Why it might be time to stop riding horses

[SEL]

@PurBee nutrition is an interesting concept I hadn't considered when I first read her paper but I did think those results should be fed back into saddle fit. So many block the proper movement of the scapula - so is it riding them that causes the issue or the equipment we use.

 

[Janique]

I hate it when people say horses are athletes....

They are horses first, they need companionship, food, and freedom.

Yes, in the past, horses were working animals, in wars, farms, police and so on but now ?

Of couse, it's perfectly possible to ride a horse without doing him any arm, what i don't like is top sport when only money matters....

 

[Skib]

Yes, in the past, horses were working animals, in wars, farms, police and so on but now ?

Yes of course. Police, Army , Tourism, riding schools and hacking centres. All the mares Ihave ridden havbe been working animals.
But also dearly loced. Pets in the way most dogs are pets?

 

[Darcey69]

I hate it when people say horses are athletes....

They are horses first, they need companionship, food, and freedom.

Yes, in the past, horses were working animals, in wars, farms, police and so on but now ?

Of couse, it's perfectly possible to ride a horse without doing him any arm, what i don't like is top sport when only money matters....

But horses are athletes. They are proficient in physical exercise - in fact they love to move. It is also so disingenuous to say you don't like things because "money matters". Money matters hugely to me or I'd have nowhere to live. It doesn't lead to horse abuse. In fact most horses owned by wealthy people live a better life I would say as they can afford quality land and staff. Look at J P McManus owning a huge farm with his retired horses. Istabacq was retired for twenty years until he died at 32. Also wealthy people owe several good horses so there's a lot less pressure to keep one going. Even multi-millionaires mostly lose money from horses I'm sure, so it's not to make money they make their horse decisions. The majority of abuse is from people struggling financially. Then there's no vet, no food, horse keeps being ridden when it's lame etc.

 

[JFTDWS]

. The majority of abuse is from people struggling financially.

That’s one hell of a sweeping generalisation.

From my perspective, some of the worst abuses are those that are accepted in the highest levels of competition. The breeding and training of compromised animals in dressage, the issues associated with racing - where there is a tonne of money slopping around, but the horses are tools for making money, not recipients of (the benefits of) it.

There are laws and welfare institutions to protect horses whose owners fail to feed them or get them basic veterinary care. They might be imperfect, but everyone accepts that a starving, untreated injured animal is abuse. Those in high level sport are considered acceptable, even normal.

 

[Janique]

Yes, you are right, they are athletes but they don't care if they are not winning races or jumping high fences !

I am talking about horse racing in Switzerland, they keep horses in stables as they don't want them to get hurt in the paddocks,
so no turn out, even for the 2 years old.

When you ask them why, they get no turn out, they reply ' They are athletes, they need to work and win races....

My point is that horses don't care about races, jumping and so on, it seems to me that what they want is to be with friends, outside and have some freedom.

Maybe, i am wrong but they are horses first before being athletes...

Here, the racing world is terrible, mostly wealthy people owns the horses, they trust the trainers to buy for them and when they come to the yard,
they usually don't even reconise their own horses.

You could show them any horse and they wouldn't know the difference.

As long as the horse win, that's all ok but when troubles start, they get rid of the horse for peanuts usually or pts.

My 12 years old ex racer was given to me as the owners told the trainer that if no one took him, he was going to be pts, he gave trainer a week to find someone....

The horse had won the owner over 100'000 francs. When he got a tendon, that was it, it was worthless and the owner couldn't wait to get rid of him....

Time is money and i can assure you that those owners have more money than sens...

They enjoy drinking champagne and put nice and often silly hat at the races but horse welfare and well being, they don't give a s....t

I really think that a person having their own horse even if the budget is tight and they are struggling for money give more care and love to their horses
than those rich owner.

 

[lannerch]

So if we do not ride horses eventually there will be no horses .Not many people are realistically prepared to keep a horse purely as a pet all its life.
And before you all shout I do myself have a field ornament my much loved ex eventer ( my profile pic ) who served me well, but due to navicular had to be retired.
But I wouldn’t have bought him at 3 like I did to be a pet , as loved as he is that’s one very expensive labour intensive pet!
If we do not ride horses eventually horses will be no more .
They will have no value as they have no job unless they join the food chain so will not be bred .
So perhaps the article should be titled is it time we gave up on horses and got a dog instead ?

 

[Burnttoast]

So if we do not ride horses eventually there will be no horses .Not many people are realistically prepared to keep a horse purely as a pet all its life.
And before you all shout I do myself have a field ornament my much loved ex eventer ( my profile pic ) who served me well, but due to navicular had to be retired.
But I wouldn’t have bought him at 3 like I did to be a pet , as loved as he is that’s one very expensive labour intensive pet!
If we do not ride horses eventually horses will be no more .
They will have no value as they have no job unless they join the food chain so will not be bred .
So perhaps the article should be titled is it time we gave up on horses and got a dog instead ?

There were a lot of comments under the article saying this and it seems very telling about the utilitarian view many people have of the horse-human relationship. Given that the unridden horse is in general a lot cheaper to keep than the ridden one, it isn't as if they suddenly become unaffordable if not ridden - they just can't 'earn their keep' anymore. It's very transactional. I like horses because I like horses, in the same way that I like cats, for themselves, in all their cattishness - I'd never expect a cat to do anything for me!! And I can afford to keep an unridden horse and get a lot of pleasure from it so why wouldn't I keep one? My health won't allow it but after my current guy has gone I'd hoped to get a herd of minis. Do people not really like horses just for themselves, in fact? What else am I supposed to infer from a lot of (slightly hysterical sounding, under that article) comments that there'd be a mass horse cull the day after riding's banned?

 

[lannerch]

There were a lot of comments under the article saying this and it seems very telling about the utilitarian view many people have of the horse-human relationship. Given that the unridden horse is in general a lot cheaper to keep than the ridden one, it isn't as if they suddenly become unaffordable if not ridden - they just can't 'earn their keep' anymore. It's very transactional. I like horses because I like horses, in the same way that I like cats, for themselves, in all their cattishness - I'd never expect a cat to do anything for me!! And I can afford to keep an unridden horse and get a lot of pleasure from it so why wouldn't I keep one? My health won't allow it but after my current guy has gone I'd hoped to get a herd of minis. Do people not really like horses just for themselves, in fact? What else am I supposed to infer from a lot of (slightly hysterical sounding, under that article) comments that there'd be a mass horse cull the day after riding's banned?

I love horses but I wouldn’t keep one just as a pet it’s too much of a commitment too much work too expensive, I couldn’t justify it if it wasn’t my hobby as well .
And I suspect in that I am like the majority of horse owners so breeding horses would no longer be viable , to get a horse to 4 for example costs over 4k and probably a lot more, may be breeders on here would enlighten us how much it actually is?
Ok a mini is a lot cheaper to breed and look after but there again to see a mini is quite rare as usually they are just pets and have no job so there are not many around .
Many of us would keep their much loved horses if riding was banned , but many would not and those that did not would have them put down , the same as many horses are put down currently when they can’t be ridden , or worse sold to low end dealers who pass them from pillar to post , so yes I think there would be a mass horse cull .
And those of us that did still keep our horses how many of us would replace once they were lost .

 

[Burnttoast]

I love horses but I wouldn’t keep one just as a pet it’s too much of a commitment too much work too expensive, I couldn’t justify it if it wasn’t my hobby as well .
And I suspect in that I am like the majority of horse owners so breeding horses would no longer be viable , to get a horse to 4 for example costs over 4k and probably a lot more, may be breeders on here would enlighten us how much it actually is?
Ok a mini is a lot cheaper to breed and look after but there again to see a mini is quite rare as usually they are just pets and have no job so there are not many around .

Yes, I know that most riders/owners feel this way, but *why* is where I get a bit stuck. I like having a horse in my life, the same as my other pets. I don't feel the need to ride him (I don't feel he's ridable, although others have disagreed). And he (and my other pets) is my hobby - riding isn't, not any more. I can afford him, and I like having him around, so don't feel I need to justify what he costs me. So the only conclusion I can come to is that many people who can otherwise afford a horse don't in general like them enough to just enjoy owning one and doing the things that go along with that, in the way that you would with a pet of any other species. That's what I mean by transactional. Or maybe it's just traditional. Horses have jobs. But it doesn't have to be the case.

 

[equinerebel]

My horse is perfectly capable of being ridden, but she doesn’t do very much of it anymore cos I don’t have the time or interest that I used to have.

I still enjoy my time with her despite that. She is my last, due to rising costs, my own mental health and my conflicting views on the ethics involved, but it’s certainly not because her value to me depends on whether or not I can ride her. It never has and it never will.

To me, her value is the same as that of my house pets. I certainly wouldn’t cull her if riding became banned. Which, in all probability, it won’t and shouldn’t be used as an emotive argument to keep elite equine sports going as they currently are.

 

[Gloi]

Much of the worst abuse occurs in animals that aren't even ridden such as these this charity keeps an eye on.

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[Sanversera]

So if we do not ride horses eventually there will be no horses .Not many people are realistically prepared to keep a horse purely as a pet all its life.
And before you all shout I do myself have a field ornament my much loved ex eventer ( my profile pic ) who served me well, but due to navicular had to be retired.
But I wouldn’t have bought him at 3 like I did to be a pet , as loved as he is that’s one very expensive labour intensive pet!
If we do not ride horses eventually horses will be no more .
They will have no value as they have no job unless they join the food chain so will not be bred .
So perhaps the article should be titled is it time we gave up on horses and got a dog instead ?

I intend to keep mine only as unridden pasture pets.no unsoundness problems they are sound and healthy. It is possible to have horses and ponies just to take walks inhand and groom and enjoy being around.its not compulsory to ride.

 

[southerncomfort]

I think the point is that no one will be breeding horses just to be pets.

You can't charge several thousand pounds for a pet. And the cost of breeding a foal won't go down just because horses aren't ridden any more.

Breeding won't be financially viable any more, and I'm afraid horses would become, if not extinct, at least pretty rare.

 

[equinerebel]

You can't charge several thousand pounds for a pet.

Have you seen the prices of pedigree dogs and cats these days??

 

[southerncomfort]

Have you seen the prices of pedigree dogs and cats these days??

Yes. They are ridiculous, but not yet as high as they are for horses. Because it doesn't cost nearly as much to produce a litter of pups as it does to produce a healthy, quality foal.

 

[Nonjumper]

Cats and dogs are easy. They live at home with you, cost very little to feed, and need barely any equipment. Horses cannot possibly compare to this. Unless you are wealthy enough to own your own land keeping a horse as a pet will still cost far more than any other pet. Just as an aside until recently I bred pedigree cats and I can tell you that done properly, you'll make little to no money on a litter. God help you if you need the vet!

 

[Highmileagecob]

I can see the point of this thread, which is unless welfare improves to take account of a horse's actual needs, then Joe Public will start to complain. The amount of money sloshing around top level race horses and competition horses precludes them from having a normal herd life. They are there to make money, and cannot be allowed to sustain an injury that could be prevented. And all respect to any trainer who puts the horse first and allows as normal a life as possible.

 

[Caol Ila]

Being perfectly honest, I would not buy a horse to just be a big expensive pet. As much as I like them. Obviously if something happened to a ridden horse and they became a field ornament, that’s life and it sucks and you deal, but I would not buy one for that purpose. Unless I had my own land but I don’t. I bet many people feel that way whether they admit it or not!

 

[magicmoments]

There were a lot of comments under the article saying this and it seems very telling about the utilitarian view many people have of the horse-human relationship. Given that the unridden horse is in general a lot cheaper to keep than the ridden one, it isn't as if they suddenly become unaffordable if not ridden - they just can't 'earn their keep' anymore. It's very transactional. I like horses because I like horses, in the same way that I like cats, for themselves, in all their cattishness - I'd never expect a cat to do anything for me!! And I can afford to keep an unridden horse and get a lot of pleasure from it so why wouldn't I keep one? My health won't allow it but after my current guy has gone I'd hoped to get a herd of minis. Do people not really like horses just for themselves, in fact? What else am I supposed to infer from a lot of (slightly hysterical sounding, under that article) comments that there'd be a mass horse cull the day after riding's banned?

In my case, I have disagree. When I no longer rode my horse, she was not significantly cheaper to keep. Yes, no saddle fitter, less physio, but otherwise the same, still livery, still the same feed, same foot care, vet care, and same care from me. I didn't compete, have transport, or have loads of lessons, or even any in the last year. There will be other people like me, who have similar, ridden to unridden expenses, time and care.

 

[equinerebel]

It’s interesting that, to a lot of people, horses are owned for their purpose.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I’m another who wouldn’t buy and keep a horse just to be a pet. If I want a pet I’ll have a dog/cat/degu/guinea pig etc Horses are too expensive and to hard to get decent housing for to keep as pets unless you have your own land.

I buy and keep horses to be ridden, I love my horses and once they are past ridden lives then to me that’s fine they get everything they need in retirement. My horses get the best care I can afford and I can hold my head high for that.

TBH any article asking should we be riding horses to me is twaddle. Should we drive cars, should we keep pets, should we build keep building houses nobody can afford on land not suitable etc each has an argument for and against and each side will always find justifications for their stance.

Just my thoughts

 

[AutumnDays]

I do have two unridden horses... One was bought as a youngster to be my next ridden, and after starting being hacked out she had a field accident which has left her unable to be ridden. The other I bought purposely as a non ridden, because I needed a companion. I have since had to stop riding due to medical issues, so I would have kept a non ridden horse at livery, because I could afford it and I get joy from horses just being horses, however I do miss riding. I understand that many wouldn't do this, as they are expensive to keep, and the ridden/driven side of things makes the expense justifiable, so I agree with the transactional relationship comments, it does seem that people don't just get pleasure from horses for themselves, but what they can do for them. It is a tricky one, you seem to get judged no matter what you do theses days, I have been very harshly judged for keeping non ridden horses at my past livery, more so than the ones who were ridden and exhibiting behaviour that indicated pain etc. Welfare and the meeting of needs should be top priority in both groups, just because a horse isn't ridden doesn't mean it has higher welfare standards than a ridden.

 

[Caol Ila]

Finally threw up enough ad blockers to read it.

It jumped around a lot, like the writer didn't quite know what argument she wanted to make. Kind of flagged the most egregious examples of Things Going Wrong from the news but we all know it's a bigger world than that.

I did enjoy the quote from the chap who said he didn't think horses should be ridden, but then said he has to ride his because it might get laminitis if he didn't. LOL. Well, there's the crux, int it no? Given almost nobody can turn out their horses on a bazillion acres of moorland (I mean, some people, but not many), that is a big boat indeed.

As for riding being my main reason for having them, I get a feeling from the back of a horse that I get nowhere else. Not doing any other sport or anything else. And I think the relationship I have with a ridden horse is very different, closer and deeper, than non ridden. I had Hermosa for 2.5 years before I backed her, and we developed a different connection after I started riding her. There's something magical about becoming one creature moving together, like a centaur, that all the groundwork in the world can't emulate. Does it feel that way for them? Probably not. And also, who knows? Have you ever got the sense that your horse is proud to carry their human and do a job well? In any case, I try to make riding as pleasant for them as possible, 'cause it is for my selfish reasons. But it's many people's selfish reasons. Many of us want to be centaurs. And they get to explore and snack on trees in the park and occasionally do some circles.

 

[Trouper]

As an article aimed at Jo Public I thought it took quite a thoughtful approach - though it might have tried to cover too many scenarios in one piece of work. If it gets the discussion going on how horses are treated then it has my vote.

I really don't think the question is "should we be riding" but "how the hell do we educate people to keep their horses properly". I thought the comparison with enrichment programmes for zoo animals might at least register with some people who think horses can just be stabled - she says hopefully!

 

[equinerebel]

Fwiw, I don't think riding should be "banned", nor would I want to see it happen. But I do think there's a lot of room for discussion on our relationship with horses going forwards.

 

[SEL]

I’m another who wouldn’t buy and keep a horse just to be a pet. If I want a pet I’ll have a dog/cat/degu/guinea pig etc Horses are too expensive and to hard to get decent housing for to keep as pets unless you have your own land.

I buy and keep horses to be ridden, I love my horses and once they are past ridden lives then to me that’s fine they get everything they need in retirement. My horses get the best care I can afford and I can hold my head high for that.

TBH any article asking should we be riding horses to me is twaddle. Should we drive cars, should we keep pets, should we build keep building houses nobody can afford on land not suitable etc each has an argument for and against and each side will always find justifications for their stance.

Just my thoughts

I agree with your thoughts!

People abuse dogs - we don't discuss banning them. People abuse children but the papers don't run articles on how we should stop reproducing.

Should our existing regulatory bodies do a better job? Absolutely. But given a recent post was how hard it was to get the RSPCA to visit emaciated horses it isn't just the FEI who are failing.

 

[Mrs B]

In my case, I have disagree. When I no longer rode my horse, she was not significantly cheaper to keep. Yes, no saddle fitter, less physio, but otherwise the same, still livery, still the same feed, same foot care, vet care, and same care from me. I didn't compete, have transport, or have loads of lessons, or even any in the last year. There will be other people like me, who have similar, ridden to unridden expenses, time and care.

That's me too.

It takes nearly a third of my annual income to keep him on DIY and as a result, I drive a 17-year-old car, maybe eat out a few times a year, buy clothes when mine have holes in them and have had 2 holidays (plus 3 days camping) in 10 years. That is my choice. It also means he has the dentist and physio etc even if I go without.

He's 20 now, and my last one after 54 years in the saddle simply because as I get towards my older age, I cannot justify keeping another financially, even if I could afford to buy one.

If he becomes unrideable, I would have to think very long and hard about keeping him. I love him, but he is not a pet.

 

[Burnttoast]

Cats and dogs are easy. They live at home with you, cost very little to feed, and need barely any equipment. Horses cannot possibly compare to this. Unless you are wealthy enough to own your own land keeping a horse as a pet will still cost far more than any other pet. Just as an aside until recently I bred pedigree cats and I can tell you that done properly, you'll make little to no money on a litter. God help you if you need the vet!

I thought this sounds obviously true but when I worked it out my pony costs less to keep than the kitten (a lot of early vet bills then a lot of good food, only now reducing amount to adult levels) and a lot less than a kitten and two senior cats with health issues. A lot less. About half. The chickens cost quite a bit in feed as well. And when I trimmed the ponies myself he was even cheaper to keep. I pay a small rent for the field (I share it) but he eats grass only and a small amount of hay (annual hay bill a max of £300), one vet visit a year since he's been retired, for teeth, jabs and bloods, and worm tests. They're all different, and amounts of food and vet care will vary, but small animals, particularly carnivores, cost a fortune to keep properly these days.

 

[JFTDWS]

To be fair the “should we keep dogs (/cats/other animals) as pets” debate does exist. It’s ongoing - from animal rights activists, climate activists and people who have (very reasonable) concerns about the welfare standards accepted in the UK.

The horse debate is a bit different - because of the money in racing and other elite horse sports, and because we’re such a small minority (horse owners) who don’t have the best public image. It’s probably a bit more polarising than the same discussion about dogs.

I would be really sad to see riding and horse owning banned, or dying out - just as I would be sad not to be able to own a dog. But I do think there is a lot of scope for reducing the welfare compromises for high level horse sport and altering the perception about how we do what we do with our horses at grass roots.