Why does your horse have to change diet when shoes come off? makes no sense.

can someone tell.me.please why alfalfa is not recommended?

If you check on a barefoot forum you will find that there are quite a number of people with horses which produce laminitic symptoms and/or go footie when fed alfalfa. It seems to be a bit binary, horses either do fine with it or they don't.

So if anyone has a footie horse and is feeding alfalfa, it seems sensible to stop the alfalfa and see if it makes a difference.
 
After enjoying all the banter earlier on in the thread, I'm now intrigued - my 22yo horse is going to retire soon and I'm planning to take his shoes off but now wondering what preparations I should be making. Would the ad lib haylage/hay he gets in winter (he lives out all year round) along with grass be enough? I've always been a fibre feeder with him anyway but have to admit I haven't really researched links between diet and hoof growth. He does have thin walls and has always been very footy without shoes and I'd accepted that if the shoes came off then I wouldn't be hacking him out.

Any suggestions?
 
I did wonder if OP had got her CAPS key stuck...............

Once knew an (ex) ILPH person who was also BHS Instructor - they exhibited similar behaviours.

Knew naff all about how to feed horses.

Oh that's it CAPS stuck now I get it ,I am ( well don't know if i should say was as I don't teach anymore) a BHS trained instructor and I was a welfare officer for one of the big charities as well I spat coffee all over my key board when I read that it was so irrelevant to the subject.
 
You will struggle with the science as it is mostly all mumbo jumbo.

Feed companies use balancing software according the recommendations made by the NRC (2007).

Most of the advice regarding nutrition for horses and the research comes from the 1970s and 1980s or based on theory from experimentation with other mammals or just pure conjecture.

For example - Vitamin A was studied extensively in horses and so feed companies regularly over supplement that. Lysine is one of the most researched essential amino acid - so that is added in most things......

Hence feeding horses is more an art than a science.

You can look at the research being done by Dr Katy Watts on different types of grasses and how non structural carbohydrates (NSCs) affect horses.
http://www.safergrass.org/articles.html

You can look at the recommendations by Dr Kellon on how to rebalance diet.
http://www.drkellon.com/

You can look at the research by Dr Chris Pollitt on laminitis and hooves

http://www.laminitisresearch.org/chrispollitt_publications1.htm

To summarise his work - he induced acute laminitis in Standardbreds and then euthanised them at various stages.

He found that even those horses who were euthanised BEFORE showing any acute symptoms still showed damage to the laminae.
He has concluded that the death of the fibre fermenting bacteria in the hind gut releases toxins, which form enzymes that 'eat' the laminae and cause it to fail.

Why does this happen? We still have no freaking clue......

But it's a start ;).

So how does this relate hooves in terms of diet?

Years ago SOME horses could go barefoot easily and SOME couldn't.

We didn't know why.

Then people started experimenting with diet and started feeding 'Magic Barefoot Powder' (seaweed, linseed and brewer's yeast) rather than commercial mixes.

Horses mostly responded well to this...but some still struggled.

Then people started looking at mineral balancing. Inspired by the dairy industry in the US, who would demand an analysis before parting with cash on hay and then would feed a mineral supplement specially made to fit the hay they'd just bought.

And suddenly those horses who were really difficult to keep barefoot, always needed boots to be ridden, and went footy in the spring - became happy and sound!

As far as I am aware - there is no current scientific evidence to support this...but merely thousands of horse owners all over the world who have found it's helped their horses.

The Cushings and Insulin Resistance Yahoo Group has many files of information about this.

So why does diet mean 'more' to barefoot horses than shod?

Have you noticed that shod hooves are colder and grow slower than barefoot?

I can waffle on about the hoof mechanism and loading versus unloading but in simple terms, as well as lifting the hooves off the floor, the shoes decrease the circulation (and additionally nerve function - but that is currently still a theory) and therefore provide an anaesthetic effect. Inflammation of the laminae will be reduced if blood supply is reduced (which is why cryotherapy is recommended for laminitis cause by a systemic inflammatory disease).

I have witnessed a horse with obvious insulin resistance potter around on sore bare hooves and then stride out sound and happy ten minutes later when shoes are put on. Horse is still insulin resistant and hooves are still sick - but he doesn't feel it any more.

The answer for you (IMO) is that if your horse has an appropriate diet (for them) and has no problems - then the diet doesn't need to change.

But knowing that the hooves are directly affected by diet (as pointed out by the researchers listed above) then it is wise to review if a horse IS having problems - shiny coat or not.

I can appreciate your frustration and that you may feel patronised - but we are giving advice blindly on a forum and that comes with dangers.

You will find the Barefoot Taliban on HHO take the safety and comfort of the other poster's horses very seriously and always give as much advice as possible to make life without shoes painless.

No one wants to hear about lame horses gimping about - so we bang on about diet to try and prevent that because it is simply not necessary for horses to suffer when a simple tinker with diet can help.

Hope this helps :)

Can I just say that this one of the most reasoned, informative, supportive posts I have ever read on HHO. The rest of this thread makes for pretty unedifying reading, but it was worth trawling through the dreck to read this little gem.

P
 
After enjoying all the banter earlier on in the thread, I'm now intrigued - my 22yo horse is going to retire soon and I'm planning to take his shoes off but now wondering what preparations I should be making. Would the ad lib haylage/hay he gets in winter (he lives out all year round) along with grass be enough? I've always been a fibre feeder with him anyway but have to admit I haven't really researched links between diet and hoof growth. He does have thin walls and has always been very footy without shoes and I'd accepted that if the shoes came off then I wouldn't be hacking him out.

Any suggestions?



My suggestions are yeast, either brewers or yea-sacc, because when I got a batch that they wouldn't eat last year two of my three horses at the time went footie. And magnesium oxide because so many people report that it helps, and it's very cheap if bought as Calmag/calcined magnesite from a farm supplies shop. Look around you for red-brown cows that you think should be black, or horses, and if you see any, supplement copper as well.


50g BY
or 15g yea-sacc (it's live so you need less)

and

25 g MgO.
 
My suggestions are yeast, either brewers or yea-sacc, because when I got a batch that they wouldn't eat last year two of my three horses at the time went footie. And magnesium oxide because so many people report that it helps, and it's very cheap if bought as Calmag/calcined magnesite from a farm supplies shop. Look around you for red-brown cows that you think should be black, or horses, and if you see any, supplement copper as well.


50g BY
or 15g yea-sacc (it's live so you need less)

and

25 g MgO.


Thanks for your help. Strange you should mention the red-brown coats as two of the black horses we have at the yard have that, I just thought it was fading off the sun, had no idea it could be linked to copper (feeling a bit dim now!). What would be the best feed to mix supplements in with, any recommendations? I fed him Ready Mash Extra last winter which he really enjoyed, is that suitable?
 
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