NoseyPosey
Well-Known Member
Exactly, you've avoided the subject of how certain breeds are to survive without breeding so I'm asking how you propose they do if everybody was to stop using breeders and got rescue dogs instead?
Why dont people get dogs from rescues?!
- Thread starter 111ex111
- Start date
Exactly, you've avoided the subject of how certain breeds are to survive without breeding so I'm asking how you propose they do if everybody was to stop using breeders and got rescue dogs instead?
111ex111
Well-Known Member
This has been said before I know but the OP is only young and I suspect will develop a more balanced outlook as she goes through life. I really don't understand the anti breeder stance, just what does it achieve. Someone recently shared a link with me to a fb page entitled "I hate dog breeders", charming eh
Stopping breeding for even 5 years would wipe out some breeds. In Lancashire Heelers there were only 98 puppies registered last year,stop breeding them for 5 years and not many more years after that there wouldn't be any left, is that what you really want for some of the vulnerable breeds hollieb?
saying im only young is a bit patronising as I am 17 and my whole life is my dogs and I have a lot of knowledge on breeders & rescue centres. Obviously, my opinion may change in 40 years time but at the moment and in the foreseeable future I will always support Rescues- as I said my dogs are my whole life.
I would never say "I hate dog breeders" or put in the effort to make a silly facebook page- of course that achieves nothing. As I have said before I cannot do anything about breeders- all I can do is share my views and hope that people will go for a rescue dog rather than from a breeder.
Of course I dont want the vulnerable breeds to die out- what a silly thing to imply!! but at this very time there are way too many dogs in the world as it is
Auslander
Well-Known Member
Could you explain your concept of a breeder? As I said in my post, there are breeders of quality over quantity - like my father, and there are, essentially, puppy farmers. Then there are those who are out to make a fast buck.
What do you think of when you think breeder?
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NoseyPosey
Well-Known Member
No, there are too many of some dogs in this world and not enough of others.
111ex111
Well-Known Member
definitely not avoiding the subject, there are so many opinions on here im just trying to get my head around all of them and take them into consideration.
Its an interesting point and as I said I am not an expert in specific breeds. I did however see a documentary once showing how rare breeds have a lot of health problems because somewhere a long the line they have been inbred. and by carrying on breeding these dogs it will get worse and worse
111ex111
Well-Known Member
I guess its not just the breeders- its also the people who buy from them. of course breeding is always going to happen. when I think of a breeder I think of all types- quality breeders, puppy farms and people who have maybe 1 litter.
the main thing I was trying to get to in this thread was why people STILL go to breeders for labs, whippets, grey hounds, German Shepards etc etc etc when there are so so so many of these breeds in rescues.
111ex111
Well-Known Member
5 seconds on this website and I have found 5 breeds that are not stereotypically in rescues. oh and very young puppies
http://www.manytearsrescue.org/display_mtar_dog.php?id=5224
http://www.manytearsrescue.org/display_mtar_dog.php?id=592
http://www.manytearsrescue.org/display_mtar_dog.php?id=5223
http://www.manytearsrescue.org/display_mtar_dog.php?id=5192
http://www.manytearsrescue.org/display_mtar_dog.php?id=5257
http://www.manytearsrescue.org/display_mtar_dog.php?id=5224
http://www.manytearsrescue.org/display_mtar_dog.php?id=592
http://www.manytearsrescue.org/display_mtar_dog.php?id=5223
http://www.manytearsrescue.org/display_mtar_dog.php?id=5192
http://www.manytearsrescue.org/display_mtar_dog.php?id=5257
Auslander
Well-Known Member
And my point is that it's unfair to place the blame for the amount of dogs in rescues on the shoulders of breeders who breed a specific breed carefully for quality. People like my father. Relatively speaking, there are far fewer specific breeds in rescues than there are cross-breeds - except for the fashion breeds like staffies obv. People who want a well bred dog with a decent pedigree for showing/working etc, are not likely to find one in a rescue, and puppies like that tend to be snapped up, and not passed on. You can't tar all breeders with the same brush - the good ones are responding to a specific requirement, that cannot be met by a rescue.
Campaign against indiscriminate breeding by all means, but please don't make out that all breeders are bad.
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
I realise my comment re your age may appear patronising, I was merely using it to try and understand your ,imo, over zealous opinions. I am sorry but at 17 I really don't think you can have a lot of knowledge about breeders and you have rather demonstrated this. You say it is silly to imply you want vulnerable breeds to die out, yet you have stated you don't agree with breeding full stop, which to me does imply you would like it to stop.
NoseyPosey
Well-Known Member
So now you've considered it, do you still not agree with breeding FULL STOP?
and a lot of rare breeds don't have any problems at all through proper breeding. Which is exactly the reason we still need proper breeders. As mentioned before, we have bred (and will in the future) working beardied collies because the working aspect and look is dying out due to the selective nature of show (KC) beardie breeding. So by carrying on breeding of these dogs responsibly, it will get better. Your site doesn't even list "my" breed in the dropdown box which enforces my point.
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
Two of those are not "breeds" they are crosses, and with the exception of the 8 week old pups all appear to have some problems, which is what people have been saying. As you are aware from your posts in AAD, many people believe MT rescue could actually do more to stop puppy farming, so maybe they are not the best example to use.
111ex111
Well-Known Member
maybe not as much knowledge as some people, but enough and I dont think its fair you mention this? I have said time and time again I am not an expert on rare/specific breeds and do not claim to be. However, I do not agree with breeding when there are so many dogs on the PTS list each day.
of course I still do not agree with breeding. everyone has their opinions and im happy to consider them however at this very moment in time I doubt my opinion will change
111ex111
Well-Known Member
It was just an example of different types of dogs you CAN find in rescues, so in fact it was a good example.
NoseyPosey
Well-Known Member
So are you happy for some dog breeds to die out then?
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Without breeders there would be no dogs .
I want to chose the enviroment and parents my dogs have come from I want to train my dog from the start not unpick some wallys mistakes I have spent a lot of my life unpicking other people's errors with horses I chose not to do it with dogs.
I there's no way I am ever going to submit myself to idiocy my poor SIL submitted herself to when she decided to replace her old boy with a rescue and was turned down in the most patronising way because she works one hour five days a week the fact she has another lab and walks it hours a day passed the idiot doing the assessment by.
It's clear from the story's here that my SIL story is not unusual so quite a lot of people posting here would never get a dog if they went to a rescue what you want them to do do without a dog .
I am proud I rescued the lurcher I posted about earlier it was living rough and various people had seen it the dog warden scared it death with pole and nooses and things I was on crutches and followed it until it was so exhausted ( it had a dislocated hip ) it chose to stop because it literally could not face moving again
We then realised it would not let my OH pick it up and of course it was in pain so I had to not easy with a broken leg ( me I mean I had a broken leg at the time)
At that point I could have takes it to a local vet and dumped it to its fate but I paid them to fix her up and got her a home with my mum and dad .
But I don't think Yassa that's what we called her is any more deserving of the lovely home she has with mum and dad than my labs that where bred in a shooting family's home.
I have the right to chose, I like running dogs and have considered often getting a greyhound if I get one I will go directly to someone who races them and get one off the track I won't go to a rescue I have not the time or inclination to deal with the interview process until these shelters train the people doing assessments better and don't treat the potential owners so badly lots of dogs are going to stay in shelters that people like me might have considered.
s4sugar
Well-Known Member
Have you ever dealt with a breeder? A real breeder with a love for the breed?
The links you post are to a puppy farm outlet not to a breeder. If people could be educated to stop buying the products of these places then fewer dogs would be in rescue.
Most dogs in rescue are there because the people handing them in had unrealistic expectations and the dog didn't come ready trained. Some are in for breakups, loss of Jobs/homes. Most dogs rehomed through the latter soon fit in to new homes but few dogs handed in have been abused except those through the clearing houses that help puppy farms or the RSPCA.
I am always amazed when I get a new client who makes excuses for their dog's bad habit because "it was rescued" -sorry , it is usually lack of training or often re-enforcement of negative behaviour.
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111ex111
Well-Known Member
are you happy for thousands of healthy, happy dogs to be put to sleep each week?
not everyone can win
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
No of course no ones happy but it's going at the issue backwards to think that people who buy dogs from good breeders and keep them all there lives without an issue and pay all the dogs costs until they die are why dogs are in rescues. It's the idiots who buy poorly bred dogs with bad temperaments and from unsound parents dont know how much work it takes to train a puppy how much commitment to walk them everyday in all weathers these are people causing the issues.
Auslander
Well-Known Member
Another thought, having had a look at the MTAR site. I'd be very dubious about somewhere which has a list of dogs described as a particular breed, which clearly aren't. There is a "Welsh Springer" on there who is no more a welshie than I'm Ecuadorian, and several others who state that they are a particular breed, but look decidedly crossbreed to me. Either they are very poor examples of the breed, or the organisation are just guessing. Another good reason to go to a breeder if you are looking for a specific breed/type.
Auslander
Well-Known Member
Agree - I tried to say the same in some of my previous posts, but not quite as clearly!
SadKen
Well-Known Member
Seems to me then that as a start we need:
1. The continuation of breeding by responsible and well informed breeders to create happy, healthy and well adjusted dogs.
2. More information/education to help people avoid buying puppy farmed dogs, and to encourage people to buy from a responsible breeder. That'll avoid the purchase of dogs which are poorly bred, and encourage people to buy dogs that they can look after.
3. More support from rescues at the application stage and a more reasonable attitude regarding rescuers working!
I wonder if amongst those who have less funds available, the difficulty of getting a suitable dog (or any dog!) from a rescue has resulted in an increase of breeding of poor quality dogs and puppy farms? After all, if you want a dog and you don't have a huge amount of cash, you might feel that rescues won't entertain you, and go and spend £50 on a puppy that's been poorly bred rather than having no dog. Sad state of affairs if so.
1. The continuation of breeding by responsible and well informed breeders to create happy, healthy and well adjusted dogs.
2. More information/education to help people avoid buying puppy farmed dogs, and to encourage people to buy from a responsible breeder. That'll avoid the purchase of dogs which are poorly bred, and encourage people to buy dogs that they can look after.
3. More support from rescues at the application stage and a more reasonable attitude regarding rescuers working!
I wonder if amongst those who have less funds available, the difficulty of getting a suitable dog (or any dog!) from a rescue has resulted in an increase of breeding of poor quality dogs and puppy farms? After all, if you want a dog and you don't have a huge amount of cash, you might feel that rescues won't entertain you, and go and spend £50 on a puppy that's been poorly bred rather than having no dog. Sad state of affairs if so.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
no but they have come from puppy mills... breeders that you can be assured will not have health tested the parents.
Why set yourself up for potential heartbreak and vet bills when you can purchase a much better quality version of the breed?
Copperpot
Well-Known Member
If you can't afford the £150 adoption fee and choose to spend £50 on a puppy instead, how will you afford said puppy's injections and neutering?
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Exactly ester .
SadKen
Well-Known Member
I absolutely concur with this but I think some folks will buy puppies without having the funds for injections etc, because they want a puppy. I'm certainly not defending that - please don't think I am - it's a tragedy and ultra-selfish. Was just wondering in my post above whether this is partly why they buy a puppy rather than rescuing though, which perpetuates the cycle.
Dotty123
Active Member
I think rescues should tell people that black cats are lucky. As this is what i have always thought.
Copperpot
Well-Known Member
It does SadKen. And what's worse is those same people will probably breed from that puppy to make money, sell the puppies cheap and the cycle continues 
Stopper
Well-Known Member
We didn't cause the breed that we want they didn't have!!but only a small place near us and we knew the breeders well so just got her
Jools1234
Well-Known Member
for all of you discussing reputable breeders of pedigree dogs-i do not want a pedigree dog, the kennel club have a lot to answer for and many breeder have breeds that follow the breed standard but the breed standard and in/line breeding is what causes the problems that you are talking about good breeders testing for-its a bit circular for my liking
examples
cavaliers with skulls too small for the brain
bull dogs that cannot give birth with cesarian (how that can ever be classed as responsible breeding i do not know)
breeds that cannot breath properly
those with inherited heart conditions
hip and elbow displaysia in many many breeds
skin problems in westies, poodles, bassetsetc etc etc
what i am saying is all the inherited problems were created by breeding to a standard (pedigree), i agree good breeders are trying to do something about it and that the designer breeds (1st crosses) often have problems from one or both sides of their gene pool, but maybe the only responsible way to breed would be to stop breeding pedigrees/to a standard and breed for purpose
dogs bred for purpose would be your lurchers and working (not pedigree) terriers, these dogs rarely have health problems,
this is 'a cat among the pidgeons' post i am aware of that, but my mutts have always been healthy but i have never had a first cross or pedigree and i dont think i ever would
examples
cavaliers with skulls too small for the brain
bull dogs that cannot give birth with cesarian (how that can ever be classed as responsible breeding i do not know)
breeds that cannot breath properly
those with inherited heart conditions
hip and elbow displaysia in many many breeds
skin problems in westies, poodles, bassetsetc etc etc
what i am saying is all the inherited problems were created by breeding to a standard (pedigree), i agree good breeders are trying to do something about it and that the designer breeds (1st crosses) often have problems from one or both sides of their gene pool, but maybe the only responsible way to breed would be to stop breeding pedigrees/to a standard and breed for purpose
dogs bred for purpose would be your lurchers and working (not pedigree) terriers, these dogs rarely have health problems,
this is 'a cat among the pidgeons' post i am aware of that, but my mutts have always been healthy but i have never had a first cross or pedigree and i dont think i ever would
NoseyPosey
Well-Known Member
If I was, I would have started a thread entitled "Why don't people get pedigree dogs from breeders instead of mongrels from rescue centres?". I'm not saying rescue centres are bad. If you want certain breeds of dog or aren't bothered about specific breeds then by all means visit a rescue centre but if everybody did that then certain breeds of dog would die out.
I'm not the one blanket-suggesting that all dog breeding should stop, am I?