Why is it so hard to find a livery yard.....

Can I just say......I'm really fed up of everyone ranting and moaning about the yards they keep their horses on. If the standards are low and you're not happy there, your horses aren't safe and there's problems left right and centre why not move?? I just can't understand why someone would stay somewhere that they didn't like? When paying livery you're paying for a service, if that service isn't up to standard why keep paying for it week after week? You wouldn't eat at a restuarant every day if the food was horrid.

I work extremely hard to keep the standard of my yard as high and possible and my liveries happy, if they weren't happy I wouldn't expect their horses to Still be here!
 
FaldingwoodLivery said:
Can I just say......I'm really fed up of everyone ranting and moaning about the yards they keep their horses on. If the standards are low and you're not happy there, your horses aren't safe and there's problems left right and centre why not move?? I just can't understand why someone would stay somewhere that they didn't like? When paying livery you're paying for a service, if that service isn't up to standard why keep paying for it week after week? You wouldn't eat at a restuarant every day if the food was horrid.

I work extremely hard to keep the standard of my yard as high and possible and my liveries happy, if they weren't happy I wouldn't expect their horses to Still be here!
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but that is it, people stay on the cheapest yard they can find and put up with having a poor yard (don't always go hand in hand I know, but IMO they do most times), they will moan and moan and try to find another cheap yard with lack rules etc to move too. it's these yards that force our hands.
 
FaldingwoodLivery said:
Can I just say......I'm really fed up of everyone ranting and moaning about the yards they keep their horses on. If the standards are low and you're not happy there, your horses aren't safe and there's problems left right and centre why not move?? I just can't understand why someone would stay somewhere that they didn't like?
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Well this thread's ancient but I may as well answer anyway - because in some places they're all as useless as each other, lol. I'm in a nice area now where i can take my pick between good yards, but when I lived an hour away it really was find the least rubbish out of a handful of rubbish yards, and people just can't afford the time or money to travel miles to their horses. Basically the reason people don't move is that there isn't anywhere better in the area to move to.
 
FaldingwoodLivery said:
Can I just say......I'm really fed up of everyone ranting and moaning about the yards they keep their horses on. If the standards are low and you're not happy there, your horses aren't safe and there's problems left right and centre why not move?? I just can't understand why someone would stay somewhere that they didn't like? When paying livery you're paying for a service, if that service isn't up to standard why keep paying for it week after week? You wouldn't eat at a restuarant every day if the food was horrid.

I work extremely hard to keep the standard of my yard as high and possible and my liveries happy, if they weren't happy I wouldn't expect their horses to Still be here!
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I see it from both sides.

If you are paying for a service them you expect that service, you can't be aware that someone isn't covering costs etc as you would think rates have been set to include everything.

On the otherhand, if you are on a yard that is cheap because of a lower standard then you have to put up. I was on a yard like this once and when my roof leaked I went out and bought roofing felt and repaired it, the same went for the fencing I bought my own electric fencing so I knew my horses would be safe. The low cost of the livery allowed for me to be able to do this. Other liveries thought I was mad but my horse was dry in his stable and I didn't get vet bills from barb wire injuries.
 
YorksG said:
One of the reasons for not being able to find cheap, give you all you want yards was amply demonstrated on here last week. People suing for falling over, people complaining about facilities, people complaining about cost. So many people seem to think that YO along with vets etc should give their services for free, or at least cost, because the horse owner believes they are somehow owed that.
If you want to do it your way, buy your own place, make the sacrifices that calls for and if you need someone to help out, find them and pay them. Simples :)
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Or don't expect to be able to keep your horse for £20 a week... I pay a premium for my livery compared to a lot of the people I read about on here, but I get unlimited hay/haylage and straw, the yard and facilities are immaculately maintained and the YO reliable. I wouldn't sue her for slipping on ice...because it is highly unlikely I would slip as the yard is kept clear and gritted and the guttering is repaired. I pay a premium (and I am certainly not rich by any stretch of the imagination) and the service the horse and I receive reflects that.

You don't need your own place, you just need to understand that nothing is free, you generally get what you pay for and that you shouldn't expect something for nothing - YOs are in business and trying to earn a living. They are not looking after your horse because they love him, they are not there to do you a favour - they are a business.
 
T-Bag said:
but that is it, people stay on the cheapest yard they can find and put up with having a poor yard (don't always go hand in hand I know, but IMO they do most times), they will moan and moan and try to find another cheap yard with lack rules etc to move too. it's these yards that force our hands.
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Precisely t-bag, if no one gave they're custom to these shoddy second rate yards then they would either have to buck their ideas up or close down.
 
martlin said:
But the reality is, as I said before, if we put the prices up enough to make a bit of profit, we're going to price ourselves out of the market...
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This is why I have a full time job, I earn more doing this and then pay full time staff to look after the yard, if I didn't have this to supp the yard, I would go down within a month
 
The fact of the matter is that people working on yards deserve to earn a sensible salary. Time costs money and so do the facilities. I am amazed at how little yards charge for stables/grazing, facilities and their labour costs. Most of them I suspect operate as a charity and get very little if any return for their hard worrk.
 
OWLIE185 said:
The fact of the matter is that people working on yards deserve to earn a sensible salary. Time costs money and so do the facilities. I am amazed at how little yards charge for stables/grazing, facilities and their labour costs. Most of them I suspect operate as a charity and get very little if any return for their hard worrk.
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I was thinking of offering a field poo picking service on the yard, I wanted to charge £10 pp phr and was told that was way too much and people would only pay £5phr

but it takes 2 people an hour to do a weeks worth of poo at least!! At £5phr that is roughley a loss about £9phr for me!
 
T-Bag said:
I was thinking of offering a field poo picking service on the yard, I wanted to charge £10 pp phr and was told that was way too much and people would only pay £5phr

but it takes 2 people an hour to do a weeks worth of poo at least!! At £5phr that is roughley a loss about £9phr for me!
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Turn it around... if they will only pay YOU £5 an hour to do it.. take them up on their offer.. thats right - ask them to do it for £5! I think that is actually under the minimum wage though...

I take a very pragmatic approach to my yard. There are some absolutes I cannot compromise on and are priorities and then there are things further down the list which are nice to have. Our yard seems to have ended up with a lot of individual or pairs only turn out though not set out deliberately. When you actually write down what you HAVE to have (so in my case, some of mine were - near home, must be able to take my dogs up, albeit they are with me or in the car) etc etc, then you reduce your choice. I don't move very often - do not see the point but I have gone when my time was up (or priced out of the market in one case!)
 
T-Bag said:
I was thinking of offering a field poo picking service on the yard, I wanted to charge £10 pp phr and was told that was way too much and people would only pay £5phr
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So long as they have the alternative to do it themselves and not pay, charging a tenner for the service if they want it sounds pretty fair to me. I bet if you put it in place, the ones who protested but can actually easily afford it would end up taking you up on the service and paying up.
 
martlin said:
But the reality is, as I said before, if we put the prices up enough to make a bit of profit, we're going to price ourselves out of the market...
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I am no economist, but if this is a common scenario of YO only breaking even then surely the pricing generally is too low? Have you talked to a business advisor or similar about this? Like I said, I pay a premium for livery compared to similar locally but strangely our yard rarely has vacancies despite being more expensive and they are usually filled very quickly.
 
martlin said:
But the reality is, as I said before, if we put the prices up enough to make a bit of profit, we're going to price ourselves out of the market...
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I do often ask myself why I do it! I have just finished our accounts for last years' tax return and made around £3.5 k profit. That is for providing a full/part livery service for four - five clients. I work 365 days a year, 7 days a week, never have any holidays and am always up at the crack of dawn so no lie ins ever. :( So, why do I do it? Well it's cheaper than going to the gym and just about pays for the keep of my own two horses. :D
 
FaldingwoodLivery said:
Can I just say......I'm really fed up of everyone ranting and moaning about the yards they keep their horses on. If the standards are low and you're not happy there, your horses aren't safe and there's problems left right and centre why not move?? I just can't understand why someone would stay somewhere that they didn't like? When paying livery you're paying for a service, if that service isn't up to standard why keep paying for it week after week? You wouldn't eat at a restuarant every day if the food was horrid.

I work extremely hard to keep the standard of my yard as high and possible and my liveries happy, if they weren't happy I wouldn't expect their horses to Still be here!
Click to expand...

Imho I do agree with you I used to be on a yard that was awful wire lying around, metal boxes, tractor parts, gates to fields tied with string but it was cheap. Now ive thought better off it and gone sod it my horse deserves the best he can get and now im moving to a fantastic yard with more facilities than the old one and is only £8 more expensive so Im really happy and they let your horses out 24x7 in summer which my old place stopped doing and offer winter turnout cant wait to move. :D
 
T-Bag said:
I was thinking of offering a field poo picking service on the yard, I wanted to charge £10 pp phr and was told that was way too much and people would only pay £5phr

but it takes 2 people an hour to do a weeks worth of poo at least!! At £5phr that is roughley a loss about £9phr for me!
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Personally I wouldn't pay £10 an hour for poo picking as that is about 2/3 of my hourly rate for University lecturing! Actually, poo picking at £10 an hour would be easier than my current job and I wouldn't need gym membership any more.... :D ;)

In all seriousness though, I suppose the pricing depends on what you are trying to achieve - are you trying to earn money from it (in which case it is probably overpriced) or make them do it themselves (so the price is a deterrent)?
 
fadedv said:
Personally I wouldn't pay £10 an hour for poo picking as that is about 2/3 of my hourly rate for University lecturing! Actually, poo picking at £10 an hour would be easier than my current job and I wouldn't need gym membership any more.... :D ;)

In all seriousness though, I suppose the pricing depends on what you are trying to achieve - are you trying to earn money from it (in which case it is probably overpriced) or make them do it themselves (so the price is a deterrent)?
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No they have to do it themselves, I was just thinking about offering it as a service and yes I want to make money. I've got to the point where I'm now fed up of not making any money, I don't and can't give up anyway, so forward thinking is needed
 
fadedv said:
I am no economist, but if this is a common scenario of YO only breaking even then surely the pricing generally is too low? Have you talked to a business advisor or similar about this? Like I said, I pay a premium for livery compared to similar locally but strangely our yard rarely has vacancies despite being more expensive and they are usually filled very quickly.
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I AM an economist:D Yes, the pricing in general is too low. I know what I need to charge and what I need to do to make a living, no need for advice there... it's just not possible, I'm afraid.
We are livestock farming and run a real business apart from that as well, livery is a bit of a hobby and a bit of an investment into the future - one day people will start paying for the services properly and I will be there to reap the rewards... or so I keep telling myself;)
Then there is my OH's logic - no way we would have put a 60x45 m arena in just for my private use:D
 
I wouldn't pay £10 an hour for poo picking either. Always do it myself (on DIY).
Former YO offered services at daily full livery ;£4 a day, poo picking £1 per horse/per day. Schooling £5 an hr. Or rug change, breakfast and TO for £1. Basic DIY livery was £15 and grass livery was £9.
Personally, she should have charged more, she was excellent. I was sorry to leave, but wanted herd turnout and guaranteed winter turnout everyday. Now pay the princely sum of £10 a week per horse.
 
horserider said:
Now pay the princely sum of £10 a week per horse.
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£10 a week!!! is that for a stable as well?

If it cost a £1000 to build a stable, it would take almost 2 years at that rate to pay it off and that doesn't include water, elec, Buss rates, Ins and rent/mortgage and just normal up keep of the place!!!

even the prices at your last place like you said were under priced, £5 phr schooling, who earns less than £5phr!!
 
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horserider said:
Now pay the princely sum of £10 a week per horse.
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£10!!!! Just out of curiosity, what do you get facilities wise for £10 a week, and is the upkeep of the yard (fencing, stables, harrowing/rolling/spraying of fields etc) satisfactory?

I don't understand how people can charge so little and properly run a livery yard, starting to wonder if I should cut down on the upkeep of my yard and slash my prices, that way I might actually make a living!!
 
I used to be on a yard (about 7 year ago though!) that was £7 a week! Including stable and field. But it was DIY in every sense! You had to do your own fencing, there was no lights, occasionally water from a bowser when it was filled up, footpaths through the fields and nobody lived on site. But it had fantastic hacking and despite the difficulties with fences, lights etc it was unbelivably cheap!

Now i'm on a perfect yard (it actually is!). I've been there nearly 18 months. We have large stables, manage, turnout groups in whatever you prefer (mine both get to go out together in their own field), 24/7 turnout in summer and all day turnout in winter everyday, its all electric fencing! Theres hacking, trailer/lorry parking, kitchen, very helpful YO who do loads for us. They will help you out if your stuck and did them during the bad snow, without charging us a penny!

Its £36 for my horse and £30 for my pony in winter and £20 for both in summer, which includes feed, change rugs and turnout in the morning and ad lib hay/haylage and straw. And its excellent quality stuff too!

After being at a number of livery yards with all sorts of problems, so happy to find this yard would much rather pay extra and get better service and facilites. Interesting the £7 a week yard was hardly ever full (although tbh it could have been from a lack of advertising) whereas the one i'm on now is nearly always full and have a waiting list.
 
I must be extremely lucky...

I have part livery for £74 per week - she is turned out, mucked out, fed, watered, hayed, brought in etc etc... all hard feed, hay/haylage, bedding etc included! Indoor school, outdoor school, cross country and miles of off road hacking :) I am also lucky I have a yard owner who will literally bendover backwards to make sure all on the yard is running smoothly and in working order :D
 
T-Bag said:
£10 a week!!! is that for a stable as well?

If it cost a £1000 to build a stable, it would take almost 2 years at that rate to pay it off and that doesn't include water, elec, Buss rates, Ins and rent/mortgage and just normal up keep of the place!!!

even the prices at your last place like you said were under priced, £5 phr schooling, who earns less than £5phr!!
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The stable is optional at £2.50 a week. Its a very basic yard but fab from the horses point of view- acres of grazing, open barns for shelter, automatic toughs and electricity.

Who would school for £5 ? Very keen aspiring dressage rider (YO's daughter) wanting to get as many rides/experience as possible.
 
FaldingwoodLivery said:
£10!!!! Just out of curiosity, what do you get facilities wise for £10 a week, and is the upkeep of the yard (fencing, stables, harrowing/rolling/spraying of fields etc) satisfactory?

I don't understand how people can charge so little and properly run a livery yard, starting to wonder if I should cut down on the upkeep of my yard and slash my prices, that way I might actually make a living!!
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I pay £120per month - For this you get a stable, individual paddock, outdoor school with awful lights, unlimited hay & straw(I buy shavings) and you can also park your trailer or lorry free. As I said earlier, nothing gets fixed ie leaky roofs, taps, fencing etc., etc., and there is no help for your horse if you need to go somewhere. The only reason I'm still there is connvenience as its just across the road. I am looking to move to a place where its £45per week DIY and it has everything even a rug heater room :) but most important someone can look after my horse if I have to go away.
 
Amazing how livery costs havent really changed much over the years in this local area.

In the mid 70's my mum paid £5 per week grass livery for my 12.2, living in a herd of 12 - 18.
If a stable was needed (such as for vet/illness etc), then it was £1 a night to include straw bedding.
We got our own land in the late 70's & when we left DIY it was then £7 per week (or a £1 a day)

Fast forwards to mid/late 1980's & I was charging £20 for DIY - including stable, fodder storage & very well kept paddocks (post & rail & electric too) - hacking brilliant & no need to ever do roadwork unless you chose to.

Leap on into 2005/present - and I was charging £25 for the same facilities as I was in the mid 1980's! :rolleyes:

Livery cost has never kept up with inflation. I've let my last livery go, despite having room but am happier with just my 2 there now.
 
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