Why is nothing in the horse world ever simple!

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littlen

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Argh I am having a nightmare with my horse and dont know what to do. I am at a loss and everything I try causes more problems.

So anyway my horse got low grade (borderline) laminitus this summer (a complete shock as he has never had a weight or lami problem before). I have tried everything and nothing has helped him loose weight. He is in a field with no grass, with a grazing muzzle on, and he was being ridden often on advice of vet and no weight came off at all.

The grazing muzzle rubbed his face raw. He seems miserable and is unable to defend himself any longer from field mates and so is coming in with bite wounds. His coat seems duller (or maybe this is winter fluff?) and he seems lethargic, as though he just cant be bothered to be ridden anymore. When he is ridden he is nappy, and takes not a blind bit of notice. He just does not seem like my happy horse any more and he looks awful due to being overweight, having marks on him and rubbing wounds and being very grumpy. I have had vet out numerous times who has said theres nothing wrong with him and who am i to argue with a proffessional.

He is barefoot, but has become slightly lame (well footsore) over surfaces such as stones meaning i can no longer ride him on hacks and he hates schooling. The vet has suggested this is due to him being overweight and possibly having remnants of LGL. The vet suggested riding as a form of weight loss to prevent another low grade attack, as the lami attack is now gone and its all about managing him so he does not have another, but how can i excersise a horse that is footsore over certain surfaces. I must stress he is 100% sound over sand/grass/roads. He has no pedal bone rotations etc as it was a low grade lami and he has been xrayed to be on the safe side. It was more a flare than a full blown lami attack.

So i have then been given the options of shoeing or hoof boots, both of which have cons and I fear are just masking the problem. Farrier said leave barefoot and try boots instead but boots dont appeal to me really but then again i fear shoes may cost a fortune and cause more problems. Other liveries at my yard are horrified at the thought of me putting shoes on him, as they are all barefoot fanatics and all seem to believe that shoes will make him worse. I dont know what to believe really as if shoes will make him comfy i might just have to go for it?
I have contacted a barefoot trimmer who has said he will come have a look, but im wary since I know these people are not regulated and I dont want just anyone having a go at his feet.

I am seriously concidering giving up as I am a novice owner and dont know what to do next!! I have never had to deal with so many problems and I fear people are going to think i am neglecting my horse as he does look so sad and miserable and i dont know where to start. I have taken all the advice from farrier, vet and I have even contacted a phisio, dentist and barefoot trimmer none of which have helped.

I dont know where I am going with this, just suppose im hoping someone can offer some constructive advice i suppose
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Crumbs, sounds like you're having a tough ol' time. Please don't give up though.

One thing that struck me when I read your post is that neither of you seem very happy where you are. Is a move possible? It might seem like a drastic thing to do but it could result in happiness for both parties.

As for boots, my aunt has old macs for her Fell pony who is a bit of a chicken on stones and such but he doesn't need to be shod.

I wouldn't like to say whether boots or shoes or neither would be an option but I think if it was me, I'd like to try, just to cover my back. As trial and error often results in a result...

I don't really know what else to say but please don't give up. There are loads of members here that may be able to help
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Give your horsey a hug and a kiss and tell him you're trying to do everything to make him happy and have a ((hug)) for yourself as well.

Kat xx
 
Does he have to have a grazing muzzle on? Some ponies and horses just don't cope with grazing muzzles. How long does he have it on for? Could he go in a paddock with a companion? It sounds like you are both having a bit of a rough time. If he is just 'footy' over rough ground, boots can help or keratex is good for hardening feet up. One of mine has rubbish feet and keratex helped him a lot.

Don't give up though, there are solutions, it's just finding the right system to work for him and for you while managing him against laminitus.
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Grey welshies often have a pre-disposition towards lami, cushings, insulin resistance, etc. Go back to your vets and make it clear you don't want a miserable, half-sound pony. Get them to tell you all the options for foot care, management regime, tests for under-lying causes of laminitis and medication to control it.

Try everything, and I hope something works for you and your pony gets better. I hate people being left in limbo like this, especially when the pony is unhappy and sore. They need to fix it or help you give up IMO.
 
Thank you Kat,


Our livery yard is okay, i am able to manage him well and he is happy enough. He is however a very submissive horse and as a result has been bullied at every yard he has ever been at. At our current yard I am able to turn him out in a small group and he is the most settled he has ever been with his 2 little friends, although he is bottom horse and does get the odd bite or kick which leaves a mark. I do believe this would happen whereever we are though! I dont mind the yard, although people do interfere alot they are friendly, its just when you are a novice its hard to know who to believe as everyone is a so called expert!

I thought about old macs, and would like to maybe try a pair but I am way that i may spend £100 and then he wont get on with them, or they wont fit and then ive wasted more money. But then again to shoe him would also cost alot so its a catch 22 and theres a chance it could make him worse?


I have been spending time with him to try and help but he is still miserable and I cant enjoy him when he is in pain.
 
He is probably sad if hes being bullied, too. Can you leccy fence a bit of field for him so he doesn't have to be out with the bullies but can still see other horses? I am a shoeing fanatic, but would recoomend you try shoes, people have been using them for a long time (tell your 'barefoot' fans).
Best of luck
 
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Thank you Kat,


Our livery yard is okay, i am able to manage him well and he is happy enough. He is however a very submissive horse and as a result has been bullied at every yard he has ever been at. At our current yard I am able to turn him out in a small group and he is the most settled he has ever been with his 2 little friends, although he is bottom horse and does get the odd bite or kick which leaves a mark. I do believe this would happen whereever we are though! I dont mind the yard, although people do interfere alot they are friendly, its just when you are a novice its hard to know who to believe as everyone is a so called expert!

I thought about old macs, and would like to maybe try a pair but I am way that i may spend £100 and then he wont get on with them, or they wont fit and then ive wasted more money. But then again to shoe him would also cost alot so its a catch 22 and theres a chance it could make him worse?


I have been spending time with him to try and help but he is still miserable and I cant enjoy him when he is in pain.

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Unfortunately, I've found that at most yards there always one or two who claim to be experts but... you know... I know I'm in no way an expert, at all, nope, and probably won't ever be one.

Just aside, you keep saying you're a novice owner but from reading you post, it's clear you have your horses best interests at heart and you're doing everything you can and also finding out lots more on your journey. So stop putting yourself down misses!

What area are you in? It may be possible to borrow a pair of old macs or buy them second hand. I can always put you in touch with my aunt and you can see if you can borrow hers?!

As for shoeing, it could be worth a try...?

I know where you are coming from. My friend has a little Welsh pony (he's her kid's pony) who I ride when he's being a s0d as he does take advantage of the kids. I am slightly on the tall side for him though and I am a bit funny about riding him anywhere but the field (which is where he is happiest). He has cushings and is very very well managed to try and prevent lami happening and although he still loves coming out of the field and going for a good ol' blast in the countryside, I won't actually ride him until we're on the soft ground... For me though, that's ok because he's not mine and I'm really doing my friend a favour. So I can see why you're in a pickle because you're an owner, if you get me?

Keep your chin up
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I would check with the vet and if he says yes, then shoe him. My lami pony would be permanently lame without shoes.

Managing laminitis is difficult and getting the weight off often seems impossible. Fortunately cooler nights will be here soon so that will help burn off some extra calories and if you could bring him off the grass for part of the day and feed him soaked hay that might cheer him up abit.

I gave up with the grazing muzzle with mine because he didn't like it and like yours it made him miserable.
 
id be tempted to try some boots, get his feet measured up, then hunt on ebay etc, hoof boots dont tend to lose a lot of value, so even if you spend £100 and then decided they werent for you, i personally think its a better option than spending at least £60 on shoes and worry that the shoeing its self could cause more damage.

im not actually a bare foot or hoof boot fan, but if i had to think about the 2 options this would be they way id try it,
 
He has had a grazing muzzle on for around 12-15 hours a day for the past 3 months with not a sign of weight loss. It rubbed his face to the point that he had red raw sores and I ended up fencing a smaller area off which has little grass on it, yet he is still fat. He is fenced off with the 2 most submissive ponies I could find and still gets the odd kick. I would put him on his own but he paces even if he can see a horse on the other side of the fence.


I am certainly concidering just putting shoes on. Even if its just fronts for now, but with it coming into winter i dont know whether it would be a wasted effort as I will be riding less and there will also be less grass so his soreness would go down and he may well be okay until summer. Hence thinking of boots for now so i can take them off when he is in the field where he is sound, and if it continues into next summer and boots dont help then i can just shoe. He has fantastic feet despite the lami and I dont want to ruin them if that makes sense!?

Old macs seem like the most likley option and I very nearly bought a pair until a barefoot trimmer told me they are cr*p and cause strain on the legs etc which put me off. Some others at the yard use them so i could ask to trial theres if they are the right size (thanks Kat for the offer though!), im worried i might measure them wrong and get the wrong size!

Im on the fence with regards to shoeing, i believe its a choice based on the individual feet concerned but other liveries are all for barefoot, out 24/7 without rugs and all that sort of thing and say shoeing will make the lami worse. The farrier and vet says its personal choice but i dont have a preference!
My farrier is actually rubbish anyway (as are all around here) and Im scared ill shoe him and farrier wont come out to put them back on or something like that, wheras now if hes a few days late it dosent really matter!

I have tried to bring him in. Unfortunatley he is a bad weaver and box walker and the stress of being in without a companion triggers the lami so its not really an option to bring him in for part of the day. He comes in at night in winter but only because im able to bring a shetland in with him, who isnt available during the summer as he is on loan. He also eats his straw bed and so isnt really being starved so it makes little difference.

Thanks again everyone i really appreciate it it really is helping me to look at all the options.
 
OK - a few little things struck me from your posts. As someone else has said, some horses don't cope with grazing muzzles and if it's making him sore he's not going to be a happy boy. That said, you have got to restrict his grazing, how small is your fenced off area? and how little grass is there? My restricted grazing is a large field with loads of ponies and the grass is really, really short and bare in places.

You might find talking to some of the feed companies useful. Teresa Hollands at Dodson & Horrell is fantastic if you can get hold of her (via their helpline). If he's eating very, very little his body may be effectively hanging onto the fat as it thinks he's being starved (which is what happens to wild, native ponies in winter basically...there's very little food available so their bodies adapt accordingly).

If you can stable him at night in winter (or now?), I really recommend soaking his hay for 24 hours and feeding it ad lib - this did wonders for my fatty pony who has lost 100kg. You may need to clip him and under-rug him in winter too, that will help with weight loss.

If you can get him comfy on his feet (I can't help RE the shoeing as don't know about that) you can work on power-walking, really get him marching on, as that's fantastic for buring fat!

Hope all that makes sense, sorry for the essay!
 
Hi,

We have a lami pony. Have found the best way to manage him is one day and night in the stable, and one day and night in the field. When in, soak the day hay overnight and the night hay during the day - that way he gets the eating action he needs, but not the calories. When out, we leave the muzzle off because he can't get the hang of it and due to the day and night in the stable, he doens't get too much grass.

The grass will/is going through its Autumn change, but after this month there shouldn't be enough sugar in it to cause a problem.

When we tried leaving lami pony out in a paddock, he jumped out of it
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Daughter rides him at least every other day. If he wasn't such a g!t to lunge he'd be lunged every alternate day.

As to shoeing, others have said more than I know
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. With LL we have him shod in front as it's his front feet that feel the stones, his hinds don't seem to mind them. We're neither here nor there re shoes or barefoot - have three neds and one is shod all round, one in front only, and one has never been shod, it's all horses for courses
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Good luck hun. hang on in here and keep at it, you'll find the right way forward
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Thanks to both of you,

The grazing field is quite large but bare, there is a herd of 12 in there which keeps it all pretty bare. The grazing looks of poor quality to myself but then again I am no expert, it is sort of yellowy in colour and is pretty dry/patchy although in some areas its still a little long but is yellowy in colour. Its certainly no longer lush and green! His fenced off area is within this larger paddock and is poor quality grazing.

Currently he is fed a tiny handful of Happy Hoof which was reccomended for lami ponies with some suppliments. He also has full access to a mineral lick.

I concidered clipping him, because when he is working he is sweating particulally under the armpits so I thought maybe i would clip along the neck and under the girth area (dont know name sorry) but didnt know if it was a good idea as ive ever clipped and he isnt massively hairy. I was also worried about him being cold in winter.

He is a g!t to ride and lunge which makes it difficult to get much done especially as i work full time. I thought about a sharer but didnt think it would be fair to someone if they wernt able to ride due to him being sore. He has also become nappy due to i think not wanting to go out for fear of standing on a stone lol, well he has always been nappy when leaving herd but not this badly.


I wish i could just have someone say HE MUST BE SHOD and then the decision would be made easy for me, but i dont know what to do for the best and i am tempted to wait it out another few months until winter and see how he is going, once the grass dies and the weight drops the condition might ease enough so that he can cope barefoot or with just boots.

Thanks again everyone for your support.
 
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