why has my gelding suddenly started

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stormox

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CRIBBING? I have had him since he was 3, two years ago. He came from a herd and had always lived out, when I got him I stabled him, but I have one side of the stable made from a gate, his friends in there next door so they can scratch backs, etc. there is also a top door always open on the front, and a large opening at the back through which he can sniff noses with another friend. He is turned out for 4-5 hours each day, and usually gets an hours riding. He has ad-lib hay, a lick, and has never really had hard feed apart from alfalfa, beet pulp and half a scoop of competition mix a day. He was always a bit of a nibbler, of his leadrope etc. But for the first time last week I saw him grab the manger and crib-bite, gulping and grunting. Now he is doing it every chance he gets, even on the fence posts when turned out! Has anybody got any idea what made him start so suddenly? Is there anything I can do to stop him? What worries me is Ive read he could be in pain with ulcers- is there any cure for them? Any help gratefully appreciated.....
 
Cribbing is definitely a sign of ulcers, he is shut in rather a lot, even with others nearby 4-5 hours turnout and an hour at exercise means he is stood in a stable for 18- 20 hours each day.
Ulcers can be treated but to remain clear once treated the management and diet need to be as natural as possible, they do not have to live out 24/7 but ideally they would at least in the summer. Ad lib hay is good but cannot replace freedom to move and search for grass, browse hedges and play with others.
 
I would like to be able to turn out more, but unfortunately don't have the facilities, the land in this area has to be managed carefully. But saying that, he has a much more 'natural' life than some horses who never start cribbing. I have worked with hunters, point to pointers and horses in a riding school, none of which EVER got turned out, and not one of them started cribbing. So I'm not convinced its all down to stable management....
 
We had a pony that had never cribbed but spent a few weeks on a livery yard. When we got her home she suddenly started to crib loads. We smothered everything in stockholm tar and she stopped as quickly as she had started. Very odd - and she has never done it since and that was over 3 years ago. I know they are not supposed to pick it up from other horses but I do wonder whether in this instance that is what she did. Not sure how this helps you but don't despair just yet about the ulcers thing.
 
stormox said:
I would like to be able to turn out more, but unfortunately don't have the facilities, the land in this area has to be managed carefully. But saying that, he has a much more 'natural' life than some horses who never start cribbing. I have worked with hunters, point to pointers and horses in a riding school, none of which EVER got turned out, and not one of them started cribbing. So I'm not convinced its all down to stable management....
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Doesn't matter about other horses. They are all different as are we. I would say that the management system does probably have a great deal to do with it. Why it has started happening now is likely due to the fact that he is no longer a baby. He is maturing into an adult horse and perhaps what was enough stimulation for him previously is not enough any more. I've seen it so so many times as horses get to being 5-6 (sure you've heard of the terrible 5's?) and they just need more. A stable is essentially just a big cage. When mine have to be in 24/7 because the fields are flooded, one is happy to be loose schooled in the morning and go in the walker in the evening and I tie them outside for as long as I can...but the other needs to go on the walker for 40 minutes, 3 times a day on top of being ridden and tied up outside for as long as possible. If she doesn't get that, she paces the stable, rolls repeatedly, completely churns up her bed and weaves. That horse has been out of work, turned out in a field all summer and couldn't care a jot...because she is out. If she were in, I would have been having to pay someone a stupid amount to keep her happy.

Hopefully a little tweaking will help.
 
It's a considerable change isn't it to from out as a baby 24/7 mooching and foraging to about 19 hours in a box where a lot of natural behaviours can't be done- for example picking over leaves and weeds and then a kick of the heels or an itch on a tree or fence. Do you know that the hay is genuinely ad lib? Have you tried an assortment of forage types dotted round the stable? When worked does he get to do a range of mentally challenging things?
 
I don't think Ive treated him, from being an unhadled youngster to a riding horse, any differently to the way most other horses are treated. I keep him at home, so I know how much food he gets, I feed him about 6-7 times a day, 1st time about 7am, last 10pm. I mix hay, haylage and grass. I am always popping in and out of his stable, and his riding consists of varying hacks, jumping lessons, dressage schooling, hire of an arena once a week, and at weekeds, hunting and any nearby competitions, from trec, to dressage and jumping. So I do try to keep him happy and interested.
 
stormox said:
I don't think Ive treated him, from being an unhadled youngster to a riding horse, any differently to the way most other horses are treated.
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I'm sure you don't. But he is obviously in trouble somewhere, either physically or mentally, and you just have to find out which it is. My first port of call would be a chat with your vet, as they've known him as long as you have.

I hope you get him sorted and do keep us posted :)
 
If he is at home there is plenty of opportunity to turn him out more just because others cope does not mean he will and he seems not to be if cribbing, can he not be out more in summer, however bad the land gets my view is that it is there for the horses to live on not to look pretty.
I feed mine adlib hay or haylage when in, they get fed 3 nets in 24 hours in winter, 1 am with breakfast then worked and turned out then 1 when they come in and the last at late night stables, they never run out and even if they stay in all day a net will last them, I would try giving him 2 full nets, one hay one haylage and let him have it there at all times never running low so it is properly ad lib.
 
I will say, and Vanha12 posted this, he did start the week after Id kept him at livery for 2 weeks where there were other cribbing horses. But I never saw him do it there. He also cribs while he's eating, so I don't think even more hays the answer. But as regards more turnout, will that really work if he cribs on the fence posts, nearly pulling them out of the ground? I am thinking of getting a collar, cribbox and creosote doesn't stop him, but maybe I could fix a drain pipe or something he couldn't catch hold of along the top of all the surfaces he can crib on. Im hoping that if I can totally stop him doing it for a while it will break the habit.
 
stormox said:
I will say, and Vanha12 posted this, he did start the week after Id kept him at livery for 2 weeks where there were other cribbing horses. But I never saw him do it there. He also cribs while he's eating, so I don't think even more hays the answer. But as regards more turnout, will that really work if he cribs on the fence posts, nearly pulling them out of the ground? I am thinking of getting a collar, cribbox and creosote doesn't stop him, but maybe I could fix a drain pipe or something he couldn't catch hold of along the top of all the surfaces he can crib on. Im hoping that if I can totally stop him doing it for a while it will break the habit.
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Electric fencing run along the top would probably be far more effective as a deterrent. It was used successfully with a horse on our yard last year. The horse knew what electric fencing was so didn't even go near it.
 
If he is cribbing that much I would get him scoped, if he has ulcers you can get on and treat them, one of mine started cribbing while on box rest my vet put him on Gastrogard the same day and he stopped before it had become a habit, he still looks at the top of the door at times as if he may start again so is about to be scoped to find out what is going on.
 
_GG_ said:
Doesn't matter about other horses. They are all different as are we. I would say that the management system does probably have a great deal to do with it. Why it has started happening now is likely due to the fact that he is no longer a baby. He is maturing into an adult horse and perhaps what was enough stimulation for him previously is not enough any more.
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I agree with this. I also agree that a stable is a big cage - spot on. If it were my horse I'd put it out 24/7 immediately and if your current place doesn't offer that then I'd move yards / grazing. 4 hours turnout in a 24 period IMO is enough to make any horse start displaying boredom vices... And of course it hugely increases the chance of it being ulcers.

I had an anglo arab who was sold to me as a cribber, she was definately a lot better when left out.
 
Well, touch wood he hasn't cribbed in 2 days, or even looked like he wanted to. I removed the hay-bar (the fixing post of which was his favourite cribbing place) and feed his hay in a net. I have run 6in diameter drainpipes along the top of the dividing gate and stable door. His turnout is now in a small paddock with electric fencing, not wooden fence posts. I didn't bother with the collar, hopefully my amendments will be enough, and maybe after a while he'd forget he even started.....
 
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