Why don't people let their horses drop off in winter?

The Xmas Furry said:
If I let mine drop off, by now I'd possibly have a hat-rack from hunting............
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The one time I had a complete disaster (hands-up, I got it completely wrong), I hunted one of my laid-back, grass-kept good-doers 3 or 4 half-days. He was fed a little extra, but obviously not enough for the increased metabolism caused by hunting. It put so much fire in his belly that he was a different horse just in the field. His weight fell off a cliff, and I spent the rest of the winter trying (fairly unsucessfully) to get it back on, throwing barley and linseed down him like it was going out of fashion.
 
I've seen numerous natives get a little too fat in summer and a little too thin in winter and *gasp* they've been fine. For my current equine I rely on winter to slim her down as once spring comes, there's no way she wouldn't put weight on once she gets a sniff of spring grass. As with all things, moderation is key. It's the obese/hatrack ponies that have health problems, not the ones with a bit of weight fluctuation.
 
pennyturner said:
The one time I had a complete disaster (hands-up, I got it completely wrong), I hunted one of my laid-back, grass-kept good-doers 3 or 4 half-days. He was fed a little extra, but obviously not enough for the increased metabolism caused by hunting. It put so much fire in his belly that he was a different horse just in the field. His weight fell off a cliff, and I spent the rest of the winter trying (fairly unsucessfully) to get it back on, throwing barley and linseed down him like it was going out of fashion.
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Luckily I know my horse well enough to know this won't happen (been hunting and low and behold it didn't)
 
A grass belly ime is one which will disappear within 24 hours ish if grazing is restricted. It's a result of rich grass causing gassiness not poor quality forage afaik?

Mine gets tubby in summer, and slimmer in winter at all weights he is capable of what I ask of him. Although I do remember on good summer/autumn when he got too big, but was still ok to go round the hunter trials, just when I look at the pics I cringe :o
 
A feral horse does not graze in a paddock 24/7. They roam, they forage for food and interact with the herd. quite different from a good doer in a small paddock who only needs to mooch a few paces inbetween mouthfuls.

A domestic horse not in work is unfit with a metabolism that is more sluggish than a fit, feral horse who covers many miles a day.

There's no comparison.

A well exercised horse fed appropriately all year round is less likely to get IR, lamimitis or EMS than a field ornament allowed to gain excess weight in summer and left hungry in winter.
A well managed horse is less likely to be metabolically stressed by the famine/feast style of management.

Leaving your horse hungry so it drops weight in winter is a pretty miserable care plan.
 
All but one of mine come off hard feed over the winter and are just pumped full of hay and or haylage. if anything since I started this my eventer does better over winter, and doesnt drop condition as much.
 
MerrySherryRider said:
A feral horse does not graze in a paddock 24/7. They roam, they forage for food and interact with the herd. quite different from a good doer in a small paddock who only needs to mooch a few paces inbetween mouthfuls.

A domestic horse not in work is unfit with a metabolism that is more sluggish than a fit, feral horse who covers many miles a day.

There's no comparison.

A well exercised horse fed appropriately all year round is less likely to get IR, lamimitis or EMS than a field ornament allowed to gain excess weight in summer and left hungry in winter.
A well managed horse is less likely to be metabolically stressed by the famine/feast style of management.

Leaving your horse hungry so it drops weight in winter is a pretty miserable care plan.
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Who said they left their horse hungry?
In fact...quite clearly , both OP and myself said we gave ad lib hay. We simply do not over rug, allowing the horse to use their own fat reserves to keep warm.
My horses are happy warm and healthy, they are not starved nor do they drop condition.
 
MerrySherryRider said:
A well exercised horse fed appropriately all year round is less likely to get IR, lamimitis or EMS than a field ornament allowed to gain excess weight in summer and left hungry in winter.
A well managed horse is less likely to be metabolically stressed by the famine/feast style of management.
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Do you have a link to research that backs up that claim or is that your opinion?
 
I wish she would drop off over the winter - I have to restrict her forage even in the middle of winter as she piles on the pounds from ad lib hay/haylage.
 
The latest veterinary advice is that horses that are overweight or carrying a bit too much weight should definitely be allowed to drop that over winter, so that they go into spring lean (eg a condition score around 2.5-2.75).

Obviously you have to use your common sense and if your horse goes into winter at an ideal condition score (3) then just let it drop a little if it is prone to gaining weight in summer. If the horse goes into winter at a lower than 3 condition score then of course there is no need to let them drop weight.

The problem is not horses who are maintained at a healthy weight all year round (although it begs the question how many of your horses are actually at an ideal weight, and how many are actually overweight), the problem is horses who are maintained at too high a weight all year round because it is seen as some form of neglect if you don't rug, feed etc.
 
pennyturner said:
The one time I had a complete disaster (hands-up, I got it completely wrong), I hunted one of my laid-back, grass-kept good-doers 3 or 4 half-days. He was fed a little extra, but obviously not enough for the increased metabolism caused by hunting. It put so much fire in his belly that he was a different horse just in the field. His weight fell off a cliff, and I spent the rest of the winter trying (fairly unsucessfully) to get it back on, throwing barley and linseed down him like it was going out of fashion.
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Which is why mine is fed according to the work being done, upping if required as the work is upped :)
 
I have some horses who are fed hardfeed during the winter and some who aren't. Most of the horses here hold the perfect weight nicely throughout the year. Some of them (having had them here for 8/9 years) I know will put on some weight once the spring grass comes through so these ones are always fed lower quality ad-lib hay during winter and no hard feed and they drop a little weight, which is exactly what I want, then by summer they look nicely covered but not fat. The old horses, broodmares and youngsters are all fed hardfeed during the winter as I like them to hold their weight all year round. All horses here live out 24/7/365 so they get plenty of exercise.

Horses are designed to fluctuate in weight and I have no problem with it for the greater long term good. I'd far rather horses be a little underweight than overweight tbh
 
I don't know about anyone else but I don't let my horse "drop off" in the winter because I don't want him to be a hat rack - he is in medium work, is fully clipped, is a poor doer/isn't fat going into winter, is on a high forage/fibre diet and is not fed ridiculous mixes . . . if he were a native and we weren't working him all winter I would let him grow a coat and rough him off - but he is a fine-coated, stressy sporthorse in a decent amount of work (including hunting) and I prefer to keep his weight consistant year round.

P
 
I like them to be min weight just before turnout, but like to keep weight on till February.
In the wild those who lose too much weight die..................
A light covering keeps them warmer.
And they need minerals all year round.
 
If I had a wild native off the mountains/moors then yes I would follow the natural cycle providing I wasn't doing anything exercise wise over winter. However, I have a native type, born domesticated and while has never had 'hard' feed (as in compound mixes) has had feed, is rugged and is in overnight in winter. He has however this year been gently roughed off and is now on a 6 week sabbatical before being de-furred and put onto a fittening program ready for Spring. However, he will still not have hard feed and will still be on his hay/straw rations and turnout. However as the fields are managed, the grass is inherently richer than he would have in the wild so to speak so will have his turnout onto grass limited accordingly.
 
samlf said:
The problem is not horses who are maintained at a healthy weight all year round (although it begs the question how many of your horses are actually at an ideal weight, and how many are actually overweight), the problem is horses who are maintained at too high a weight all year round because it is seen as some form of neglect if you don't rug, feed etc.
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^couldn't agree more^
 
MerrySherryRider said:
Really ?

There is a wealth of scientific papers on the role that exercise plays in increasing insulin sensitivity and reducing hyperinsulinaemia.

Its not news.
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Exercise yes, but that's not just what you were saying. You were saying that maintaining a constant weight was better than weight fluctuations. Just wondered what this was based on.
 
Most of my herd are shetlands, my grazing is purposely 'rough' to avoid excessive weight gain in summer but they do gain weight. In winter they still have grazing but obviously the nutritional content is low so they slowly drop weight. They aren't starving, I weigh tape them monthly to monitor and if they are dropping too quickly then they get more hay/haylage. Neither their weight gain or drop is extreme, it's slow and gradual. Keeping them this way means they get to stay out all year round in decent sized field and not muzzled, I think this is preferable to keeping them restricted and muzzled to keep their weight the same all year round.
 
Personally I think that we should strive to maintain a healthy weight all year round. That's easier said than done if you have really good grazing but I don't believe in letting my horses' weight fall off over winter simply to make my life easier. Instead, they have enough hay and feed to keep them reasonably covered in winter, and soaked hay, reduced hard feed and as little/much grass as they need in summer. I aim to change their feeding routines as little as possible all year round as mine are both good doers, the only exception being that my Connemara needs less hard feed if the grass is good. My Connemara is in work all year round therefore I want to keep him fit and well covered all year round. My welsh is retired but does inhand showing so I try to keep him at a constant weight, neither fat nor thin. He wears plenty of rugs, has two very small feeds a day and plenty of hay in winter and looks a good weight atm. I see no point in starving him so that he can gain lots of weight in summer, I'd rather try to keep his weight the same.
IMO there is little natural about modern day horse care, if my welsh a was in the wild he would probably have been eaten by an animal when he went lame so I don't subscribe to that philosophy.
 
But the point is not that it is the lazy way, and certainly nothing to do with starving (quite the opposite really - not over feeding!). This is the latest veterinary advice based on research - it is better to let a horse that is overweight lose weight over winter to enter spring lean, than try to maintain its weight all year round. Excessive fat tissue has been proven to create an inflammatory response and is linked to EMS. With some horses it really is not possible to avoid weight gain over summer, so your choice is maintain that over winter and risk laminitis etc, or monitor weight loss slowly and steadily over the season.
 
I would rather maintain a constant weight. I did this with my last coblet I aimed to keep her lean and fit all year round rather than let her get fat at anytime of the year. Before she was sold she was roughed off as I was going for my op and left to get hairy, she was on a poor winter paddock getting two slices of hay and whatever she could scrounge off the one getting a feed (lickings of the bowl) and was as round as butter. So my regime of clipping and riding was the only thing preventing her from gaining all the time, so imagine a winter of that?? I'd have had to have given her nothing to prevent her from gaining and I will not put an unclipped horse especially a double native cross into hard work unclipped, asking for skin problems IME which is exactly what happened with this wee mare.

People who let their horses get fat then let them winter it off aren't IMO doing them any good at all, horses aren't wild now we can't keep them as they would be in the wild so why have a go at folk who clip and rug all year round and aim to keep their horses weight constant than the constant yoyo-ing???

Live and let live IMO
 
Personally and from 50 years experience, research and attending laminitis clinics I prefer mine to be well fed but allowed to drop a considerable amount of weight in winter and avoid having to starve them by using muzzles and pocket handkerchief plots whenthe spring grass comes in. Mine tend to get tubby in summer are grazed year round on the same grass which stays lawn length year round they then lose weight so you can just feel their ribs grazing and being fed high fibre high protein feeds and a little hay in winter they probably start winter about a 3,5 on the scale and finish it about 2.5, They work daily have shiny healthy coats and are much happier that they were when they were in at night on hay and then were very restricted in summer. They are now ponies and are never hungry in the true sense of the word.
I hate muzzles with a passion as I feel the horse must be frustrated and hungry all the time so I am happy for mine to lose weight over winter so they are able to gain it back in the summer. The eldest horse I have is 19 and has never had any metabolic issues and has never had laminitis the only one ever to get it was the dartmoor gelding who is a pig and was let out of his short grass after I had been and was several hours on next doors hay field resul one very sick pony. He has temperament issues which are greatly exacerbated by being hungry and is much more difficult when strictly restricted in summer than he is when he joins the others on the big fields in winter
So in answer to your question OP I dont know why they dont it works for most and most certainly works for mine
but I do agree that starving weight or shivering weight off is mean and cruel
 
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The Xmas Furry said:
Which is why mine is fed according to the work being done, upping if required as the work is upped :)
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My point was that it was the change in ATTITUDE from hunting - caused him to suddenly go up a gear in the field - that changed what he needed, not the amount of work, which wasn't all that much!
 
In answer to the original question: I do think it's very hard to manage natives naturally in the postage-stamp sized paddocks which most people have. Bored, hungry horses who aren't moving around will shiver, fret and quickly pull themselves down.

However, the benefits (if you can find enough poor grazing to do it) of allowing them to roam and forage are immense. They're always moving, sociable with each other, and have nothing to fight over.

I disagree with those who say it's not possible to keep them like wild - to a point it is, but you must never forget that by putting a fence around them you've imposed an unnatural constraint. When you run out of grazing it's time to go get the hay...
 
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