Why is DIY livery so scarce...?

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Chinchilla

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I am currently - though have been for most of the year - looking for DIY livery/grazing in the South East (specifically Oxfordshire), but there's nothing, literally nothing: unless you're willing to pay £750 a month for a 2 acre patch of grass that's literally just a patch of grass, and with barbed wire fencing to boot. (Which personally even if 2 acres is enough, which it's not, I don't really think is a reasonable amount of money to be asking!).

So I have been wondering, why is DIY or grazing-to-rent so scarce in certain areas? Full livery is really common (more so than part!), despite being fairly expensive, but most yards refuse to offer DIY. Why is this? Grazing to rent is more common, but not by much, and even then most of it is quite far away (20 miles + ) away. Is it because it's quite a wealthy area so people are more likely to be able to afford full? Or something else...?

Apologies for my naivety but thanks in advance for any answers!
 
I am not in the same area as you, but have seen several friends on FB local-ish to me that no longer have DIY-ers purely because of the additional stress they add. While I am sure there are some good DIY-ers out there, there are also the ones who don't rock up to turn out, get in, feed, muck out and generally expect someone else to pick up after them. I expect, in the long run, offering and being paid for full livery works out much better for many yard owners.
 
Because when you add up all the costs that most people don't even consider it will barely break even. There is lots of pressure on land from building especially in the south east so grazing is becoming less and less and land is expensive to buy. I really think most people don't understand the cost involved with running a livery yard and therefore expect DIY to be cheap. As has been said above alot of the overheads are the same be it full or DIY and full is more profitable. That and some of the issues arise with interactions between owners and different levels of horse care with DIY can end up being time consuming and stressful. I think there will continue to be a move to full and part as there is even more pressure and building on land
 
Full liveries are just so much easier. I know that I am sorting the horses, so horses are out, yard jobs done and everything is swept and tidied before I go back to the house for a shower and do the school run. I sort all the bedding/forage/feed and bill them later, so never run out of things.

DIYs can be great, but some are a bit hit and miss about what time they do things and some leave the yard looking a bit of a state. I hate finding horses in the stable without forage/water and wondering if owner will be coming to do them in 5 minutes or 3 hours... Also, get random calls at 8pm asking for horses to be brought in, which really grates.
 
Ah. I promise not all DIYers are lazy cheap skates :lol:
Is there any way to boost chances of finding somewhere then - I have ads up on preloved, here, and facebook, and am willing to provide references from current landowners and vets etc. as to reliability and horses' behaviour. Is there anything else to do - besides not be fussy on facilities, which we really aren't anyway? (Basically just need running water. Not even after automatic troughs as happy to fill up buckets myself if need be so long as there's a way of doing so!)
 
Chinchilla said:
I am currently - though have been for most of the year - looking for DIY livery/grazing in the South East (specifically Oxfordshire), but there's nothing, literally nothing: unless you're willing to pay £750 a month for a 2 acre patch of grass that's literally just a patch of grass, and with barbed wire fencing to boot. (Which personally even if 2 acres is enough, which it's not, I don't really think is a reasonable amount of money to be asking!).

So I have been wondering, why is DIY or grazing-to-rent so scarce in certain areas? Full livery is really common (more so than part!), despite being fairly expensive, but most yards refuse to offer DIY. Why is this? Grazing to rent is more common, but not by much, and even then most of it is quite far away (20 miles + ) away. Is it because it's quite a wealthy area so people are more likely to be able to afford full? Or something else...?

Apologies for my naivety but thanks in advance for any answers!
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As mentioned no profit same with grass, horse owner gets horse fed 24 hrs a day on their grass for next to nothing in ££. It seems to be the bigger diy that is harder to find, as we have a pony diy and no takers, as others say some diy are messy and don't respect the facilities making it pleasantness for others, that said I have 3 other diy ( larger ones ) and they are tidy and respectful. It is all down to the individual I think.
 
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Chinchilla said:
Ah. I promise not all DIYers are lazy cheap skates :lol:
Is there any way to boost chances of finding somewhere then - I have ads up on preloved, here, and facebook, and am willing to provide references from current landowners and vets etc. as to reliability and horses' behaviour. Is there anything else to do - besides not be fussy on facilities, which we really aren't anyway? (Basically just need running water. Not even after automatic troughs as happy to fill up buckets myself if need be so long as there's a way of doing so!)
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When I moved, the yard I found wasn't advertised anywhere despite being a fairly large diy yard, I mean no sign of the place on the internet or local ads. You need to go through word of mouth, I drove around and pulled into horsey places, even stopped ladies out riding to see if they knew and I found loads of little tucked away yards I would never have known about. Also on facebook most towns have facebook groups, if you post in those a lot of people have private yards at home that offer livery but wont advertise.
Also local farriers are the best for yard info!
 
The good yards never advertise. You find them by asking people and/or driving round knocking on doors. I always find a post on the local horsey Facebook groups very useful as well.
 
yes I would say if a decent DIY yard they will have a waiting list and ever have to advertise! mine is on a private estate and is immaculate with amazing facilities but I found through word of mouth and never even knew there was a yard on the private estate! I had to wait a long time for a stable and am hanging on to it! We have to keep the yard immaculate and you would never know it was a DIY yard. Perhaps try driving around the area and asking around x
 
Farma said:
When I moved, the yard I found wasn't advertised anywhere despite being a fairly large diy yard, I mean no sign of the place on the internet or local ads. You need to go through word of mouth, I drove around and pulled into horsey places, even stopped ladies out riding to see if they knew and I found loads of little tucked away yards I would never have known about. Also on facebook most towns have facebook groups, if you post in those a lot of people have private yards at home that offer livery but wont advertise.
Also local farriers are the best for yard info!
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This - I could only find full livery yards advertised online, so I wondered around the local area, knocking on doors! Also have you been checking ads in local tack shops?
 
Not overly helpful, but looking at this: " £750 a month for a 2 acre patch of grass that's literally just a patch of grass, and with barbed wire fencing to boot" I couldn't help feeling smug at paying £70 a month (no I didn't leave off a zero) for 1 acre in summer, 10 acres in winter, stable, feedroom and haylage!

Sorry :)
 
when my existing yard was sold for building i had to find somewhere quickly as although YO had told us it was sold, she only told us the date one month before we had to be out!!!!!! i was not happy and just drove round the local area and called in at yards....when i called in at my current yard the YO said she didnt take DIY as the last one she had was so difficult. i grovelled a bit and said we were desperate and she said she would help out on a temporary basis , 3 years on we are still there....YO is happy as we are both looking after our horses properly, we keep everything tidy and we help out if she has any problems. there are good places out there but you will need to do the leg work.good luck
 
I only have 2 DIYs and one part and the rest full. Echo all as mentioned before. I had one who was awful, messy, a health and safety disaster waiting happen and created an 'atmosphere'. When they left I filled the stables with 2 Fulls and it makes a significant difference financially, but not time wise as I ended up doing their horses and clearing up after them. My DIY's contacted me as soon as I bought the property. I have a waiting list and require references. After you have a bad one it leaves a bitter taste unfortunately (the bad DIY has been on 4 yards now in under a year as they were kicked off the next yard in a few weeks).
 
I'm in East Devon and when we bought the place and moved here 25 years ago now, you couldn't give livery away, no-one wanted it.

Now, roll-on down the years, and I am reasonably confident that if my lovely livery every leaves (I hope she never does!) I'd hopefully get someone else without too much trouble. We've got a new town sprung up like a rash which has meant that some land has thus become unavailable for horses on it, plus regrettably some long-standing riding schools and yards have had to close down due to rising running costs, which means that DIY is getting harder to find possibly.
 
Whereabouts in Oxfordshire are you looking? I'm on the Bucks / Ox border and I've found that land allocated to housing has severely limited the grazing options. Sometimes it isn't even obvious the land has an option to build on it, but if it has the owners often don't want horses on it in case that somehow causes problems with planning applications. One of my friends is renting 15 acres that has an option to build on it, with full knowledge (its in the contract) that she cannot put any structures on it and has just a 4 week notice period.

I'm not sure how long my current livery yard will be standing. The only thing working in our favour at the moment is the fields next door have planning for 40 houses and I think the developer will want to sell those before building more.

I also think yards make a greater margin on full livery than DIY and if you have limited stables / grazing then full makes more sense.
 
SEL said:
Whereabouts in Oxfordshire are you looking? I'm on the Bucks / Ox border and I've found that land allocated to housing has severely limited the grazing options. Sometimes it isn't even obvious the land has an option to build on it, but if it has the owners often don't want horses on it in case that somehow causes problems with planning applications. One of my friends is renting 15 acres that has an option to build on it, with full knowledge (its in the contract) that she cannot put any structures on it and has just a 4 week notice period.

I'm not sure how long my current livery yard will be standing. The only thing working in our favour at the moment is the fields next door have planning for 40 houses and I think the developer will want to sell those before building more.

I also think yards make a greater margin on full livery than DIY and if you have limited stables / grazing then full makes more sense.
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PM'd you - don't want to shout my location all over a public forum, for obvious reasons xD
 
Chinchilla said:
Ah. I promise not all DIYers are lazy cheap skates :lol:
Is there any way to boost chances of finding somewhere then - I have ads up on preloved, here, and facebook, and am willing to provide references from current landowners and vets etc. as to reliability and horses' behaviour. Is there anything else to do - besides not be fussy on facilities, which we really aren't anyway? (Basically just need running water. Not even after automatic troughs as happy to fill up buckets myself if need be so long as there's a way of doing so!)
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What a strange thing to say - am happy to fill up buckets myself' - surely you dont get DIY liverys insisting on automatic drinkers??
Its just that a yard of horses you do yourself is so much neater and easier than having people turning up at different times of the day however clean tidy and responsible they are. You also seem to get a lot less livery bickering as people just turn up to ride. None of this 'who took my broom/wheelbarrow/feed' etc.
 
stormox said:
What a strange thing to say - am happy to fill up buckets myself' - surely you dont get DIY liverys insisting on automatic drinkers??
Its just that a yard of horses you do yourself is so much neater and easier than having people turning up at different times of the day however clean tidy and responsible they are. You also seem to get a lot less livery bickering as people just turn up to ride. None of this 'who took my broom/wheelbarrow/feed' etc.
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I did say in OP it's DIY or grazing (ie a field) ... this is the current arrangement which I'd class as grazing not livery (as the land is being rented and within reason we can do whatever with it).
 
I’m having a nightmare trying to find a yard too :( I’m so flexible, my only essential is everyday turnout through winter which is near on impossible to find around here! I’m in the North West and we have mainly DIY, current yard is lovely but has cut turnout which unfortunately doesn’t suit horsey. I know there will be compromises with most places but options are limited where I am :(
 
OP move to Cheshire! I have a fabulous yard and sometimes struggle to fill stables as there is a huge number of yards in my area. It’s true what others have said about there being no money in it though, it’s more a lifestyle choice!
 
As others said, they are out there but often don't need to advertise.

Don't know what area of Oxfordshire you are but I DIY-d at a yard in North Oxon for 14 years until 2014. All year turnout in big fields, cross-country course, good boxes, good school with jumps and poles; a canteen and loo, automatic troughs ... great hay and hayledge made by the owners for you to buy etc

It was £27.50 a week.

Oh, and a bridle path through the farm itself.

But no - there is no money in it for the owners and often plenty of grief so I can understand less and less folk wanting to offer it!
 
The only thing to do is to go round knocking on doors. And include going to farms/even private houses that have land. Don't take it personally if they say no, but you won't get if you don't ask. Put in writing the sort of arrangement you would like, at least this shows that you are serious.

The only trouble with agricultural land and horses is that farmers are willing to let land on a grazing licence, roughly April to October, but if the animals are there for 12 months then there is the danger of creating a tenancy - it has happened, where when the landowner wanted to sell, they had to PAY the person who had had the grazing from them to get them out. Hence the reluctance.
 
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