Why isnt there Government funding for BHS exams but there is for NVQ? Makes you think

[yaddowshad]

Why is it the Government does not help with funding for BHS exams but it does for NVQs?

Why are some very large training centres moving away from BHS exams to NVQ?

Employers are now choosing candidates with NVQs over BHS because NVQ students have to carry out every task and answer every question to pass. Its luck of the draw on a BHS exam as to what you will have to answer sometimes not much at all.

 

[galaxy]

Why is it the Government does not help with funding for BHS exams but it does for NVQs? There are plenty of qualifications with no gov funding.

Why are some very large training centres moving away from BHS exams to NVQ? My personal feeling (knowing the local college to here) is because the colleges were not managing to get their student through their BHS exams to AI. I don't know 1 person who went to our local college who passed their stage 3.

Employers are now choosing candidates with NVQs over BHS because NVQ students have to carry out every task and answer every question to pass. Its luck of the draw on a BHS exam as to what you will have to answer sometimes not much at all. I would totally dispute this!!! I don't know ANYONE who would employ someone who has come out of one of these colleges with the NVQ. They know the theory but they have to hands on experience.

I am a freelance AI and am constantly getting job offers through the post and email locally and from abroad. The BHS system is a worldwide respected qualification.

 

[Kat]

Why has Yaddowshad got such a downer on BHS exams???

 

[chickeninabun]

Slightly off topic but I was justing looking at the funding options from a local well-known agricultural college and saw this:

"UNDER 19?
Both tuition and registration are FREE.

19 OR OVER?
TUITION FEES
You do not have to pay tuition fees if:

• You are taking your first full Level 2 qualification
e.g. you want to take NVQ Level 2, NPTC or (First)
Diploma or a similar qualification, because you
do not already have the equivalent of five GCSEs
at grade C or above. *Fair Enough*

• You are taking your first full Level 3 qualification
and are under 25
e.g. you want to take NVQ Level 3, Extended
(National) Diploma or a similar qualification
because you do not already have the equivalent
of two A levels. *Fair Enough*

• You receive means-tested (income based) benefits
Please contact us for details of benefits which
qualify. (Please note, benefits which are not
means tested do not entitle you to free tuition). *Fair Enough*

• You are unwaged and a dependant of someone
on a means tested benefit. *Fair Enough*

• You are an asylum seeker. **WHAT THE ****!!!**

If none of the above apply, you need to pay tuition
fees."

How unfair is that?!?!?

 

[yaddowshad]

Why is it the Government does not help with funding for BHS exams but it does for NVQs? There are plenty of qualifications with no gov funding.

Why are some very large training centres moving away from BHS exams to NVQ? My personal feeling (knowing the local college to here) is because the colleges were not managing to get their student through their BHS exams to AI. I don't know 1 person who went to our local college who passed their stage 3.

Employers are now choosing candidates with NVQs over BHS because NVQ students have to carry out every task and answer every question to pass. Its luck of the draw on a BHS exam as to what you will have to answer sometimes not much at all. I would totally dispute this!!! I don't know ANYONE who would employ someone who has come out of one of these colleges with the NVQ. They know the theory but they have to hands on experience.

I am a freelance AI and am constantly getting job offers through the post and email locally and from abroad. The BHS system is a worldwide respected qualification.

Could you name the other equestrian qualifications (commonly offered at colleges and equestrian centres) that the Govt doesnt fund? As they fund NVQ, ABRS and not BHS,

If qualified BHS training centres are pushing NVQs opposed to BHS qualifications something is wrong.

The equestrian centres are not colleges and pupils work with the horses all day studying for their NVQ so they get exceptional on the job training.

Well done on being an AI I am actually higher than you in qualification (dont know why you mentioned your AI status unless you feel it gives plausability to your statement) I just want to know about the funding.

 

[yaddowshad]

Why has Yaddowshad got such a downer on BHS exams???

I will tell you exactly why because they are bias and F.U.B.A.R (look it up on google as im not translating it on this forum).

Its about time people started to stand up for their grievences.

I want to know why the government wont fund BHS exams but will fund NVQs in equestrian studies if the BHS is all that.

Forget about the under 19s as all courses everywhere are free for them.

 

[galaxy]

Could you name the other equestrian qualifications (commonly offered at colleges and equestrian centres) that the Govt doesnt fund? As they fund NVQ, ABRS and not BHS,

If qualified BHS training centres are pushing NVQs opposed to BHS qualifications something is wrong.

The equestrian centres are not colleges and pupils work with the horses all day studying for their NVQ so they get exceptional on the job training.

Well done on being an AI I am actually higher than you in qualification (dont know why you mentioned your AI status unless you feel it gives plausability to your statement) I just want to know about the funding.

No I did not state I was an AI for any other reason than to say why I get job offers through the post which I wouldn't (and everyone else on the reg of instructors!) if the BHS is such a terrible system!

I meant there are plenty of qualification outside the equestrain industry where you get no gov funding. Unless you are means tested for example, you have to pay for your degree at Uni.

Around here the "equestrain centres" that run the NVQ courses are called colleges.... and the students that go there refer to themselves as "going to college". Yes the spend all day working around the horses. But we will have to agree to disagree about their standard when they leave. All I can refer to is my own experience and peoples feelings in the area... BHS qual people and non BHS qual people.... who don't and won't employ these people when they come out of college as they feel they are not useful in the workplace.

 

[Steorra]

Agree with the above, the BHS qualifications are known and respected almost everywhere.

However, NVQs are gcse or a level equivalents, depending on which level you take. The exams are marked by a govt regulated body, and different grades have UCAS point ratings, which mean that universities accept them as meeting entry requirements if a good enough grade is achieved. Not only do students get govt funding but the yards / colleges that offer them do too. Moreover, if a university offers a student with two a level equivalents a place, they also get funding.

Basically, because of the push to keep young people in education longer and to enable them to go to university, there are incentives offered to places where students can do NVQs. Because the BHS is more or less self regulating with regard to it's exam marking, and because the exams are not a level equivalents, there are no incentives offered.

That said, from the little I know the BHS exams are though of more highly within the industry, and for someone with no interest in taking the academic route are still a good way to break into teaching.

 

[Kat]

I don't think NVQs are necessarily funded.

For example as someone earning my own wage, qualified to degree level already and over 25 I don't think I could get funding for any sort of course at all whether equestrian or otherwise. I know when my DH looked into retraining in his late twenties he couldn't get any help for an NVQ/BTEC/Apprentice scheme or similar, and he was looking into getting a "trade" in a shortage area as jobs were short in his previous profession.

Had he completed his equestrian NVQ he would have had to have paid for it. As it was he didn't get the final certificate having done all the work because he couldn't afford to.

I think the answer with equestrian centres if often more to do with the amount of cheap labour they can get and for how long rather than the credibility of the exams. Hence why back in the day lots of yards had YTS people working for them.

 

[Steorra]

Double post several minutes apart?!

 

[yaddowshad]

No I did not state I was an AI for any other reason than to say why I get job offers through the post which I wouldn't (and everyone else on the reg of instructors!) if the BHS is such a terrible system!

I meant there are plenty of qualification outside the equestrain industry where you get no gov funding. Unless you are means tested for example, you have to pay for your degree at Uni.

Around here the "equestrain centres" that run the NVQ courses are called colleges.... and the students that go there refer to themselves as "going to college". Yes the spend all day working around the horses. But we will have to agree to disagree about their standard when they leave. All I can refer to is my own experience and peoples feelings in the area... BHS qual people and non BHS qual people.... who don't and won't employ these people when they come out of college as they feel they are not useful in the workplace.

Well around here we have multimillion pound BHS equestrian centres prefering to teach NVQ and these places are run by the highest qualified BHS instructors. So whats going on?

 

[Kat]

Basically, because of the push to keep young people in education longer and to enable them to go to university, there are incentives offered to places where students can do NVQs. Because the BHS is more or less self regulating with regard to it's exam marking, and because the exams are not a level equivalents, there are no incentives offered.

I may be wrong but I think that the BHS are regulated by OFFQUAL. I think the destinction is likely to be because to get the NVQ you have to be "in education or on a recognised training scheme" while doing it because of the continuous assessment. This means that you aren't "unemployed" for the purposes of the government statistics.

Whereas for the BHS exams you can if you wish rock up to the exam on the day with no training behind you, having been claiming JSA for a year beforehand and counting on the unemployment statistics

JSA is the real reason the government favours things like NVQs and pushes to get 50% of all school leavers into university whether we need that many graduates or not and whether they are doing a useful course or not. It is also why you don't normally get funding for the OU.

I like the fact that BHS do not require you to be on a course to do the exams, it makes it possible for people doing other work or study to do the exams and means that you don't waste time and money if you have already trained to that level.

 

[galaxy]

So this place is purely a RS type place rather than like an agricultural college?

No idea why they've given up on the BHS system. Why don't you ask them?

The agricultural college near me has stopped the BHS exams and I purely believe it's because they weren't getting their students through them in the 3 years they were there to AI level.

 

[*hic*]

It's a few years since I did my NVQs but then the reason riding schools were pushing them instead of BHS Stages was that they got well paid for each student they signed up, some of them then made additional money on top for charging for riding lessons which the government had already paid for.

The whole thing was a joke - the group I was in consisted of two RS employees who had no other qualifications and were probably who it was aimed at, two non-working mums of teenage children who were nervous riders to say the least, two retired IT specialists both with previous international careers: that was for the NVQ 1, one of whom already had taken PC B Test which is considerably more advanced.

The portfolios were fun to put together: we set up each exercise, say pressure washing a stable, and then all took turns to be photographed with the kit and the equipment on. The stable was never actually washed. Catching and bringing in? Pony was taken from stable and we were each photographed leading it part of the way to the field. The pony was then let go and we were all photographed with the pony in the distance.

NVQ 2 was even dafter - some of the previous bunch had dropped out due to the riding (one of those had been passed on her riding although she literally got on the pony, burst into tears, and got off again at the assessment). We now had a headmistress and another teacher in the group. "Work experience and on-the-job training" for me involved coming in one day a week, mucking out seven and grooming and tacking up four for the YO to ride. Then I went home and rode / exercised my own five I'd mucked out and fed before going to the yard. Those with proper jobs actually never did ANY work experience.


I just had a quick flick through my NVQ portfolios - most of the images have been recycled from the NVQ1 to 2. A few more were staged and photographed as previously. The portfolios were then assessed by someone with NO qualifications whatsoever, before being signed off.

Don't get me wrong, it was a laugh and we did it because we knew the YO was getting well paid but the people who took it were NOT those at whom it should have been targetted, those who took it who needed to do it were often the weakest and had their evidence (plaiting for example) done by someone else. It is actually fairly tricky handing over plaits partway done to someone else so that it looks like they are doing them but it was easier than teaching them how to plait.

The materials used at that time had various inaccuracies in them - the word "not" was missed out on a couple of occasions which somewhat altered the thrust of what was supposed to be being learnt!


It was a standing joke with the "College" assessors that NVQ stood for "Not Very Qualified" and I have to say that being slightly involved with organising PC training and examinations at Branch level now I'd put the examining and care to ensure that candidates had reached standard as far above that attempted by NVQs.

 

[Steorra]

Katt - you are right, the funding only applies if you have no previous qualifications above gcse level. Depending on parental income and age, there may be no funding for the student. There is, however, funding for the school, college or yard.

Credibility of the exams scarcely gets a look in. The colleges want to offer recognised a level equivalents because they get funding. The universities want to offer places to students with these qualifications because they get funding

 

[pootleperkin]

I have wondered for quite a while now why the BHS doesn't try and get its qualifications recognised by someone like City and Guilds and then traning centres will recieve per student payments from the Goverment as well as other benefits for all?

 

[Sparkles]

I had my BHS exams [did up to stage 3] and training all paid for whilst doing my diploma at college.

If that makes a difference.

 

[Tinkerbee]

Slightly off topic but I was justing looking at the funding options from a local well-known agricultural college and saw this:

"UNDER 19?
Both tuition and registration are FREE.

19 OR OVER?
TUITION FEES
You do not have to pay tuition fees if:

• You are taking your first full Level 2 qualification
e.g. you want to take NVQ Level 2, NPTC or (First)
Diploma or a similar qualification, because you
do not already have the equivalent of five GCSEs
at grade C or above. *Fair Enough*

• You are taking your first full Level 3 qualification
and are under 25
e.g. you want to take NVQ Level 3, Extended
(National) Diploma or a similar qualification
because you do not already have the equivalent
of two A levels. *Fair Enough*

• You receive means-tested (income based) benefits
Please contact us for details of benefits which
qualify. (Please note, benefits which are not
means tested do not entitle you to free tuition). *Fair Enough*

• You are unwaged and a dependant of someone
on a means tested benefit. *Fair Enough*

• You are an asylum seeker. **WHAT THE ****!!!**

If none of the above apply, you need to pay tuition
fees."

How unfair is that?!?!?

You evidently don't know what asylum seeker means.

 

[charlie76]

Here at the equestrian centre I run we encourage all of our students to take bhs exams. Many of the students are school leavers and struggle with the exam system and struggle to learn enough knowledge to go down thebhs system alone. Therefore we enrol them on a nvq course to learn many aspects of the bhs exam but on a more coursework basis. They then feel more prepared for the bhs exam and gain a qualification along the way. The nvq is funded for the under 19' s and we also had funding for a while for over for bhs exams through train to gain for all ages. We run through Haddon training. I am taking my Equitation and coaching certificate in Oct at a cost of just under