just graded with Hanovarian and was a showjumper herself.
The final mare should have an eventing baby next year. She by Fleetwater Opposition, with the rest TB and has gone to a TB (Groomsbridge May I).

We, like Volatis breed to sell, so I will judge the success of the program on how many foals we shift!
 
I set out to breed happy good tempered horses, who'd be able to do a job. I have a well bred good tempered 3/4 TB mare & I use local stallions who had the atributes that I consider important - good conformation & good temperament. I'm afraid competition history didn't figure at all.
I have used a range of stallions from a pure shire to a riding pony & currently have four homebreds. The only one broken is the shire cross who is now 8yrs old. He's working at elementary, will pop a 1.20m SJ, & has gone clear round a PN level XC, & hence is capable of more than 70% of the british riding population will ever countenance doing.
I also have at home a 5yr old homebred mare, who I have bred a foal from this year. She is currently unbroken (she'll be broken this winter after we've weaned the foal), but if she's half the horse her mother was then she'll certainly perform well enough to do as much as I'm likely to want to do these days!!!
This years foal & a 2yr old that I've bred are by riding pony stallions. They're both very athletic, as well as having the potential to do very well in the show ring.
Sorry if I've have waffled on a bit, but whilst none of mine are potential world beaters they're all nice animals to have around, good looking & well mannered all rounders.
 
i started about 5yrs ago, mainly had a baby but didnt want to let the horses go altogether, i imported her from ireland, she was by golden river, very nice mare. i put her to a swedish stallion by good future x granus.the result turned into an amazing moving machine,i was hooked from the on!!! i now have a graded british warmblood mare in foal to sf stallion by tlaloc m, second mare is kwpn kingston x notaris x ramiro z she will go to my trakehner stallion holme grove calypso and last but not least country puzzle, by country top gun she will go to a major de la couer stallion.
the last 2 will be put in foal early next year. bit of a pic over load!!

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Interesting thread, BUT, can I ask a slightly different question to the one that was originally asked .......

I'm not a breeder, but I do hope to have a foal by my mare at some time in the near future which will be, regardless of sex etc, for me to bring on, so I will be breeding only for me.

As breeders who produce to sell how do you know that you've got it right?? It strikes me when reading the posts that this thread has attracted that it all comes down to an individuals perception of what it is that they are looking for - but how do you test that, how do you ensure that in your strivings for your kind of perfection that you aren't missing the mark?

I hope no one takes offence at this - I am genuinely interested!
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You really only know when the horse goes out and does the job that it was intentionally bred for.

As I breed dressage and showjumping horses, I can only comment on horses who have been bred for a competitive career.

So when my 4 year old is doing this.........................

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And then as a 5 year old he is still doing this .......................

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I am pretty pleased with the baby that I produced. As he is the oldest of them all, I will have to wait and see how the others perform.

So time is the factor in knowing if what you aimed to produce, actually turns out to be what you hoped for.

It is also as important IMO to try and get any young horse into the best hands possible, Nature V Nurture, a breeder can only put the Nature into a horse (apart from early handling), but the rider is the one who puts the Nurture into it (the make or break of any competition horse). A horse will only ever be as good as the rider that is producing it.


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Before I came back to the UK I used to breed dogs and the pleasure I had planning, producing, training these was immense. I always had a desire to breed horses but as we were never quite sure when we were coming back it wasn't an option. In any case the only horses available were flat racing TBs ( they could do everything - SJ, dressage, eventing, polo). When I came back I discovered the pleasure of riding a horse with more power, it gives a completely different feel. Plus they were uncomplicated. Perhaps if I'd happened to ride an ID first I might be breeding them instead - who knows. At last I have my purebred brood mare and have bred my first foal. I aim to breed uncomplicated, easy to do, hunter type, around 16hh purebreds. This filly foal and the next foal are bred to keep. After that I shall have to start parting with them.
 
V what an excellent thread....

I have always had an interest in warmbloods, since I first knew they existed. My mum was the stud manager at the Bavarian Stud near Aberdeen. They were one of the first places in Scotland (barring the founders of the SSH) to import warmbloods and I remember how awe inspiring these horses from the continent looked. I remember the HUGE crowds that came to buy them at the first ever auctions held in Scotland.

They had so much presence, power, athleticism and engagement in their movement. In the spot lights they looked incredible under saddle. We are talking back in the late eighties, and the prices they got at auction are not far short of what some horses get now!

Because we also lived at the stud (in a flat above where the stallions were stabled), we also got exposed to all the German trainers, riders and breeders, which I say opened up our eyes a great deal.

I think because I had gone into horses at such a young age and through the riding school environment, it was such a new world regarding warmblood horses, as they were so different to what I had grown up with.

So my first horse was a Bavarian warmblood gelding that I purchased from my mum (oh yes, my mother believed in the fact that you had to work for whatever you wanted). His name was Taggart. So my intention at that time was not to breed, but to get him going as a dressage horse for the future.

However……one day along came a guy with a TB mare to use on the Bavarian stallion that my mum had leased…..and to cut a long story short…he is now my husband…LOL.
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So we basically started out with my gelding and our TB mare called “Storm” that was now in foal to the Bavarian stallion called “Tarsus”. We wanted to add to our breeding mares and purchased an appaloosa mare called “Cheetah”, who was bred by the late George Nimmo. However, we never managed to get her in foal and sold her on.

Both my husband and I wanted to improve on what we were breeding because we felt that there was a gap for good quality well bred horses.

I can look back and laugh now because my hubby wanted us to visit the Dutch stud of Birkland near Aberdeen, as we had seen their stallions Jurius and Purioso doing so well at shows. I was so damm adamant that I did not want to move away from the Bavarian breed……LOL
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. Anyway, on one of our drives in the country we came across the stud of Birkland and were just blown away with the quality of stock that they had.

In the end we purchased two mares, Octavia B and Osprey B from them. With Octavia B being the dam of our two year old colt who did very well in the Evaluations recently.

We had a Bavarian colt called Troy that we tried to pass the Bavarian & SSH Stallion gradings and he failed the first grading and got the lowest grade from the SSH of "Listed". We were so disgusted that we gelded him, and in doing so we then were given the help from the Chairman of the KWPN at the time to look for a stallion (as he was glad that finally someone had taken the decision to geld a colt that he and we felt was substandard for using as a future breeding stallion). I have to say that Troy was sold as a gelding to a fab home in England were he has given his owners a lot of pleasure in all the disciplines..
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From here we purchased our first colt from Holland, our wonderful Royal Geneve, and the rest they say is history.

We have continued to learn from our experiences and from listening to so many top breeders abroad. We have slowly over the last 12 years continually improved on the mare lines and breeding mares we have, and only use Licensed/Approved stallions. We have many friends now in Europe which allows us an insight into the breeding developments across the board.

Our aim is to produce a horse that is fit for the disciplines of showing/dressage/showjumping/eventing, which has the foundation of good breeding, soundness, good brain, with good movement and hopefully potential jump, and has the ability to be ridden by an amateur rider up to a high level rider. We also try and give people in the UK these horses at what we hope are reasonable prices. We also like to educate people on the horses we are breeding, and they in turn learn the importance of our foundations, and then start to look at owning and producing better quality horses, regardless of what their aspirations are.

The pleasure we get...... is seeing our horses do well with their new owners, no matter how big or small the achievement (as they all count), and to receive the phonecalls/texts/emails from those owners with all the updates on the horses…….

But most importantly to know that the horses we bred are loved and cared for by those who ride them, because at the end of the day a horse does not stand in a field munching on grass and thinking to themselves that they have missed out on life because they are not at the next Olympics or World Championships….

When a horse of ours is sold, we still have an interest in them, and we will try our best to support the new owners all the way along the road, whether it be with helping out at shows, any advice, or should they have to sell on the horse for whatever circumstances we always try to help find them their new homes.

How do we know we are achieving what we hoped for…..because now our stock are starting to come out as 4-5 year olds and do well in competition, with many people coming back to purchase from us again, or us being recommended to people. At the end of the day our reputation means a great deal to us.
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Thought it might be interesting to hear why we have all ended up breeding the type of horses we are, whether it be Janet and her irish Draughts, Htobago and her arabs, Karyn and her appalossas etc



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What a fascinating and inspiring thread - thanks for starting this!

I don't qualify as a 'breeder', really, as I only have one horse and have never bred a foal! But my one and only horse is a stallion, and a lot of other people are breeding from him, so I kind of sneak in to this forum through the back door...

Although I have been around Arabs for many years, I do not feel that I am ready yet to start buying or leasing mares and breeding foals myself. I have so much still to learn. For now, I am happy to let wiser and more experienced breeders use my boy, and I try to learn as much as I can from them, from my mentors and from other knowledgeable breeders, especially those on here!

Why Arabs? My obsession began at age 8, when I read a book about the Godolphin Arabian and started longing, as many young girls do, for a 'beautiful fiery chestnut Arab stallion'. Only I never grew out of it!

I love this breed for their intelligence, sweetness, versatility, courage, stamina and soundness, as well as their breathtaking beauty, movement, presence and spirit.

My first horse - a Crabbet Arab stallion, bought as an unbroken 4yo - competed successfully in affiliated eventing, sj and dressage, and won hunter trials, went drag-hunting, etc. And despite having very few foals, he sired several international endurance horses and a ridden show champion.

He was just the best, bravest, toughest, most wonderful little horse. When he died, I was utterly devastated and ran away from horses completely for 13 years - couldn't even bring myself to ride or be near them.

When I finally came out of 'mourning', 2 years ago, I set out to find my 'ideal' Arab colt: exotically beautiful and typey enough to win at top international level in hand, but also with the althletic conformation and movement to be a super sport-horse - and the impeccable pedigree to ensure that all these qualities are passed on.

It took a while, but eventually I found my ideal in a 2yo colt, Tobago! (It took even longer, and a lot of shameless begging, to persuade his owners to let me buy him!)

He represents the type of Arab I would like to breed. So far, things are looking very promising - his first pure-bred foal to be shown was this year's British National Champion foal at the national Arab show.

I am also very keen to promote the use of Arab blood in sport-horse breeding. I think that the right type of Arab - those with the big, elevated 'Russian' movement - could be a useful 'hot-blood' addition to WB/sport-horse breeding, adding refinement, beauty, soundness and intelligence without loss of movement.

Here again Tobago has not let me down: his first PBA foal is winning Sport Horse and Hunter foal titles at county shows, beating all the WBs and TBs, with top judges commenting on her 'faultless conformation' and 'incredible movement'.

BUT - I am acutely aware that it could well just be a fluke or beginner's luck that I found such a super stallion. That one lucky choice does not make me an expert, or qualify me to become a breeder. Breeding even one foal is such a HUGE responsibility, don't you think? I know that I need to learn a lot more about both Arab and sport-horse breeding before attempting to become a proper breeder like you lot!

Thank you again for all your great advice and encouragement!
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