bouncing_ball
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear that. Any possibility he’s not a completely unbacked four year old but a four year someone else has failed to back successfully?
why is buying horses so stressfull
- Thread starter racebuddy
- Start date
Sossigpoker
Well-Known Member
It is stressful because in my experience most horsey people are incredibly dishonest and wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them !
I've travelled around the country to be shown a different height horse, doped horse, lame horse, bucking horse ("oh he's never done that before ")
It is the outright lying that makes it so stressful IME and IMO.
I've travelled around the country to be shown a different height horse, doped horse, lame horse, bucking horse ("oh he's never done that before ")
It is the outright lying that makes it so stressful IME and IMO.
catembi
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone has tried as he was v surprised by tack & lungeing. Who knows, though. My suspicions: finds it v v hard to balance on 3 legs when doing feet; one hind leg in particular he lifts up v v high like a dog cocking its leg; *won't* trot on the lunge without a lot of encouragement; when encouraged forward & doing a single canter stride instead of trotting on, bunny hops behind; went totally nuts on the lunge today with no provocation & nearly went over backwards; left tacked up in stable for a minute (no reins), I heard crashing, went to investigate & he looked as if he was going down in a cold backed sort of way. Girth wasn't over tight. Walked over a pole, v v unsure of where his feet are. Maybe KS, maybe shiver although quite dissimilar to my mare who was diagnosed with shiver, might be PSSM but again unlike any of my others, stringhalt ditto... He can back up okay, but then my shiver mare could... Wobblers...? Not had a wobbler before. My instructor is coming for a look tomo & then I think retire. **sighs** I don't think I can return a cheapy sold from the field.
When I went to see him, he picked up all 4 feet, I watched his gait from all directions trotted up on concrete (barefoot) & he was chased round an indoor arena & nothing looked abnormal. Overtracking in trot. I think I am destined to live out my days riding Trev the ex racer around my arena in walk for 20 mins a day which is all he can do...
When I went to see him, he picked up all 4 feet, I watched his gait from all directions trotted up on concrete (barefoot) & he was chased round an indoor arena & nothing looked abnormal. Overtracking in trot. I think I am destined to live out my days riding Trev the ex racer around my arena in walk for 20 mins a day which is all he can do...
Roxylola
Well-Known Member
Catembi, have you had your soil/forage tested. If he was OK before and isn't now I'd really be wondering if it could be something he's eating. Could be an easy fix if it is
TheMule
Well-Known Member
You've had him 1 week? You've progressed faster than I do when backing horses I've had all their lives!
Slow down, go back several steps and give him time, he sounds totally overwhelmed.
If he was fine in his movement when you saw him and now you're really worried I would get a vet assessment ASAP
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
This. This is sadly the latest horse that has shown odd symptoms when arriving at yours. It might be coincidental, but I'd be very suspicious that there is some common environmental factor involved.
How come he was sold from the field as unbacked from a place with an indoor school?
catembi
Well-Known Member
Yes, vet is coming on Wednesday. My trainer is coming out this morning. He isn’t overwhelmed. There is something going on. I have owned a stringhalt, a shiverer, several PSSMs and a KS and from how he moves on the lunge and struggles to lift his feet up or walk over a pole, I think it’s something that very definitely isn’t behavioural. We will see.
catembi
Well-Known Member
The shiverer was shivering in her sales video which was obvious once I knew what I was looking for. The KS had all his problems at my last property where he lived for 10 years. The stringhalt lived on my grandfather’s farm before I ever got my own property. My first PSSM was at my last property. PSSM is genetic and diagnosed by DNA testing, and I don’t think that even my management is so awful as to alter a horse’s DNA.
I come on here as mine live at home, o/h hates horses and I literally have no one else to communicate with. I think it would probably be a lot better for me if I stopped.
I come on here as mine live at home, o/h hates horses and I literally have no one else to communicate with. I think it would probably be a lot better for me if I stopped.
Regandal
Well-Known Member
Catembi, that is just awful bad luck. I feel for you, out of the 5 horses I have had, only 1 has been truly sound. Fingers crossed that it’s something fixable.
MidChristmasCrisis
Well-Known Member
Dear Catembi don’t leave..I’ve just read this thread and I genuinely don’t think the posts above were”getting at you” ..just casting around to find a solvable reason for your horses “breaking”. I feel your pain and disappointment over your purchases and this recent experience must be touching a raw nerve.
Dont rush towards a heartbreaking conclusion ..let your vet assess..I’m sending hopeful vibes that young newbie is mindblown by new home/routine/expectations and he comes good…stay with us x
Dont rush towards a heartbreaking conclusion ..let your vet assess..I’m sending hopeful vibes that young newbie is mindblown by new home/routine/expectations and he comes good…stay with us x
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite
Well-Known Member
Soohh feeling your pain OP!
I was last looking 4 years ago; and I'm not sure I've got over it yet!!
During about an 18 month's or so period I must have viewed around 50 horses. You just get sick of being lied to and people trying to pull the wool over your eyes and think you haven't noticed!
The most refreshing viewing I had was a seller who said outright - look, this is what the horse has done and this is why I'm selling it. Apparently the mare had "bolted" with a novice rider because she'd been out and met a tractor and trailer with a pig in it and at the same time a helicopter had flown over whilst at the same time the saddle had slipped.
Well I must have been crazy but I viewed and rode the mare - really I was looking for a companion at the time rather than ridden but I thought she was worth a look at any rate; there was something about her that I liked and somehow the story didn't ring true, especially after I'd ridden her. She just wasn't the sort to bolt! I signed the disclaimer I was asked to sign (fair enough) and brought her home! She needed remedial work on her sacro-iliac area as she was blatently in pain. I rode her on the country lanes and met tractors, had helicopters overhead (we live near a regional airport), but not had a saddle slippage! All of which she dealt with. We did a pleasure ride, and were beginning to have fun..........
Sadly we lost her a fortnight ago; she had developed trigeminal headshaking and also had a bad lammi episode - something she was prone to and which we knew might happen again. She became impossible to keep boxrested and became aggressive to not only the rest of the herd but to humans as well, poor mare was just sooh unhappy. There were other suspected issues too: she hadn't been fully sound for a while to the extent that she was still lame on 2X bute a day; also vet suspected hindgut ulcers, EMS, and early-onset arthritis. Her quality of life not just in the immediate future but also futuristically was considered and the decision was made to PTS. We put her out in a nice grassy field for the last day of her life, back with her herd, and on the day she was due to the PTS she came back to the gate with a spring in her stride and a light in her eyes that hadn't been there for such a very long time. Then we did "the deed". She still had a mouthful of carrots in her gob when she went and it was the best thing we could do for her. She was just 10, should've been in her prime.
So perhaps she wasn't such a good buy........... but bless her, she was a sweet mare and I miss her very much.
Sorry, realise I've digressed. Sorry OP.
I was last looking 4 years ago; and I'm not sure I've got over it yet!!
During about an 18 month's or so period I must have viewed around 50 horses. You just get sick of being lied to and people trying to pull the wool over your eyes and think you haven't noticed!
The most refreshing viewing I had was a seller who said outright - look, this is what the horse has done and this is why I'm selling it. Apparently the mare had "bolted" with a novice rider because she'd been out and met a tractor and trailer with a pig in it and at the same time a helicopter had flown over whilst at the same time the saddle had slipped.
Well I must have been crazy but I viewed and rode the mare - really I was looking for a companion at the time rather than ridden but I thought she was worth a look at any rate; there was something about her that I liked and somehow the story didn't ring true, especially after I'd ridden her. She just wasn't the sort to bolt! I signed the disclaimer I was asked to sign (fair enough) and brought her home! She needed remedial work on her sacro-iliac area as she was blatently in pain. I rode her on the country lanes and met tractors, had helicopters overhead (we live near a regional airport), but not had a saddle slippage! All of which she dealt with. We did a pleasure ride, and were beginning to have fun..........
Sadly we lost her a fortnight ago; she had developed trigeminal headshaking and also had a bad lammi episode - something she was prone to and which we knew might happen again. She became impossible to keep boxrested and became aggressive to not only the rest of the herd but to humans as well, poor mare was just sooh unhappy. There were other suspected issues too: she hadn't been fully sound for a while to the extent that she was still lame on 2X bute a day; also vet suspected hindgut ulcers, EMS, and early-onset arthritis. Her quality of life not just in the immediate future but also futuristically was considered and the decision was made to PTS. We put her out in a nice grassy field for the last day of her life, back with her herd, and on the day she was due to the PTS she came back to the gate with a spring in her stride and a light in her eyes that hadn't been there for such a very long time. Then we did "the deed". She still had a mouthful of carrots in her gob when she went and it was the best thing we could do for her. She was just 10, should've been in her prime.
So perhaps she wasn't such a good buy........... but bless her, she was a sweet mare and I miss her very much.
Sorry, realise I've digressed. Sorry OP.
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Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
I’m so sorry Catembi . A good friend of mine has 6 out of 7 horses ill or injured. All totally unrelated different reasons. She is a vet student and incredibly conscientious. Her horses live at home with impeccable care. Sometimes people just have a run of terrible terrible luck. I’m so sorry and really hope there is a simple solution and it’s not as bad as you fear.
PSD
Well-Known Member
I hope you get some answers catembi. Please don’t leave!
PSD
Well-Known Member
Sounds very much like my mares last day, I couldn’t even catch the little madam! despite her having 4 bute just to get her to the paddock (she was in so much pain at this point) she still managed to trot away from me! But I felt happy knowing she had such a wonderful last day with me.
Such a bittersweet moment.
But back to the original topic, horse shopping is so stressful. Ive viewed so many that aren’t as advertised and the sellers are dishonest just so they can try to get a sale. However the person ive got TJ off is an old friend who ive known for years and I know she wouldn’t keep anything from me. I’ve also known of TJ for years too! They’ve had him since he was weaned and I even remember him being shown as a 2 year old colt. So I struck gold really!
View
Well-Known Member
Oh no. Please don't rush into any decisions - let your trainer and a good vet have a look first, and then consider all options. Hopefully it's an easy fix.
Wheresthehoofpick
Well-Known Member
N
no no no!
FinalCanter
Member
I totally understand the pain of the looking process..
I'm currently looking now, and found a few reputable breeders for the horse cross I'm after (georgian grande), but that certainly is only half the battle. Months have gone by and the horse I thought was the one, wasn't. I've taken a small break and have started again recently--the hunt continues! This would be my first horse to own so I'm taking extra precautions. Most of the breeders of g.g's have young horses whom are being saddled. Most I see are around 5-7 years old currently.
I'm currently looking now, and found a few reputable breeders for the horse cross I'm after (georgian grande), but that certainly is only half the battle. Months have gone by and the horse I thought was the one, wasn't. I've taken a small break and have started again recently--the hunt continues! This would be my first horse to own so I'm taking extra precautions. Most of the breeders of g.g's have young horses whom are being saddled. Most I see are around 5-7 years old currently.
southerncomfort
Well-Known Member
I bought an unbacked 4 year old last Autumn and he will definitely be my last. I've been around horses all my life, kept them on and off since I was 14, but I'm priced out of the market now.
I've got 4 kids, I can't justify spending several thousand pounds of family money on a horse, it wouldn't be right or fair.
I don't know...maybe if enough of us stop buying the prices will have to come down a bit. ?
I've got 4 kids, I can't justify spending several thousand pounds of family money on a horse, it wouldn't be right or fair.
I don't know...maybe if enough of us stop buying the prices will have to come down a bit. ?
onemoretime
Well-Known Member
I agree completely with you sossigpoker people make buying a horse so hard because they are so dishonest. I have been caught by a dodgy dealer in Scotland. Horse full of bute and she even gave me 6 bags of chaff and nuts saying it was just for the change over of feed, it was all laced with bute. Poor horse had a serious injury to his back from a rotational fall which she knew very well hence drugging him up. When I told dealer he had bucked me of i got "oh he's never done that before" that is a favourite with dodgy dealers. She was an out and out liar and has caught numerous people yet is still trading!
PSD
Well-Known Member
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Especially as they were a former forum member.
IIRC they previously had a good reputation too. The whole thing was awful.
SusieT
Well-Known Member
Catembi - he sounds like he is panicing about the saddle/something on him - not all horses can cope with something on their back initially. Not all horses can lunge - it can be very alien to youngsters and in a new home not wanting to lift a foot so they are 'vulnerable' is very common. I'd drop it down a level before worrying too much, practice groundwork on a leadrope, carrot stretches etc to get him using his body - then maybe reassess, make it all very small steps and any wobbly behaviour take it back a step. Can't rule out he haasn't done someting e.g. neck injury etc , sore feeet so you're right to wonder but if he was normal pre sale hopefully not
Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
Please don't leave, Catembi. You always have such good advice. I think people (who admittedly aren't there and not looking at the horse) are just reaching for other reasons for your youngster's behaviour that are less catastrophic than wobbler's, KS. In a hopeful way. He could be weirded out by the move and reverting to some more primitive stage of his education until he settles. I hope so.
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coblets
Well-Known Member
Fingers crossed for you that he's just a bit immature/uncoordinated and not anything more. Maybe if you give him another week, rather than having him up back for sale already, he may improve for the better? xx
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
Sadly PSSM is so, so, so common, its just 95% of people dont even realise there is an issue sadly, luckily for your horses you do. Doesnt help with you having a sound horse to ride though. I've gone for a slightly older horse in work and living a similar lifestyle to how I keep mine, so I hopefully dodge the PSSM bullet and get a sound horse. So far, touch wood, hes tough and sound despite being an ex racer. He did try and colic on the day he arrived though, so even the sound ones like to scare the bejezus out of you!
SO1
Well-Known Member
I am glad I am not looking for another horse. If anything happens to my current one I will not be replacing him. It was hard enough to find him in the first place 14 years ago!
I expect with prices so high a lot of horses that might not have been considered saleable are being bought out spruced up and put on the market, a lot of older horses, light hacks and quirky horses advertised at the moment. I do wonder if they will sell, are people that desperate that they will take a risk and pay that sort of price.
I expect with prices so high a lot of horses that might not have been considered saleable are being bought out spruced up and put on the market, a lot of older horses, light hacks and quirky horses advertised at the moment. I do wonder if they will sell, are people that desperate that they will take a risk and pay that sort of price.
SO1
Well-Known Member
That is bad luck, I do know other people who have also had a lot of horses that have ended up retired or with problems so it is not just you.
After each horse you get you learn something new so you become more experienced in some ways, but I wonder also if you know of more things that can go wrong you presume the worst from prior experience . What you don't know about you can't worry about. Hopefully the new horse will be fine and the vet will be able to pinpoint the problem maybe he has tweaked something in transit that can be easily resolved. Hopefully it won't be because he was buted up for sale and was turned away due to having a problem. I presumed you did not have a vetting and take bloods as it was a bit of gamble and he was cheap and bought as seen from the field.
I think perhaps people are trying to give you some hope and not just questioning your judgement as think you are ignorant. Maybe you can video some of the scenarios and show it to your vet to see what they think.
After each horse you get you learn something new so you become more experienced in some ways, but I wonder also if you know of more things that can go wrong you presume the worst from prior experience . What you don't know about you can't worry about. Hopefully the new horse will be fine and the vet will be able to pinpoint the problem maybe he has tweaked something in transit that can be easily resolved. Hopefully it won't be because he was buted up for sale and was turned away due to having a problem. I presumed you did not have a vetting and take bloods as it was a bit of gamble and he was cheap and bought as seen from the field.
I think perhaps people are trying to give you some hope and not just questioning your judgement as think you are ignorant. Maybe you can video some of the scenarios and show it to your vet to see what they think.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Well I went to view that horse I was talking about last week. Such a shame he wasn't what I was looking for. He had no muscle at all, was very thin and muscles had atrophied and although they were even it was everywhere. When my 24 year old hadn't been ridden for 6 months prior to being pts she hadn't been even 1/4 that bad so it really made me wonder if the horse had something very wrong. I'd been told that he was pigeon toed by the owner and sent a photo someone had taken of his feet from the front the reality was a lot worse and he was very narrow up front. The girl who was selling on behalf of the owner even acknowledged that she'd taken a 'really good photo' when I said the photo I'd seen was nothing like in person!
And the horse was so shut down, I'd never met such a shut down horse. Not blaming anyone for that, I'm sure the owner was lovely but it was such a shame, he would have come round lovely with me I'm sure. But the physical aspects made me really worry and I didn't bother getting on him even though we'd been on the road over 2.5 hrs by that point! It will be interesting to see how long he is on the website for. I really hope he finds a nice home but I wasn't prepared to take the risk.
And the horse was so shut down, I'd never met such a shut down horse. Not blaming anyone for that, I'm sure the owner was lovely but it was such a shame, he would have come round lovely with me I'm sure. But the physical aspects made me really worry and I didn't bother getting on him even though we'd been on the road over 2.5 hrs by that point! It will be interesting to see how long he is on the website for. I really hope he finds a nice home but I wasn't prepared to take the risk.
onemoretime
Well-Known Member
Especially as they were a former forum member.
The whole thing was awful.
Yes it was dreadful especially for the poor horse, yet people still refuse to believe it yet I have the positive blood test results and the Confidentiality Agreement she had her solicitor draw up to try and hush the whole thing up, its not worth the paper its written on as not drawn up properly so I let people see it. Good job I am married to a lawyer who went after her and made her take horse back and give a full refund.
teddy_
Well-Known Member
I am in the same situation, I have what I feel is a fair budget however, after three weeks of scouring the internet, I have come to the conclusion one of the only ways I can afford a straight, strong horse is to buy unseen (vetted, mind) a 3YO RID from Ireland.
Having not bought a horse for seven years I am frankly staggered by the prices. I understand there is scope that some horses were underpriced before but, I do feel prices are excessive in more situations than not. For example, a basically untouched 4YO Section D whom the seller advised probably couldn't even have a 2 Stage vetting as he doesn't know how to pick up his feet - £7,000 (!).
I am looking as my seven year old warmblood has recently been diagnosed with navicular. I am astounded that a 'sound' version of him would set me back well into lower five figures - which is frankly not on the cards!
At least we can sympathise with each other
!