why is farrier doing this?

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chaps89

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Apologies in advance for typos, on my phone.
Brief background (or as brief as I can make it), horse has arthritis in both forefeet, dependant on vet and farrier went between regular shoes and egg/heart bars & pads previously, only ever shod in front, retired last september and took shoes off (was in egg/heart bars and pads when she's came off).
He doesn't leave the yard but is as sound as he ever gets on hard ground and concrete hardstanding. Had a foot absess in feb for the first time ever, we suspect because of the wet ground & he was living out. Had regular shoes and pads on for one shoeing cycle (5 weeks) then had them off again. We re-used one of the pads from when he had shoes off initially (typical farrier, never cleans his van out, lol) and his feet have really expanded since having shoes off as we could compare shape now with september .
Try to keep his diet as bf friendly as possibly but am not a die-hard bf follower (sorry, don't lynch me!)
However I've noticed farrier only uses the clipper tool (sorry don't know its proper name, like a giant nail clipper!) And clips excess hoof/horn from the underside of the foot, frogs and sole are pretty much left as they are. Fronts of the feet aren't rasped at all. All has been ok so far but this time round horses front feet look really splayed out, his heels look like they're dropping and feet look long, tho back feet look grand (always have done tho!). Farrier is out on thursday, he is a great farrier (recommended by several vets, remedially qualified, patient with horses, on time and happy to give advice and up until now never felt there's been anything wrong) so will ask him then, but any ideas why he might be trimming as he is?
 
Are the hooves left long after a trim?

It sounds like you've got some flare and accompanying under run heels. Flare cannot occur without the laminae stretching - this will not happen purely through trimming, as healthy laminae are too strong. In order for the stretch to occur, the laminae must be compromised in some way - i.e. diet. Either too much sugar/starch, or imbalanced or insufficient minerals. As this stretch has occurred at this time of the year, I'd strongly suspect grass iiwy.

That said, the farrier's method sounds a little lazy - it's ok to use the nippers if he's good with them, but I'd usually expect a smoother finish to be applied with the rasp. It's also possible to reduce the mechanical forces acting on the unhealthy laminae through a more interventionist trimming approach, though it's important to realise that trimming is merely treating a symptom (flare), and not the underlying cause (diet).
 
It is possible to trim using only nippers. It's how the hoof is trimmed that's important. :) Outer wall doesn't always need a rasp and a mustang roll can be put on with nippers.
 
amandap said:
It is possible to trim using only nippers. It's how the hoof is trimmed that's important. :) Outer wall doesn't always need a rasp and a mustang roll can be put on with nippers.
Click to expand...

It can, but even pete ramey usually finishes the sharp edges off a bit ;).
 
I have always found that the best way to find out why a farrier is doing something is to ASK THEM ;) I don't understand why you would go on a forum to ask some strangers who don't know your horse and haven't seen its feet why your farrier is doing what he's doing. These sorts of threads really puzzle me.
 
Diet, he has handful of hi-fi lite, half scoop of pony nuts (cutting this down), glug of veg oil, 1 sachet danilon daily, he has 2 weeks on steroids, 2 weeks off (only 6 prenizerlone (sp) tablets per day) 1 scoop bute-x (joint supplement which he's been on for about 5 years) and I've just this weekend put him back on an all round vit&mineral supplement. He gets 1 feed per day, is turned out 24/7 on grass livery, there is grass but its not lush and mixed with weeds (good for good-doers and not just a weed patch) I've tried muzzling in the past but he pulls every muzzle off in record time, and I can't put him in at current yard unfortunately as yo has her laminitic in the only stable. That said he does seem to self regulate his grazing, my mums old mare used to look at grass and balloon and gorge when she was turned out, he is usually underweight rather than overweight and even when turned out its not uncommon to see him just standing resting, he doesn't scoff. He is a good weight, no fat but does have a grass belly.
He is trimmed every 5-6 weeks (always has been, just grows a lot of hoof and as retired isn't self trimming and when was in work always had front shoes on)
Farrier does rasp off but again always only the underside of the foot, never puts the foot on the tripod and rasps the front like they would if horse was shod. Being new to having unshod/bf horse don't know if that's normal or not.
 
Thanks amandap. Joosie, farrier is coming thursday but I didn't want to ask him an obvious question if someone else knew the answer (don't mind a forumful of strangers thinking I'm a pleb tho) that said tho I do intend to talk to him cause he's there and he's the one doing the job that knows the horse so best person to ask, totally tust him and always been happy, was just curious as to outside opinions as he's always trimmed like this since shoes coming off but its this time round that his feet seem to have changed shape more notiecabley.
Should also say, re starch, I'm always careful to have low starch diet in terms of the foods I feed him as despite being scoped for ulcers (none found) and treated for ulcers (no change so stopped) as don't believe he has them, he cribs a whole lot more on foods which have higher starch levels. He barely cribs in summer when he just gets grass and enough feed for his medicines.
 
Oh, if he rasps off then I wouldn't really worry. I should think the grass is the culprit, but it doesn't sound like there's a great deal you can do about that.

There are a couple of things you can try feed-wise to help him cope with the sugar. You could put him on a decent balancer, such as Pro Balance. You could also try yea sacc, to help his gut, and charcoal to absorb toxins.

Just keep an eye on him for any signs of laminitis.
 
Thanks twostroke, much appreciated. I check feet for warmth & for pulses daily (paranoid) as he is native & on steroids so high risk but normally have to battle to keep weight on not off due to various digestive problems he has, tho will admit at the moment I am keeping my eye to check he doesn't go over-weight as he look just right at the moment.
Think you are right about the grass, might ask YO if I can stable him in the day while hers is out (wearing the muzzle he keeps on, not that I'm jealous, lol) but not sure how viable it will be, worth asking tho. Will look into your feed suggestions too :)
 
Can't help regarding your farrier but if he is putting on too much weight /sugars effecting his feet have you tried just a half mug of fast fibre to put his bute in, leaving out the nuts and oils. Also the bute x from what I can see on the website doesn't aid the joints but is a natural pain reliever.

Just made me think if you buying something that your already giving him with the bute, have you tried any joint supplements as I find aviform does some really good ones.

Hope you find some answers regarding the farrier.
 
I always ask my farriers why they are doing certain things and why do their feet need to looking like that, and why do they use that type of shoe on that horse and not the other etc etc. Mine are always happy to explain exactly why they are doing certain things, plus it interests me it all out. If in doubt just ask :)
 
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