Why does everyone love Edward Gal so much?!

[lindsayH]

Without judging anyone's 'behind closed doors' training methods and based purely on watching the tests, I don't like what I see. I haven't watched any pure dressage for a year or so and was hoping it would have improved. The horses look SO tense with such short, overbent necks. The paces look artificial and forced and many of the horses seemed disconnected and lacking engagement. I didn't enjoy watching CDJ as much as I have in the past although the Brits are clearly the best of a bad lot.
Of course the riders are superbly talented and the horses are stunning but that seems irrelevant to me.
As for EG, he really worked the sob story when Totilas was sold and I think it bought him a lot of public sympathy. I never enjoyed watching that partnership either. Freaky front leg waving craziness.
How on earth does dressage go from this back to the glorious grace and harmony of times past? Do all sports that involve training of animals eventually descend into these extremes as we get closer and closer to 'perfection'?

 

[lindsayH]

Just to answer my own question: perhaps we should make them do it without bridles? That would certainly solve some of the welfare issues and test self carriage! It would also be a lot of fun to watch while they got the hang of it

 

[tristar]

ycbm.

true one swallow doesn't make a summer, but he has been accused of being an angel.

 

[ycbm]

ycbm.

he has been accused of being an angel.

I'd agree with that, he sounds gorgeous

 

[Goldenstar]

I watched the final few in the kur yesterday .
Valegro looked tired and flat and was lucky to win only his better transitions clinched it Nip and Tuck looked tired the beautiful beauiful horse ridden by the Spanish rider also looked like he was tiring and running on nervous energy .
Only Desperardos looked fresh , and I think he's going to be the one they challenging for that gold in Rio .
Is the format of the championship competition fair to the horses ?

 

[crabbymare]

Just to answer my own question: perhaps we should make them do it without bridles? That would certainly solve some of the welfare issues and test self carriage! It would also be a lot of fun to watch while they got the hang of it

It would be interesting to have tests where there were no nosebands allowed and snaffle bridles only :-D

 

[SaffronWelshDragon]

It would be interesting to have tests where there were no nosebands allowed and snaffle bridles only :-D

'Like'

 

[SpringArising]

Only Desperardos looked fresh , and I think he's going to be the one they challenging for that gold in Rio .

I was angry that Valegro placed over Desperados - even aside from him missing his changes twice, Kristina's test was the best one by far and the horse looked the most relaxed of the lot.

 

[Under-the-radar]

I was angry that Valegro placed over Desperados - even aside from him missing his changes twice, Kristina's test was the best one by far and the horse looked the most relaxed of the lot.

I completely agree with this - Valegro and CDJ were below par yesterday and you could see that CDJ was disappointed with the look on her face when she finished. She knew her performance (her performance - not the fault of the horse) was not as good as it could have been.

For what its worth, although they had the lowest score in the kur, I quite enjoyed watching the Portugese chap at the beginning.

To the OP - I don't love Edward Gal. However, I do have a lot of respect for his ability to sit on incredibly hot horses. I don't have respect for the training methods he uses and much prefer CH's methods. Yes - he probably did over play the sob story card when Totilas was sold - that said the horse was never lame when he was with EG but has had a catalogue of lameness issues since he has been with Rath. Maybe EG laid the foundation for these lameness issues - that is certainly a possibility. Or maybe, despite the training methods that EG uses, he had found a formula that worked for this horse, which Rath was unable to replicate and so has had problems ever since. Lets face it, whether you like EG or not, Totilas has never performed for Rath like he did for Gal.

 

[spacefaer]

How on earth does dressage go from this back to the glorious grace and harmony of times past? Do all sports that involve training of animals eventually descend into these extremes as we get closer and closer to 'perfection'?

What glorious grace and harmony?

Dressage is a development of a demonstration of control for warfare and bullfighting. Neither are particularly graceful or harmonious.

With what rose tinted spectacles are you viewing the past? And which past? How far back are you going?

 

[Fellewell]

In 2009/10 Totilas was lauded as 'the horse of the century'. He was certainly Gal's horse of a lifetime, small wonder he was upset.

I do feel people are being a little unsporting, judges are looking for more than tempi changes (which have been sticky all comp tbh). Charlotte's test was judged as technically superior. Valegro may be a little sour but I'm sure they're aware of this. Well done all!

 

[Jo_x]

Just to answer my own question: perhaps we should make them do it without bridles? That would certainly solve some of the welfare issues and test self carriage! It would also be a lot of fun to watch while they got the hang of it

There's a lovely video somewhere of Isabel Werth riding Satchmo bareback in a headcollar, doing some very impressive dressage!

I imagine it would be quite amusing to watch in an atmospheric stadium though!

 

[Cortez]

Edward Gal is a superb rider, he produces horse after horse at GP performing in an incredibly athletic, spectacular fashion. I don't like his alleged methods, but his riding is wonderful. I think most of you would be shocked if you could be a fly on the wall at ANY top level dressage training establishment - these kind of performances are not produced by hacking and turnout..............

 

[puppystitch]

If showjumpers can do it, I don't see why dressage can't. I'd much rather attempt dressage without a bridle than jumping!

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/feat...anyway-meet-the-bridleless-leather-bit-498319

 

[Tnavas]

He trained him in the same way as the link I attached. I don't care what records he broke, it's cruel! Totilas was never allowed to work in a relaxed free manner in the same way Valegro or Carl's horses can. That's worthy of records. levering a horses head to it's chest is not talent.

Despite the way he was trained (if this is true) Totilas was one horse that looked calm and relaxed through all his tests, his tail was held in comfort not swishing and twisting like the majority of top level horses.

 

[tristar]

I think history shows that dressage, done well, preserves the soundness of the horse and brings out the best in the horse, balance, ability to move effortlessly to the smallest whisper from the rider.

I don`t know about bullfighting but the vaqueros horse`s are a superb example of an animal bred for purpose, and doma vaquera competitions at top level are spellbinding compared to the drudgery performed by some comp dressage horses, but then maybe the Iberian riders are better to start with, more natural in their posture, in a way that aids the horse to perform, its not control, its about not ruining what a good horse can offer naturally, the horse already knows what to do.

I would have loved to see an Iberian rider or a lightweight lady ride totilas and offer him the freedom from the oppressive seat and hands so often seen.

 

[Booboos]

Gosh what a load of silly remarks on this thread!

Valegro as a young horse was known to piss off across Addington's arenas, was his tension the result of Charlotte's crappy riding and awful training techniques?

Tortillas was at his peak when trained by EG in rolkur, his problems started when he swapped to MR's classical German style and started to improve when MR got help from Sven. What does that say about rolkur?

EG has said repeatedly that his horses are standardly turned out and hacked but that Totilas went bonkers every time he was turned out so they had to give up. Ever had to change your approach to something you thought was gospel because the horse had not read the same rule book as you?

There are no studies that show the rolkur is harmful to the horse. Setting up a website, posting photos and weeping does not a scientific study make. Please do not even mention DrH (who feels his book sales are rather low and has embarked on a new welfare campaign) as the evidence of his riding (if you can find the photos he so litigious lay had removed from the Internet) is beyond dire.

 

[shortstuff99]

Actually there is, this link also contains links to further research. http://horsetalk.co.nz/2015/08/07/hyperflexion-thumbs-down-equitation-scientists/#axzz3ivIq8Bcp

It states there are currently 42 published studies that focus on the effects of head position with 88% of them saying its detrimental.

 

[Tnavas]

Scientific studies have also been proven not to be correct either, take for example the drug Thalidomide, scientists said it was safe to give pregnant women the drug to treat morning sickness, 6 or so months later the first child was born minus limbs!

A photo is just a split second in time, I'm sure we've all ridden a horse that ducks behind the contact, some more than others.

We can all speculate as to why the horse is now unsound, from a stone bruise to damaged ligaments/tendons or how he was ridden as a youngster, or he could have goofed around in the paddock and slipped.

We will never know!

 

[ester]

Scientific studies have also been proven not to be correct either, take for example the drug Thalidomide, scientists said it was safe to give pregnant women the drug to treat morning sickness, 6 or so months later the first child was born minus limbs!

A photo is just a split second in time, I'm sure we've all ridden a horse that ducks behind the contact, some more than others.

There's plenty of videos too

 

[shortstuff99]

But Thalidamide IS a safe drug and is still used widely to treat many conditions it's not safe for a developing foetus. 55 studies is a large amount if you saying they are all wrong then how can anything progress?

 

[Tnavas]

But Thalidamide IS a safe drug and is still used widely to treat many conditions it's not safe for a developing foetus. 55 studies is a large amount if you saying they are all wrong then how can anything progress?

Do you eat products with SOY in them? If so read the extensive reports on the negative side of the food

 

[lindsayH]

Gawd bless H&H, only here could you start with Edward Gal and end up at Thalidamide

As for those saying Totilas was more successful with EG and top dressage horses aren't made by turnout/hacking and Rolkur works etc. I don't think anyone's disagreeing with you. That's kind of the point....
It isn't entirely fair to blame the riders when that's what gets results. It remains the case that many horsemen/women find modern top level dressage uncomfortable viewing.

To the person who wanted to know which rose tinted glasses I was wearing: I'm afraid I can't remember where I bought them but you're welcome to borrow them any time

I don't think there is a lot of rubbish on this thread, I think there have been some well made points from all points of view.

 

[shortstuff99]

Do you eat products with SOY in them? If so read the extensive reports on the negative side of the food

No I don't tend to eat SoY but not being an adolescent boy I'm probably okay to have small amounts! Lol

 

[Chloe..x]

I love Edward Gal as the following are quite possibly among the best test I have ever seen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT6Yn7SLkmQc @ Windsor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEvGcIVoHW4 @ Olympia

 

[Wheels]

There are no studies that show the rolkur is harmful to the horse.

When I see photos or videos of horses being ridden in rollkur, the look in their eyes tells me all I need to know

 

[Meowy Catkin]

This is an interesting article and it does reference a study about nuchal ligament illnesses (sic).

http://www.sustainabledressage.net/rollkur/why_not.php

 

[elliefiz]

I've seen posts here and on social media justifying RK and how EG is the best rider, shouldn't be abused by so called keyboard warriors, etc as its bad for the sport of dressage. It brings to mind the support Lance Armstrong had in cycling when it was first mentioned that he was doping for success. Or the support certain trainers of Tennessee Walking Horses received because their horses were winning so couldn't possibly be treated cruelly. How the people willing to stand up and say I think this is wrong were called trolls and were just jealous, etc, etc. What's the favourite insult thrown at anyone who dares criticise a top rider? Oh yes, who are you to comment, you can't ride that well. In the case of the top dressage riders, no I certainly can't. There's plenty I wouldn't want to ride like either. But I breed dressage horses and it means I have an interest in their welfare and the direction the sport goes in. Would I give one of my horses to EG? Not in a million years. I would rather they stayed in a field and did nothing. The list of riders and trainers I wouldn't let near one of my horses has grown longer due to comments I've seen over the past few days. In some cases it's been very disappointing as I would have thought certain people knew better. Instead of turning on the thousands of people who were horrified by what happened at Aachen, trainers, riders and officials involved in every level at dressage should look at what is blackening the sport and take action.

I read on Facebook a comment by a noted dressage trainer that people who were criticising EG were just bitter and looking for something to be nasty about because they have no lives of their own. Seriously?? I have 8 mares in foal to top dressage stallions, I have foals on the ground bred to be future dressage stars. If the sport of dressage goes tits up I have no market to sell my horses to. But I also love my horses and worry that they may end up in a situation where they are mistreated in the name of "training". I'm also willing to stand up and be counted if that's what is needed for things to change for the better.

Are the means justified by the end? If you win at any cost does that mean it's acceptable to treat a living animal badly to achieve YOUR ultimate goal? Its most certainly not a case of ignorance is bliss because it's widely acknowledged that RK is detrimental to a horse's well being. The arrogance of EG, who hasn't even bothered to put out any sort of statement to justify his treatment of the horse is astounding. It seems that he just doesn't care. And that's just really very sad.

 

[Marydoll]

When I see photos or videos of horses being ridden in rollkur, the look in their eyes tells me all I need to know

I completely agree, and tbh if any rider at top level in dressage isnt capable of riding a horse in lightness and harmony without resorting to training by winching in the head and neck a la rollkur imo they shouldnt be at the top.

 

[Marydoll]

I've seen posts here and on social media justifying RK and how EG is the best rider, shouldn't be abused by so called keyboard warriors, etc as its bad for the sport of dressage. It brings to mind the support Lance Armstrong had in cycling when it was first mentioned that he was doping for success. Or the support certain trainers of Tennessee Walking Horses received because their horses were winning so couldn't possibly be treated cruelly. How the people willing to stand up and say I think this is wrong were called trolls and were just jealous, etc, etc. What's the favourite insult thrown at anyone who dares criticise a top rider? Oh yes, who are you to comment, you can't ride that well. In the case of the top dressage riders, no I certainly can't. There's plenty I wouldn't want to ride like either. But I breed dressage horses and it means I have an interest in their welfare and the direction the sport goes in. Would I give one of my horses to EG? Not in a million years. I would rather they stayed in a field and did nothing. The list of riders and trainers I wouldn't let near one of my horses has grown longer due to comments I've seen over the past few days. In some cases it's been very disappointing as I would have thought certain people knew better. Instead of turning on the thousands of people who were horrified by what happened at Aachen, trainers, riders and officials involved in every level at dressage should look at what is blackening the sport and take action.

I read on Facebook a comment by a noted dressage trainer that people who were criticising EG were just bitter and looking for something to be nasty about because they have no lives of their own. Seriously?? I have 8 mares in foal to top dressage stallions, I have foals on the ground bred to be future dressage stars. If the sport of dressage goes tits up I have no market to sell my horses to. But I also love my horses and worry that they may end up in a situation where they are mistreated in the name of "training". I'm also willing to stand up and be counted if that's what is needed for things to change for the better.

Are the means justified by the end? If you win at any cost does that mean it's acceptable to treat a living animal badly to achieve YOUR ultimate goal? Its most certainly not a case of ignorance is bliss because it's widely acknowledged that RK is detrimental to a horse's well being. The arrogance of EG, who hasn't even bothered to put out any sort of statement to justify his treatment of the horse is astounding. It seems that he just doesn't care. And that's just really very sad.

This needs a like button to pushed a hundred times over