why is he black when there is only one black horse in his blood lines?

StormyMoments

StormyMoments

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 March 2011
Messages
2,214
Visit site
So i was looking though Rio's passport having a nose and looking at his PRE certificate and looking at his breeding and this is what i found...

his Sire is - Estudioso XVII (PRE Castano) and his breeding is -Estudioso XI (PRE Negro) -Centinela VIII (PRE Castano) - Centello III (PRE Castano)- Estudiosa IV (PRE Tordo) - Centella V (PRE Castano) - Marciana (PRE Castano)

his Dam is - Leyenda XIII (PRE Castano) and her breeding is -Estimando (PRE Tordo) - Dalia X (PRE Tordo) - Pinturero VIII (PRE Tordo) - Estimada VI (PRE Castino) - Pendulo (PRE Tordo) - Espanola XVII (PRE Castano)


Castino = Brown
Tordo = grey/ dappled grey
Negro = black

so as you can see he has one black relative (grandsire on sire's side) 8 brown relatives on both sides and 5 grey relatives on both sides... so why is he black? i take it that both of his parents must have been carrying the black gene? so does that mean most of the horses in his lines were carrying the black gene

i know i probably sound completely loopy but i think this is really interesting :) still baffled that he has come out black dispite everything seemingly looking against him being black :)

sorry completely pointless just thought i'd share my thoughts :o
 
Random genetics :) We always smile as the stallion on our yard is bay, no white markings and his two mares are bay and we have had a stream of chestnut foalies :D He does have chestnut in his lines but it is still pretty funny
 
Because there are only two base colours black and chestnut. Everything else is other genes covering up (eg white markings, coloured horses, roaning, greying out) or diluting/altering the base colour (eg bay, palomino, dun etc...).

ETA. He just didn't inherit any of the modifying genes from his parents.
 
so how come there are like 80% grey andalusians and then the rest is black, chestnut, perlino, palomino and dun?

surely there should be more chestnut and black? or is it a problem within the breed? like interbreeding?
 
No problem with the breed. :)

OK...

E = black and e = chestnut, but genes come in pairs.

So...

EE = black
Ee = black (black is dominant over chestnut)
ee = chestnut

Then add grey to the mix.

Sire is Ee + G (one copy of grey) grey, but born black.
Dam is Ee + G (one copy of grey) grey, but born black.

When you work out the possible combinations of genes that the foals from this combination could inherit you get this...

EE Black
Ee Black
Ee Black
ee chestnut
EE G Grey (born black)
Ee G Grey (born black)
Ee G Grey (born black)
ee G Grey (born Chestnut)
EE GG Grey (born black)
Ee GG Grey (born black)
Ee GG Grey (born black)
ee GG Grey (born Chestnut)

ETA.
But dont greys start out as either black or chestnut?
Click to expand...

They are always born a 'colour' and then grey out, but you can have several modifying genes. So you could have a chestnut + cream + tobiano + grey, which would give you a palomino tobiano that greys out and will be pure white eventually, although you would still see the patches on the skin (the palomino areas have black skin and the skin under the white tobiano markings have pink skin).
 
Last edited:
Any excuse and I'll post a photo. ;)

Here's two photos of my grey. :)

Flossyfour.jpg


100_2208-1.jpg
 
Faracat said:
ETA.

They are always born a 'colour' and then grey out, but you can have several modifying genes. So you could have a chestnut + cream + tobiano + grey, which would give you a palomino tobiano that greys out and will be pure white eventually, although you would still see the patches on the skin (the palomino areas have black skin and the skin under the white tobiano markings have pink skin).
Click to expand...

That sailed nicely over my head :) im useless with all this colour stuff :)
 
Sorry.

ETA. Think of it like humans going grey. Babies aren't born with grey hair. Only horses have a gene that causes them to grey out, rather than just getting greys as they age.
 
Castaño in horse terms is Spanish for Bay (although it literally translates as chestnut) so both his parents were bay.

Bays are black horses which carry the Agouti gene which fades the coat on the body. He didn't inherit this from either parent so his coat stayed black.
 
StormyMoments said:
so how come there are like 80% grey andalusians and then the rest is black, chestnut, perlino, palomino and dun?

surely there should be more chestnut and black? or is it a problem within the breed? like interbreeding?
Click to expand...

Grey is predominant in the PRE because it was the favoured colour at one time, although black and bay were also allowed, chestnut was a big no no, along with any dilutions carrying the red gene, cremello for instance. In 2002 ANNCE changed the rules and they now allow any colour, grey hides a multitude of colours and now the colour variances in the PRE are starting to emerge, you now get dun, buckskin, perlino, cremello, palomino and pearl (which does not actually show until 2 pearl genes are inherited from both parents). Pearl is a dilution gene and a double pearl on red gives a sort of light gold coat over lilac skin, really very beautiful. Many PRE's carry a single pearl gene and until recently no one knew this as there was no affect on the coat colour.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top